 Poster: A snowHead
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Two children in our ski group (16 & 14) have already completed Competition level with ESF. That's the top level they seem to offer. Should they just keep going with Competition? (No availability for either alternative ski schools or private lessons)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@foxtrotzulu,
My own somewhat limited experience is that these levels are very much a guide rather than anything too definitive and what level they are actually taught at will depend on what level the other people who pitch up are like. If there are other people of similar ability / aptitude as themselves they will have a ball if the other folk are of a much lower standard they will not.
Slightly surprised there are no privates available most resorts can find some private instructors for some of the time even if the hours are not the same as ski school. What do your children want to do?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Why not ring the school and ask what they suggest? Or they could just come skiing with you and show all the grownups up rotten. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@fostrotzulu
The ESF in Montriond have 2 streams: normal, and enfants du pays.
The both have the same level names : Gold, Competiton etc...
The difference is that the normal one, you can progress from 1 level to the next with 1 or 2 weeks of lessons (2.5hrs per day), but the enfants du pays you only get to progress to the next level at the end of the season. So during the season there will be lessons SAT AM, Some SUN AM, WED Pm for younger children, plus a week in FEB, and at easter too if snow permits. So you get about 80-90 hours of tuition per level, and the test at the end of the season.
Whilst it is possible that one could progress as much in 25 hours as you can in 80, generally the standard of the enfants du pays is very high, and this is the feeder for the infamous Ski-Club. When our children were in the enfants du pays section, occassionally other children did go into the lessons, who were not there all season long (so it is certainly possible). It would be worth asking if they could go with the enfants du pays competition section to see how they get on.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Check with them if they are running a freeride program for teens.
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OK, thanks for all the advice. I have now got it sorted.
@T Bar,
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Slightly surprised there are no privates available most resorts can find some private instructors for some of the time even if the hours are not the same as ski school. What do your children want to do?
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Indeed, but only private afternoon lessons available (3-5pm) and that rather mucks up the day.
@pam w,
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| Why not ring the school and ask what they suggest? |
 Tried that!! ESF were their usual disorganised, unhelpful selves. Apparently 'adults' start at age 12, but in reality you can't actually book them onto the adult groups until they are aged somewhere between 12 and 17 and they won't/can't tell you where that point is. The gist of it seemed to be that we should book them into Competition and then maybe they would teach to a higher standard, and maybe they wouldn't. All that is assuming they run a Competition class at all, which they probably wouldn't know for a week or two because le Directeur has gone to the world cup.
@stewart woodward,
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| What do you mean by completed Are they got Gold, Silver or Bronze standard in the Fleeche & Chamoix |
They don't seem to offer Silver and no mention of fleche or chamoix. Yes, they have their BSG and competition 'badges'.
@WindOfChange,
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The ESF in Montriond have 2 streams: normal, and enfants du pays.
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I don't think ESF Avoriaz do that and it doesn't sounds as if it would be suitable for one-week-a-year english teenagers.
@pam w,
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Or they could just come skiing with you and show all the grownups up rotten.
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That's what I'm trying to avoid!
I should, of course, have booked all this ages ago but it never occurred to me that i'd need to. Previously I've never really thought about ski school until we arrived or a few days beforehand. I also thought that the w/c 29 March was before the State schools break up and the French schools weren't on hols either. Seems rather busy for what i thought would be a quietish week!
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@foxtrotzulu, from my experience of the higher levels of "adult" group lessons with ESF the standard of the top competition levels are better - because adults will put themselves in groups above their level and schools seem reluctant to demote them.
I always try to book ski school well in advance - even out of school holidays and many British schools break up for Easter on 27th March.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@foxtrotzulu,
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Indeed, but only private afternoon lessons available (3-5pm) and that rather mucks up the day.
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I guess it depends on how you organise your day but for me having the lessons at the beginning or at the end allows quite a lot of freedom to do what you want in the rest of it. Late season I am happy to put my feet up with a beer and let the children ski at this time of day  Not sure what the snow will be like by then but for very technical lessons it might not matter too much.
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Unless there's some significant change in the weather between now and then 3 pm will be the time to give up skiing for the day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In my experience, kids get awarded badges a good while before they have really bedded in their skiing at the level the "book" calls for. Kids like getting badges and ski schools like to keep customers happy. I'm not sure I'd assume there is nothing to be gained by "repeating" levels
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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All booked into ESF Competition level 0915-1115, so fingers crossed it works OK.
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my neighbours, who live in Geneva, have three girls who all went through the ESF system - they were out here many weekends and some weeks during the season. They all had to repeat at least one level, having failed to make the speeds required.
I have done two beginner and one intermediate cross country skiing courses - three full weeks - and still can't really skip in and out of the traces with any confidence and competence. The difference between "level 2", "level 3" etc is, except for the most gifted, a lot greater than anyone can expect to achieve in an annual holiday week.
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You know it makes sense.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| All booked into ESF Competition level 0915-1115, so fingers crossed it works OK. |
Hope they have a great time.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A bit late now, but our recent experience with ESF for Elder Daughter in Montgenevre was as follows: She had her Gold star already and we were advised there were two potential classes for her. (Being half term week, ESF knew they were offering a full programme well in advance). Option 1 was "Competition", which concentrated on slalom racing. Minimum standard was Bronze star. Option 2 was "Mini Champion", which concentrated on doing whatever the instructor felt like, at great speed. Minimum standard was Gold star.
Elder Daughter raved about this class, as they covered powder, bumps, trees, slalom and off piste. There was a lot of tuition, but it was tailored to the conditions rather than needing to pass a particular test of perform particular skills. There were 4 instructors for "Mini Champion" with a big range of ability across the 4 groups, which were shuffled/seeded on the first day.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| They all had to repeat at least one level, having failed to make the speeds required. |
Wherever my kids have been incarcerated with ESF, only the Gold star has had an official speed/time standard. ESF do place a great emphasis on speed, so I guess anyone who struggled for speed could still fail the technique elements.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@foxtrotzulu,
Which resort are you going to?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@stewart woodward, Avoriaz
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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..................
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@The Flying Snowplough, I think one problem was that the girls were very slight, and tended to be in classes above their normal age group as they skied so much. They are all extremely proficient. They were doing competition levels - I don't know the details but Fleche, Chamois etc which all sounded rather hard work to me!
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FAQ
Are they got Gold, Silver or Bronze standard in the Fleeche & Chamoix 
