USA resort choice

A snowHead

Sorry to be a pain, but please can I ask again about US resorts ? I'm really only keen on going so that we can ski the 'back bowls ' as intermediates. I understand from Snowheads that Vail may have the best bowls for this purpose ? I've always fancied going to Beavercreek and a friend has suggested Winter Park. Which of these would you go for ? If we were in Winter Park, how far is it to other ski resorts? Ditto Beavercreek/Vail. I only ask, because the ski areas look quite small. We do like to cover some miles on piste. Thanks
Erica

A snowHead

Hi Erica, I'm sure some others will comment on Winter Park - I know that WTFH rates it highly. It's an area, along with Jackson Hole, that I'm really keen to get to one day. *sigh*

Re: Beaver Creek/Vail. We stayed for 2 weeks in Vail a few seasons back and had a great time. You don't get the vast area that you get in the 3 Valleys but it's still a decent size. To be honest, I was a little disappointed with the back bowls. When we were there they got tracked out very quickly which I guess isn't surprising but was a shame. The Blue Sky Basin area beyond the bowls was pretty nice as well. Overall it's a very good ski area.

We skied a couple of days in Beaver Creek (30 minutes or so on a local bus IIRC) but we didn't like it as much as Vail so wouldn't rush back. However, between the 2 resorts you've got a fair bit to keep you occupied.

Another area to consider would be the Utah resorts - you can stay in Salt Lake or Park City and get to numerous resorts fairly easily - Alta, Snowbird, Park City, Canyons, Deer Valley, Solitude etc. All of them have something different to offer and makes for an interesting holiday.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

erica2004, if you're mobile a combination of Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone etc. is quite possible.

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erica2004, if you base yourself in Vail, you'll have the best options for trying different resorts in Colorado. From Winter Park, while there is a lot to ski there, if you really want to try another resort, it's maybe 1.5 hours drive - you go back to the I70, then on to Breck/Keystone/etc.
Winter Park does have some great skiing, and midweek is quiet, so even the main runs can feel like powder bowls after a good dump. Go up to Timberline for the best powder.

From Vail, you can get to Beaver, but also Copper is only about 30 minutes as well. Breckenridge/Keystone/A Basin are a bit further (as is Aspen)
Vail's back bowls can get tracked out if you're there at a busy time, but if you go to the east side - the Mongolian bowls - they tend to get tracked out the least. Also, Blue Sky Basin has some nice intermediate stuff - Cloud 9 and the Wudies. It also has "Lovers Leap" which is one of the steepest single blacks I've ever seen.

As alan has suggested, the other main option would be Utah. Within 25 minutes of Salt Lake City, you have Alta, Snowbird, Brighton and Solitude. And within 45mins of SLC, you have Park City, Deer Valley and The Canyons. Snowbasin and Sundance are not too far either.
Alta and Snowbird are linked by Mineral Basin. This is an intermediate/advanced paradise in terms of a giant powder bowl. Alta and Snowbird each have great "bowls" as well - The Ballroom at Alta, and Regulator Johnson at Snowbird are well worth it.

(PLUG TIME)
If you wanted to come to Snowbird with a few of us from here (Linds, Spyderjon, Martin Bell, Me...) and a load of ones from EpicSki, we are going there for a 4 day academy at the end of January. From there, many of us will be going on to Park City and Snowbasin for another few days.
Click on the link in my signature for more info about the EpicSki Academy. And if you do decide to go, make sure you fill out the form saying it is a snowHeads referral, as Ubrain will get a referral fee for everyone from here who goes.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

erica2004,

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

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Frosty the Snowman,
It puzzles me too. (But logic was never my specialist subject rolling eyes

). Do the lifts go the "longer but prettier" way?

Thankyou

Wear The Fox Hat, Does the ski academy cater for intermediate 42yr old women?
When is the snow at it's best (in the US)?
alan empty, I would like to go to Utah, but I'm trying to make the journey to the States as easy as possible because my husband isn't a great fan of travelling. (On a flight to Innsbruck he was heard to remark 'This is a long enough flight for a holiday') Sad

Of course, I could leave him behind Twisted Evil

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erica2004, it caters for a wide range of ages and abilities - from people in their 20s to those in their 60s. From people who have a couple of weeks under their belts, to those with a couple of decades.

Best time for snow in the US varies, but the amount is a lot more than you might see in Austria - getting 30cms falling during a day in Colorado or Utah is not uncommon (for example, Alta claims over 12m of snow fall evey season).
I would say go in February, if you want lots of powder days. If you want to take a risk, most of the locals will tell you the actual best time for skiing is late March/early April - you take a risk that you might get a bad year, but if it is a normal year, many of the resorts get a lot of snow then.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

erica2004, as for the long flights, well, you can break it with a stopover if you want, but I prefer to get it over and done. I've found the service and legroom on the transatlantic flights to be better than on the euro ones - and sometimes the movies aren't too bad either!

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Not done any of the Colorado or Utah resorts, but if you specified N. America rather than US, I'd add Whistler Blackcomb into the mix.

Wear The Fox Hat,

You know it makes sense.

stanton, Vail this season was $77 for a one day pass. Anything over 2 days and it got discounted down. Alta, where I ski a lot, was $49 for a one day pass. That's under £30.

I realise you are anti-US skiing, as are several on here, and to be honest, I can't be ar$ed arguing with you. Some of us enjoy skiing in the US, and I'm glad that a lot of people on here believe there is only one resort worth going to in the world. Please, stick to your rut, and let those of us who want to ski the world get out there and have fun outside your beloved resort.

(edited to correct Alta lift price. Also, over 80s ski for free)

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Shall we talk about accomodation?
Or food/drink prices?

Pint of beer? $4 - that's about £2.50.
4 bed room, with kitchen $55 per night - that's about £7.50 per person.

A snowHead

Erica,

Rather than dip into the US v Europe war, we can perhaps go back to your original query, which is a bit difficult to answer without some further info, basically what exactly is it you want out of this trip and perhaps as important, what are you willing to pay.

There is no doubt that getting to the US (or Canada) is a longer flight and will cost more than Europe. There is also no doubt that lift tickets (at least the window price) will be more expensive than Europe (that said there usually are deals in the week if not the weekend and certainly multi day deals). On the other hand as said you will (usually) get much better living accomodation, cheaper than Europe and the cost of living will also be cheaper (lift tickets aside).

I also assume that regardless of the above you have decided that you want to give it a try anyway.

The main centres would be Denver (for Colorado) ,Salt Lake City (for Utah and some others eg Jackson Hole after a fair drive), San Francisco (for Lake Tahoe), Los Angeles (for Mammoth), Vancouver (for Whistler) or Calgary (for Banff and others). Some are direct flights from the UK (London), some are not.

Do you want to ski one area or multiple areas. Are you willing to hire a car and drive between areas. public transport will be negligible. Are you wanting only to go to Colorado (as these are the ones you mention). What is your position on altitude problems (bear in mind a number of the Colorado resorts are very high........whereas at Whistler you sleep at 2000ft so altitude is never a problem. Likewise Tahoe resorts where at Lake level you sleep at 5500ft.

If small resorts are not for you try Whistler or Mammoth, you wont ski out those in a 7-10 trip. Either has loads of "bowl" terrain.

If you want to give more info on what you want, you will likely get more feedback

A snowHead

Wear The Fox Hat,

Im not anti US skiing far from it . I have been skiing in the US every season since my first trip in 1980 and that includes 3 full seasons in Aspen,Telluride & Sun Valley.

I,ve skied Alta on a number of occasions however Alta is a relatively small area compared to Vail or Aspen/Snowmass let alone Verbier or Three Valleys.

Re: Pint of beer? $4 - that's about £2.50 . I was in London last weekend & I paid less than that !

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

stanton, yes, but what would you pay in Courchevel, or St Anton?

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Colin,
OK, I am having sleepless nights picking a resort - any resort, either in Europe or USA. We have our own business, so time away (at one go) is limited. Weekly holidays are ideal, but for long haul we could stretch to 9-10days. It doesn't matter how much the holiday costs, it's our time that is budgeted!! I like nice long groomed runs and I also like playing a bit off piste, but haven't done much. What I really want to do is have some soft snow to practice in, so that by the end of the season I could ski reasonably well off-piste. The gradients of the slopes (and the depth of the snow) that I've skied in (off piste) in Lech (particularly) has been too great. I've heard (from Snowheads) that the 'bowls' in the States are good for this purpose.
I thought about Winter Park because it is close to Denver, but (according to guide books etc) it is a small ski area. 2nd problem - husband thinks Courchevel is a small ski area Puzzled

I wondered if the other Colorado resorts were far from Winter Park, so that we could drive there if necessary.
I have always thought Vail/Beavercreek would be good. But, reports say that Vail can get very crowded and is a bit of a dreary town. We do like the atmposhere of Austrian villages. I think Courchevel 1850 is a hideous town with no soul. Because our time is limited I don't want to waste it on resorts where snow cover might be poor - I am a bad sport and would sulk if I didn't have good snow. I also hate skiing in snow, so if it could snow at night then sunshine during the day, that would be great Toofy Grin

I like valleys and tree lined runs. I get a bit nervous standing on the top of a mountain and looking over the edge.i.e. I prefer Courchevel to Val Thoren. I also want to go where the people are friendly Little Angel

We've stayed in some pretty upmarket places where the rest of the guests are pretty rude. I was worried that Beavercreek might be like that. But then again, Americans can't resist striking up a conversation with anyone.
I figured we'd have 1 US trip and 1 Europe trip.
Can you accommodate this spoilt b*tch wink

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

My experience of USA resorts is that they are not stuck up; Aspen is supposed to be pretty upmarket, but seemed perfectly civil to me.

If you like Austrian resorts, you'll hate Vail; it's a hideous disneyfied version of an Austrian resort (no actual resemblance, obviously). The bowls are impressive, although they seem to catch the sun pretty early in the day so if you're going late in the season you'll find them soft (that was my experience anyway). I was very impressed by the skiing at Breckenridge, although it's bloody high. The area's not vast, although there's some pretty challenging (looking - I did very little of it) off piste stuff. It's close to several other CO resorts, and the ski pass gives you days in Vail, Beaver Creek, Keystone and A basin (apparently some very tricky stuff there). Breckenridge town is nothing to get excited about, but it's OK, some good restaurants and bars.

Utah is supposed to be the place for powder, isn't it? I know nothing about it (apart from that, and that you can't get a beer very easily).

Canada is very pleasant on the people front; friendly, competent, but not in your face in the way that a certain nearby superpower can be. Banff/LL is pretty damn good, reliable snow, can be a bit parky early in the year. Banff's a great town, as ski towns go, and has some good hotels.

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Erica,

I think you probably know already that your ideal resort does not exist.

We have been to a few places in the US and Canada. If you want an Austrian resort ambience, stick to Austria because you aint going to find it over the pond, other than in a Disneyfied sort of way.

In most US resorts they gear to the US traveller who typically comes for 3/4 days, not a week or 10 days, thus the resorts are not "built" the way of those in Europe. Plus they are largely defined areas leased from the Forest Service where there is a permit to ski within the boundary, but not outside. Forget about going from one valley to the next, village to village and getting a bus home. Forget also (largely) about good food on the hill whilst skiing, it largely is not there. There are fuel stops, there are generally not eateries of any memorability.Although the Canadian resorts seem more geared to the longer stay visitor I cant say the on the hill food is that much better.

On the other side there are various areas of excellent terrain which are often uncrowded (certainly midweek) and prodigious amounts of snow. We went to Mammoth this year which had some 500-600 inches of snow including 27 inches when we were there (and 6 out of 7 days of sunshine Caifornia style).You might not like that...300 mile transfer from LA and not much of a town to speak of, but humongous snow and a great ski mountain.

If you are time retricted then you want direct flights (tho from London not Devon), short transfers and good snow.

On that basis Canada rather than the US may be a better bet, it also means you do not have to go through US immigration which can be a pain/delay.

Banff/Lake Louise or Whistler may be what you are looking at......but Whistler can have dodgy weather from your criteria ie not much sun and possibility of rain at resort level. We have been there 3 times and think the ski terrain is great, but you might not like the weather. We are thinking about Banff this year, not been ,but loads of others here have and reports seem generally positive.Whistler is all new recently built so no old world ambience, but some great hotels and restaurants. Others can tell you on Banff. Whistler had a very bad snow year last year until Marchish (probably wont happen 2 years in a row so you should be ok). Banff can be very cold in early season.Whistler transfer is 2 hours from Vancouver Banff is I believe less from Calgary.

Apart from that you may want to look at Aspen (not been there but friends have and loved it). Direct flight to Denver, 200 mile transfer but I am told a nice town and 4 resorts in the immediate area. Should be sufficient to keep you going for 7/8 days skiing. They are separate so you do 1 a day ,they are not linked.

On people I have found both Americans and Canadians delightful so you really should not worry about that.....as you will have found you can get rude gits wherever you go !!

Another option is Salt Lake City. No direct flight but probably 6 or 7 resorts within 40 mins of downtown, traffic permitting. Excellent snow record...but no Austrian village ambience I would imagine

After all it is free

Colin,

A good summary.

erica2004,

Aspen & Telluride have an old town feel to them . No car is needed. The hills are right on your doorstep. Theres plenty of skiing to be had in Aspen. Most locals go to Aspen Highlands. Highlands Bowl (same pass) should keep you busy. Over in Snowmass (same pass) you could check out "Cirque Headwall" & "Hanging Valley Wall". Theres is only three cheap style lodges in Aspen if your going alone & there all bunk,shared style rooms.

Wear The Fox Hat,

I wont pay more than €4.00 a pint in St Anton as thats what I pay here in Holland.

erica2004, When I read that you like tree lined runs, I thought of Breckenridge as the tree line goes higher than in Europe. The town is based at 9600 feet, so if you get sleepless nights at altitude it can be a problem. The runs are quite varied, when I was there it did snow at night (how convenient), with total blue sky days (which also meant it was very cold). A car is very useful, if you want to ski around "Summit County". Within reach are Copper Mountain -readily accessible bowls 30 mins drive, Keystone-lots of tree lined runs 1 hour. Arapahoe Basin-steeper pisted runs, but can be tackled by intermediates without grief-felt most like the Alps. Vail/Beaver Creek have already had some discussion here. When I was there I did not have a car, but still got around the area using the bus service, this meant shuttles to/from the Frisco Switching Center, get the car!

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Erica, just my limited 2 cents worth. I have relatively limited N.A. experience - but here's the highlights.

Whistler/Blackcomb is a lot of fun and I've had some very fine days there. Hospitality is typically Canadian - very friendly - and the town has everything you might need. There's even one excellent on mountain restaurant "Christine's" but it's not for every day eating - $$$$. I've been lucky with the snow and weather although that said the -30C conditions the first time prompted acquisition of some very rarely-used-since insulation! Patagonia R4 fleece highly recommended tho'! So although you can get fantastic snow, it's on the coast so the snow can be wetter, and so heavier. IMHO I think it's maybe less optimal to learn off piste skills than other places.

Utah however might be just the ticket. They market it as the "best powder in the world". They're right. Because it's high (esp for the US) and in the middle of the continent the snow is incredibly dry and fluffy. So you tend to get amazing powder and it tends to stay in good shape longer. A guide I toured with in Wyoming (about 6 hours drive north and west of SLC) when asked how often they skied the knee deep, fluffiest snow I've ever seen replied with a look of surprise, "Gee, about every day."

You can get a lift pass that covers all the resorts out of Salt Lake City which gives you two major advantages. 1. Variety, you will not run out of skiing. 2. You can follow the weather. Apparently, according to a friend that lives there because you are at highish altitude anyway the weather follows the contours so that while it might be snowing a good 'un in a resort at one end of the area it's blue skies at the other. And, this is apparently quite predictable - so you can easily choose, in variable weather, what you're going to ski.

Practicalities? Staying in SLC is more flexible but you're then in a city. Which might feel odd. SLC obviously has everything food entertainment wise of any city. We're planning a trip to UT in March and although the drives would be longer I'm thinking of basing ourselves in Park City. It's tried to remain a bit like an old western town in feel but has plenty of bars, restaurants, etc. Food generally good but obviously North American. The drinking rules are arcane. Beer is limited to 3.7%. So they brew lots of really flavoursome ales instead to compensate. You can drink happily in restaurants and brew pubs but to drink in a regular bar you need to join. That just means paying $5 for one of your party to join who can then "sign" everyone else in. Typically $10 or so gets you a weekly membership. This bizarre set up doesn't get in the way, I assure you!!

Flights easy - I went Continental through Newark. And just reviewing the posts, you might well find WTFHs suggestion of joining them at Epicski a mighty fine idea. I haven't skied Snowbird but drove past on way to Alta. they are truly unique resorts, unusual but for all the best reasons (and results). Neither of you are snowboarders tho' as they're not allowed!! Happy

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From memory, you can fly:
Continental - via Newark
Delta - via Atlanta
North West - via Minneapolis
or
United - via Chicago.

Your best bets are to check Expedia and Opodo, then ring Trailfinders - 020 7937 5400

Oh, and don't forget NOT to learn a foreign language, or have Germans ski over your tips or tails as you wait in line (partly cause there's very few Germans there, and partly because there are even fewer lift queues)

Cheers

I'll take a look at the Banff/Lake Louise area and decide between this and Utah. My only concern about Utah is that it is marketed for experienced skiers, and it requires a flight change. But, one of my sisters (& family ) live 1hr from Newark, so we can fly Continental (from Bristol now) to Newark and then on to SLC.
I gather from the remarks about Vail being 'disneyesque' , that Vail is a purpose built resort ? I guess it will have been done better than Les Menuires etc. I don't have a problem with 'disney' as the park in Florida is just fabulous! And my favourite busy city has to be NY. That skyline is just stunning.
Wear The Fox Hat, How true, the Germans are very rude in the ski lifts.

You know it makes sense.

erica2004, Utah has a lot of Intermediate terrain. But it is most famous for its expert stuff. (A bit like Jackson Hole - many think it is expert only, but when you get there, there are some great blues and reds)

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Alta:
http://www.alta.com/Frames/trailmap.htm

Snowbird:
http://www.snowbird.com/about/trailmaps.html
(Mineral Basin is included at the bottom of the page)

Park City:
http://www.parkcitymountain.com/winter/menu_01/03_Resort_Maps/01_Trail_Map/

Snowbasin:
http://www.snowbasin.com/winter/trail_maps.html

(Just chosen these 4 as I will be skiing them with the Epic crowd in January)

A snowHead

Wear The Fox Hat,
How does the grading of pistes in Utah compare with Europe ? I understand that US greens are the equivalent of European blues, US blues are Europ. reds,etc.. Is this the case ? Would a reasonable intermediate manage the blacks ? If it's good snow, I guess so.

A snowHead

erica2004, As a "reasonable intermediate" I visited Squaw Valley and did some "Double Diamond" stuff without any heartstopping moments. They had single and double diamond. My take was that single diamond at Squaw was equivalent to French red runs.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

erica2004, My intuition is that the Americans typically grade higher than we would in Europe. Unless you are overselling your skiing and I'm sure you're not then I think you'll handle the on piste terrain just fine. I expect that would go for Banff/LL too. It certainly would in Whistler.

Some of the reasons why Utah is marketed at experts is that the off piste can be so good. Also, in Alta the entire are is "in bounds" so the ski patrol will rescue you from anywhere on or off piste. Makes them pretty fun guys to ski with!

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erica2004, there's a bit of variety - some resorts downgrade, some upgrade, and some do both! It's mainly marketing, remember the colour of a run is not a global standard, so a black in one resort might be a blue in another.
Vail has a black run on the frontside, which is really blue, but then in Blue Sky Basin (the back of Vail) there is a run called "Lovers Leap", which is down as a single black, when really it should be a double.

Most resorts aim for having at least half their runs as blues and blacks. If they want to attract beginners, then they'll go for >25% green. If they want to appeal to experts, then you'll see more blacks, and more double blacks.

Resorts I would say that are similarly graded to European ones (such as Val d'Isere or Saalbach):
Big Sky/Moonlight Basin
Beaver Creek
Copper
Snowbird
Brighton
Park City
Whistler

Resorts which are more difficult than their markings:
Winter Park (well, their black runs really are BLACK)
Alta (some of the blues should be blacks, and some of the blacks are just plain scary)

And a resort which is easier than its markings... Deer Valley.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

erica2004, Vail is indeed purpose built. So far as i could see (in a 1 day visit!), there's no original town, but there may be one lurking somewhere. I manged in the short time I was there to build up a very strong dislike for the town (not for the skiing, which seemed excellent). It's very busy and a pretty horific pastiche of an Austrian resort. It seemed to have largely poncey (ie overpriced) restaurants. In its favour, there are some car free streets and it's right on the slopes. I was glad we'd chosen to stay in Breckenridge and visit Vail, rather than vv.

I've been to Banff/LL a lot (Banff 6 times, LL twice, I think). If there's anything you would like to know, I'll do my best.

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Erica,

Haven't skied enough places to accurately compare grading. My wife and I are middle range intermediates who have only skied 3 years. We have taken quite a few lesson. We spent a week in Park City last year. We skied Dear Valley 1 day and thought the food was great (arguably the best on mountain food in the U.S.) and had a good, but underwhelming day. We were comfortable on all the blues and pretty comfortable on whay they label double blues. Did the next day at The Canyons, again comfortable on all the blues and reasonably comfortable on the double blues (fairly steep for us). There is tons of intermediated cruising in the three Park City resorts. Third day we drove to Alta and were wondering if we could do more than the greens, given the expert reputation. Alta had groomed blue cruisers off of every lift and we did them all. Absolutely loved Alta. Alta also offers the opportunity to venture a bit off piste into short areas of bumps and powder without getting to far from the pisted terrain. Alta is a throwback old school area, but my wife and I just loved it. We drove over for a 2nd day. Didn't try other areas but I always hear that Solitude is very good for intermediates. And I don't think I've ever read a negative comment about Snowbasin. I think as intermediates you can find plenty of skiing in UT.

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erica2004, I'd be interested to see which resort you end up choosing. You seem to like similar to me, but you're probably a more advanced skier. We love Austria and tree lined runs; and recently we have been skiing Portes du Soleil (which is very good) and some Swiss resorts because we have use of an appartment at avery reasonable rate. We are off to Banff 2006/2007 for our first Trans Atlantic ski trip, but I can't help getting the feeling I'll prefer Europe - we shall just have to wait and see. Nothing ventured and all that Toofy Grin

After all it is free

IncogSkiSno, if you go with the attitude of "I prefer Europe", then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Smile

Wear The Fox Hat, No I'm not going to go with that attitude at all, if I really felt like that then I wouldn't waste £6K to take all the family, it's somewhere that I've always wanted to go. I am very open minded and will ski anywhere once (within my ability) and if possible I may one day try America to. snowHead

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Have you though about Jackson Hole? It's far from being an "experts only" resort, you can do plenty of other non skiing activitites like dog sledding, visit YellowStone National Park etc etc. It's a great place for off-piste, and Grand Targhee is worth a visit for even less people and more powder!

I was there over New Year 1999 and it was really quiet. Some cr*ppy pics here

http://www.gregh.co.uk/html/jackson.htm

My brother went there on my recommendation for his honeymoon, he was a one week skier and loved it.

regards,

Greg

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USA resort choice

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