 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hmm.
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| “Les gens skieront sans doute moins. Nos enquêtes confirment un vieillissement de la clientèle et un temps plus limité passé sur les pistes” |
I can see myself backing off the more tricky stuff as I get older - but hope to be skiing the blues and reds into fairly old age. Not so sure about the rest.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The foreign customers we also criticized the lack of atmosphere compared to our competitors in Italy and Austria."
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"We learned a lot from amusement parks ........ how best to manage queues, develop attractive sites, signing .........."
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hmm Compagnie des Alpes do own quite a few amusement parks (including one oop North in the UK)
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Queue management is a good thing, but if the slopes are going to be infested with cartoon characters and 'entertainment' I'll be spending all my days off at Alpe de Grand Serre.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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let's hope they don't pinch the pricing structures, a 6 day lift pass is a lot cheaper than many theme parks!
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They're already changing pretty fast. I've been surprised at the extent of novelty and investment even in such a relatively minor areas as ours. there are changes every year. New chairlifts, new cannons, new reservoirs, a "coup de bull" in places where pistes are inconveniently tricky fancier apartments being built (none without pools now, it seems...), fancier shops, beauty treatments, dog sled events, ski-joering, etc etc. They're certainly not resting on their laurels. Two of the "bon vieux tire-fesses" have disappeared in Les Saisies alone in the last year.
Recognition of the fact that not everybody wants to ski all day can be a good thing - the appearance of new signposted tracks for snow-shoeing and walking is one example of a welcome development (welcome to me, at any rate).
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| Lizzard wrote: |
http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/2010/10/10/a-quoi-ressembleront-les-stations-demain
Sounds a bit tacky to me.  |
Sounds to me like the ski industry is waking up to the need to provide an experience which many of their customers might value more highly than a summer holiday such as a theme park destination. Can only be a good thing IMO.
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I certainly hope ski resorts won't become anything like theme parks. I hope junk food outlets will be banned for starters.
I think building accommodation with swimming pools, jacuzzis and steam rooms makes sense though. You can ski all day long and still have time for a quick swim afterwards. The last few times we have been skiing we have stayed in places with pools and despite not being as fit as I used to be I have not suffered any leg aches and pains. I put this down to swimming a few lengths and sitting in the jacuzzi at the end of each day after skiing till the lifts are almost shut.
I do enjoy the newer faster chairlifts but it would be sad if drag lifts disappeared completely.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I hope junk food outlets will be banned for starters.
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Too late! Even Megeve has the golden arches.
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...and has done for at least 15 years. It's relatively out of the way though, that is, not spoiling the village centre or the slopes themselves. And yes, I did go there once with a load of kids. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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laundryman,
That's allright, "kids" give you carte blanche... It's not your fault...That's what I keep telling myself.. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
quote "The foreign customers we also criticized the lack of atmosphere compared to our competitors in Italy and Austria."
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Many U.S. resorts are a parody of Alpine villages & it feel like Disneyland. It does not work for me, lucky they have good snow in Coloraro which makes up for the lack of atmosphere.
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| Lechbob wrote: |
| Boredsurfing wrote: |
quote "The foreign customers we also criticized the lack of atmosphere compared to our competitors in Italy and Austria."
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Many U.S. resorts are a parody of Alpine villages & it feel like Disneyland. It does not work for me, lucky they have good snow in Coloraro which makes up for the lack of atmosphere. |
I think thats a claim you could levy at most resorts who aim for that 'chocolate box' alpine village look - and thats hardly a North American phenomenon, there are plenty of culprits in the resorts of France, Italy and Austria who limit new buildings to only the formulaic carved-wooden-cuckoo-clock-chalet design under the guise of "Keeping the look of the town" - how is that any less artifical?
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You know it makes sense.
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Richard_Sideways, indeed, and how often have traditional mountain communities used 6-pack chairlifts (with covers) to bring the cattle down from their summer pastures when the autumnal weather arrives? Skiing is a multibillion euro/dollar industry, and like all forms of mass tourism needs to provide the customer with a experience which competes in a currently tough market for discretionary spend. If it's possible to mimicke the quality of experience, if not the exact same product, that Disney provides then skiing has a rosy future.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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to provide the customer with a experience
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Says it all, really.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Lizzard wrote: |
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to provide the customer with a experience
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Says it all, really. |
What would you have instead?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Much of the whole ski thing has been a bit "theme park" for a long time, and not necessarily any the worse for that. Most of us rely on enormous quantities of technology and a veritable army of servants to help us feel masters of the mountain. And all those guys dressed up in lederhosen slapping their thighs and waitresses with dirndls and enormous steins? And Savoyard chimney sweep boys blacked up for the day? 21st century buildings dressed up as "authentic"? O yes, those olden day chalets were beautifully heated and veritably bursting with jacuzzis. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| And Savoyard chimney sweep boys blacked up for the day? |
It was only recently that I discovered the significance of that. I guess it's relevant to this issue - without ski-related tourism the peasant farmers of Savoy would still be exporting their kids to the C21st equivalent of Parisian chimneys.
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The guys in the lederhosen always reminded me of a visit to an "authentic African village" near Soweto. The chaps obliged with a (very good) stamping sort of dance, tricked out in feathers and straw. Walking round the back later you could see the neatly folded suits and shirts, carefully piled on top of nicely polished shoes, so they wouldn't get covered in the ubiquitous red dust.
We went to the "fete des alpages" in Annecy last Saturday. Terrific. Parade of animals including sheep, cows (some dressed in Christmas trees and many dressed in flowers), calves and St Bernards, live rabbits and chickens in wooden crates on the back of donkeys, lots of folk dancers, roasted chestnuts, apple pressing. The town was heaving. We enjoyed it greatly but the "theme park" resemblance couldn't really be denied.
The entire business of sitting on top of cold and snowy mountains in winter, consuming ridiculous amounts of power just to survive and get around, is a tourist construct. Surely nobody thinks they're getting an authentic mountain experience, or is unaware that if they were, they'd hate every minute of it?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lechbob,
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Many U.S. resorts are a parody of Alpine villages & it feel like Disneyland
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Whereas Les Arcs 1950 is a French paraody of an American Alpine Disneyland parody 
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 12-10-10 12:58; edited 1 time in total
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rob@rar, I dislike the image of a lot of passive lumps expecting to be 'provided with an experience'.
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Well they have to do something to get the punters in as it rarely snows there
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Boris,  Cheers! Edited now.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| rob@rar, I dislike the image of a lot of passive lumps expecting to be 'provided with an experience'. |
What would you like them to be provided with if it's not 'an experience'? Or is it the 'passive lumps' part that you don't like? Just trying to work out if you have an issue with the semantics, or whether it's a problem with making life easy and enjoyable for the people who pay for skiing holidays?
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rob@rar, i like to think that a ski area provides me with the infrastructure to make my own experience. Basically, I don't want that infrastructure to get in the way - so short or no queues at the ticket office and on the lifts and lifts which are open most of the time is pretty much all I want.
when i see somewhere like Vail with the most expensive lift pass in north america, but included in that are "free" ski valets, nose wipes, cheery people to show you where to go, heated chairlifts etc, i can't help but ask myself why i can't get a cheaper pass but without all that nonsense that i don't care about (not that i have ever been to Vail, but Whistler is heading in that direction IMV)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Arno, maybe, although I suspect it is the passive lumps she dislikes rather than importing way of managing queues from other parts of the tourism industry. I'm also looking for an efficient infrastructure and not much else, but I think that you and I are atypical skiers. I think I'm right to say that there has been a general decline in the number of people taking ski holidays for a decade at least. Those people, with the exception of the last year or two perhaps, are taking other kinds of holiday (my sister and her family are a classic example). Why is that? Cost, service, better options elsewhere?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, yes - i'm not sure couch potatoes are ever going to be tempted away from the couch/lounging like a beached pink whale on a spanish beach. that said, if resorts become overrun with people who are there for non-skiing "experiences" that probably leaves more space on the slopes for us!
i can see that more variety would attract more families and mixed groups of skiers and non-skiers
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| Arno wrote: |
| i can see that more variety would attract more families and mixed groups of skiers and non-skiers |
Exactly, and in time the kids in those families will become the dedicated skiers forming the mainstay of the ski industry in the future. But that will be more likely to happen if those families are regular skiers now. My sister and her young family have not been skiing for four or five years. This is entirely due to her perception that skiing is not child friendly. In those years she has spent a shedload of money with Disney, Center Parcs, UK B&Bs and a nice little campsite outside Paris. What is the ski industry doing wrong that it can't capture some of that money?
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, it seems like you'd be in a better position to know than the rest of us! What specific things led her to the 'not child friendly' perception?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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laundryman, nothing that I can say for definite, just an overall feeling. I think she wasn't entirely happy with the creche facilities the last time she went away as a family; she's seen the ski school arrangements in a few resorts and thought they compared poorly to activities that the likes of Center Parcs provides for young kids; she wanted an English speaking instructor for the kids but the ESF couldn't guarantee it and the Brit ski schools often don't have access to snow gardens; she wanted a wider range of stuff to do in resort than just skiing for her and her family. She makes a decision between skiing or another type of holiday each year and skiing has rarely won. I think she's wrong, but the end result is her money going elsewhere. That's an isolated example, but if I'm right to say that skier numbers are in steady and longterm decline maybe lots of people are reaching the same kind of answer?
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, fair points.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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i like to think that a ski area provides me with the infrastructure to make my own experience.
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+1. I'm more than just some vacant consumer.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Lizzard wrote: |
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i like to think that a ski area provides me with the infrastructure to make my own experience.
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+1. I'm more than just some vacant consumer. |
She's an M&S vacant consumer!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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But the infrastructure many people want to "make their own experience" includes a range of entertainment, cheesy bars, cheesy music, cheesy meals, swimming pools, jacuzzis, spas, massage and beauty treatments, quad bikes, etc etc etc
Personally I'm content to cook myself a nice dinner, have a few glasses of wine and read a book of an evening, but it's not most people's idea of a good time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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i have to say that in north america where skiing is a 'holiday' rather than a 'sport' they do have family friendly appeal. the lifties are polite, there are public toilets (  ) and slope patrol actually manage the slow zones. on busy days people make sure the queues are queues and not a contact sport. there is a 'picnic area' inside the big restaurants.
the slopes are designed so everyone (beginner or not) can experience some of the mountain.
compare that to europe - often no toilets except at the bottom (and not always very nice), stupidly priced cafes or eat your sarnies on the chairlift, rude unhelpful staff (often but not always), a perception that unless skiing is a death-wish sport it's not 'real'.
a lot of people are turned off skiing by these things (not me of course!)
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Richard_Sideways,
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grey, Our lifties are unfailingly polite and v helpful to kids and beginners. I often exchange a "bonjour" but am heartily grateful they don't feel impelled to tell me to have a nice day. There are plenty of public loos up the mountain. We don't have a "salle hors sac" in our area (and it would be a welcome addition) but loads of French resorts do - I think your ideas may be a wee bit out of date, or maybe you go to the wrong European resorts. I've not skied for years anywhere other than France but I'd be surprised if Switzerland and Austria didn't have some quite decent toilets. There are also heaps of resorts (probably the majority, which are essentially focussed on "family skiing" with loads of red and blue runs where the death wish skier would feel frustrated at the lack of challenge.
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| If it's possible to mimicke the quality of experience, if not the exact same product, that Disney provides then skiing has a rosy future. |
If you want a Disneyland experience go to Disneyland, not the mountains!
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FAQ
