 Poster: A snowHead
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it's now official.
BASI in partnership with snowsport England is to replace the ASSI with BASI Level 1 Instructor.
The existing grade 3 Ski Instructor will become BASI Level 2 Ski Instructor. Level 1 will be similar to the existing trainee, but will have an assessment aspect.
It can be undertaken on snow or artificial.
The successful candidate will receive a certificate to teach on artificial slopes in UK.
ASSI's attended after July 07 will not give BASI exemptions, exemptions will only be valid up to May 08.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Spyderman, the BASI website is down at the moment - are the details of these new arrangements available anywhere else?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, I just got it from BASI News in the post this morning, there's a full article there.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Spyderman, OK, I'm not a BASI member yet so I'll have to wait until their website is back up. I've also checked with the ICE website (Mark Jones' outfit in Val d'Isere) and that's also down - I assume the same hosting service?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Both websites are back up, but no information on the changes.
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brian
brian
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Well, irrespective of how the structure fits together, I think it's an elementary mistake to reintroduce numbering to mean a totally different thing. I wonder how many people will be entirely confused when their BASI level 1 instructor turns out to be from the bottom of the tree rather than the top ?
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rob@rar, a little info in the last board meeting item 8,
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 29-05-07 15:34; edited 1 time in total
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brian, but isn't it the same for most instructor certificates?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So: What is the new proposed BASI grading system, and when does this come into effect?
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brian
brian
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Wear The Fox Hat, dunno ? Can't think of anyone else who used to have numbered grades then changed to names and then reintroduced numbers but the other way round meaning an entirely different thing. I think most people still refer to the current BASI grades by the old numbers 1-3.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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brian, sorry, what I mean was that the likes of the CSIA and PSIA grading goes from 1 (lowest level) upwards.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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veeeight, From July 07.
from the bottom:
Level 1 Ski Instructor - Old Trainee Instructor
Level 2 Ski Instructor - Ski Instructor - Grade 3
Ski Teacher ISIA - Grade 2
International Ski Teacher Diploma - Grade 1
BASI Trainer
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Spyderman, so a mixture of numbers (level 1, level 2) and names??? 
Another question: What of the existing SSS and SSE coaches who are at the moment qualified to assess and examine ASSI's?
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brian
brian
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Wear The Fox Hat, if they were starting from scratch I think consistency with others would make sense. Personally I think they should have stuck with what people know, kept the grade 3,2,1 and called them grade 3a and b or something.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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brian, I guess they want to get into step with the rest of the world.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Within 6 months there will also be a new coaching scheme; BASC (British Association of Snowsport Coaches) with Level 1 for club coaches & Level 2 for Head coaches
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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veeeight, I agree, don't like the mixture of numbers & names. To me it would be better to change the whole thing to a numbering system like CSIA Level 1 at the bottom and Level 4 at the top.
There is no mention of SSS, just an amalgamation between SSE & BASI. The existing ASSI exemptions for BASI courseswill expire in May 08.
There is no mention of a conversion course for existing ASSI Istructors to become BASI Level 1.
I would imagine SSS will continue with the ASSI, but it is devalued as it will no longer provide BASI exemption.
Will SSE continue to offer ASSI? doesn't look like it, what happens to their existing ASSI's?
BASI seem quite clear as to what they're doing, but not how it effects the existing home nation governing bodies.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| Within 6 months there will also be a new coaching scheme; BASC (British Association of Snowsport Coaches) with Level 1 for club coaches & Level 2 for Head coaches |
Is that the scheme delivered by CSCF?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Very interested to hear this - last I heard they'd failed to reach agreement with SSS and SSE and were going to run their own courses parallel to the existing ASSI, now we seem to have gone back to a more sensible position but what about SSS, they only seem to have agreement with SSE? Looking at those BASI meeting minutes the only thing I can see is "told Scotland that we will be working with SSE", I presume "Scotland" means SSS.
From my POV I'll be interested to see how they plan to incorporate the SSE ASSI into BASI in the coming months and years, I'm currently doing the SSE ASSI so will I have to do another course to get the BASI Level 1 or will it just be some sort of assessment I wonder. I guess they'll have to do assessments to see if people are up to scratch, they surely can't ask all existing ASSIs to do a full course... or can they...
Spyderman, is there any chance of a link to the article you mention (if it's available) or a scan/OCR of it or something so we can see exactly what it says?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As far as the coaching side of things is concerned, there was an announcement about this at the British Junior Champs in Meribel. BASI are pushing forward independently with a coaching scheme. They could give no details or idea of how this was to be achieved. I have subsequently heard from the Canadians that BAI are negotiating to deliver the CSCF courses as their own (under license, I believe).
BASI seemed sure that this would be in place withing 6 months, despite extreme vagueness over structure and equivelence of current qualifications. They are using an ex British Olympian and coach to help them (in my opinion, this is also to buy them credibility).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Georgio and veeeight, The SSS and SSE APC coaching courses are already based on the equivalent CSCF ones and are run by CSCF level 3 & 4 coaches.
The race coaching system was working fine in my opinion and didn't need changing.
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rjs, that may well be so, but BASI needs to generate more money 
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rjs,
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The SSS and SSE APC coaching courses
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BASI & Snowsports GB will deliver Coaching scheme.
APC will only be recognised towards Teacher level BASI up to the end of July 07, after which time The BASI APM will be the only recognised performance module for teacher level.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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roga,
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Spyderman, is there any chance of a link to the article you mention (if it's available) or a scan/OCR of it or something so we can see exactly what it says?
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Page from BASI News
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| Spyderman wrote: |
veeeight, From July 07.
from the bottom:
Level 1 Ski Instructor - Old Trainee Instructor
Level 2 Ski Instructor - Ski Instructor - Grade 3
Ski Teacher ISIA - Grade 2
International Ski Teacher Diploma - Grade 1
BASI Trainer |
Maybe I'm missing something here but this looks like a ludicrous system.
To have Grade 1, Grade 2, Level 1, Level 2 all in the same scale is so obviously begging confusion.
To have to distinguish between a 'Ski Teacher' and a 'Ski Instructor' just adds further opportunity for error - what's better? Instructor or Teacher? As a lay-skier, I'd have assumed 'instructor'.
e.g.
"Yes sir, I'm a Grade one Ski Teacher" (but how many Instructors have you heard refer to themselves as 'teachers' so....)
... "My instructor said he's a Grade one"
"Oh yeah, level 1 eh? He can't be all that then, my mate's just done his level 2, just did a course of a few weeks I think."
It may well be crystal clear for officials and administrators or for the people that hold the certs. But really you could call the grades whatever you liked and the home industry would have to get the hang of it.
But this is bound to confuse two important groups of people.
Firstly, all but the most informed punters - perhaps that's the intention?
Secondly, anyone from another country trying to figure the details of equivalence.
If they are going to the trouble of changing the system with the inevitable confusion that any change would involve, it would foolish not to implement something that was easier to understand while they're at it. I'm not sure this system could be designed to be any more confusing.
If they go ahead with this it will be nothing but another kick in the nuts for British Ski Instructors IMV.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Spyderman, thanks for scanning the page from BASI News.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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x7, The levels that I put in after the hyphens are the old grading system. So it's just the the fist column to read.
1)Level 1 Ski Instructor
2)Level 2 Ski Instructor
3)Ski Teacher ISIA
4)International Ski Teacher Diploma
5)BASI Trainer
Very confusing I know, as I've said, better to use the Canadian CSIA grading of 1 - 4, 4 being the highest.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| Very confusing I know, as I've said, better to use the Canadian CSIA grading of 1 - 4... |
...with 5 being the highest 
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You know it makes sense.
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FenlandSkier, BASI Trainer is by invitation from BASI to become a Trainer, the qualification is no higher than ISTD i.e. No.4
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Spyderman, so it looks like it will now be possible to do what was called the Trainee Instructor (formerly the Foundation Week) on plastic or indoor snow, as well as doing the same (?) course in an Alpine resort. Is it assumed that it will be the same experience for the candidate? One of the reasons I want to do the Trainee Instructor course is because I've heard good things about the technical aspects as well as developing an understanding of teaching. Surely the same course on an indoor slope can't possibly provide the same kind of experience as being on a mountain (eg, variable snow conditions, bumps, steep terrain, etc)?
Should I now consider doing the new Level 1 course on plastic/indoors this summer or autumn, then going for the Level 2 assessment during the winter?
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar,
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Should I now consider doing the new Level 1 course on plastic/indoors this summer or autumn, then going for the Level 2 assessment during the winter?
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Sounds like a good plan, be one of the first Level 1's.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Spyderman wrote: |
rob@rar,
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Should I now consider doing the new Level 1 course on plastic/indoors this summer or autumn, then going for the Level 2 assessment during the winter?
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Sounds like a good plan, be one of the first Level 1's. |
I suppose it would get me to (new) Level 2 a bit more quickly (assuming I pass!), but at a cost of missing the good teaching that takes place during the (old) Trainee Instructor week. It will also involve retrieving some stuff from Les Arcs, or buying new boots, meaning an end to my excuse of not being able to ski on plastic because my boots are in France 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Spyderman, thanks very much for the scan 
I agree there could be some confusion over what a BASI 1 is for a while which is unfortunate.
It's good that there will be a single award available though, at least in England, but will SSS fall into line given this seems to be based on an agreement between BASI and SSE or will they continue to promote their own award? I also wonder how quickly the BASI award will come onstream because many ASSI courses are already underway - from my POV it'd be good if they shift over to BASI ASAP but that might be problematic given the logistics and need to train those running these courses.
Time will tell I guess!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rob@rar, whats the rush, why do it on plastic if you are planning to do both courses this coming season? Do the foundation course in the mountains with a BASI trainer with the new bonus of when you do your 70 hours you will be licensed and can work unsupervised....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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has anyone ever heard an ISTD introduce themselves as a "ski teacher diploma"? going back to numbers after spending time to eliminate them is crazy.... how about a basi 4 as would make sense to everyone on the planet.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If BASI have only done the deal with SSE do 'trainee' exemptions gained with SSS still apply?
It's a real pi$$er for ASSI's loosing the 'trainee' exemption, especially at so short notice. I could have accepted May 09 as a deadline as it would have given me two seasons to get my plans/finances sorted etc if I'd wanted to progress - but this is pretty short notice considering the cost/time required to take the courses etc. Seems like BASI money grabbing to me as they probably expect the old ASSI's to sign up for the new courses 
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This proposed system of numbers/names is totally potty! What about all of us with certificates for "Grade 1" - we had to work very hard for a very long time and pay a lot of money to BASI to boot to get them - it will now mean a trainee, trainee!
Once upon a time there were
Grade 3 - Assistant ski instructor
Grade 2 - Ski instructor
Grade 1 - Sli teacher
A grade 4 would be simple - even if it is the other way round to everyone else.
x7, I try to avoid the use of the word "instructor" wherever possible. I do consider myself a teacher or a coach if you prefer. 
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easiski, You'll still be a Grade 1, as opposed to a Level 1.
Yep, that's it. I think.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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spyderjon,
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If BASI have only done the deal with SSE do 'trainee' exemptions gained with SSS still apply?
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No they loose them also in May 08
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skimottaret,
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has anyone ever heard an ISTD introduce themselves as a "ski teacher diploma"?
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Most instructors just tell their class their name 
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how about a basi 4 as would make sense to everyone on the planet.
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Although BASI 4 makes sense to people who still refer to the old 3-2-1 grading. The old number system to me made perfect sense, even if the numbers were the other way round to everyone else.
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FAQ
