 Poster: A snowHead
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who do you book your ski holidays with?
I know of the options of booking flights and accom etc seperate, but wondered who you would use for a package deal.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We've used Inghams and have always been happy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For packages we use the excellent and very reasonable Ski Olympic & Silver Ski. Chalets & Chalethotels in the Tarentaise (France)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Renry, If you like the idea of a small independant TO maybe give us a try? Have a look at our website www.skialacarte.co.uk and PM me if you have any questions or would like to check availability. We always give special discounts to snowheads! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hoppo, Never had any problems with Inghams either.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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We've been with Inghams, Crystal, Neilsons & Ski Independence. We only use the TOs as a means of getting to and from the resort. In order, I'd rank Ski Independence as the best, followed by Inghams, Neilsons & Crystal.
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Renry, tend to book independant where possible only using TOs as a last resort. Will echo what others have said, much better service with the smaller, more specialised companies.
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Renry, Used Crystal (cheap and sometimes useful), Thomsons and ski independence
The later were the best
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for the quick response guys
Making plans for late Jan early feb. Its great when you start to look.
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I've used:
Airtours
Oak Hall
Panorama
Ski the American Dream
Ski Independence
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Renry, Late Jan is a good time to go, perhaps we can tempt you to try a small independent TO. We've got some great deals in Jan and flights to Geneva are much better value then, more choice as well. Have a look at our ad in snowShops, we give discounts to snowheads and make an equivalent contribution to the site or go to our website ww.tracksvacations.com for more details. I don't think I've mentioned it but we specialise in La Rosiere.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 13-07-06 18:49; edited 2 times in total
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Renry, I'd say, never use a TO if you can help it. They cream off the top and I don't know any who actually care if you have a good holiday or not - they just want bums on beds. If you must use a TO try the small independent ones, and never book anything else with them (liftpasses, ski school, ski hire). They go to whoever will give them the biggest commission, not the best or the best value.
I know, I'd jaded and cynical, but it's based on more than 30 years of experience from both ends!
Snowheads are undoubtedly the exceptions! 
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You know it makes sense.
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Renry, late-Jan is low season (early Feb less so) so if you've got a fairly small group and are flexible on where you go you'll probably be able to get a package at a knock-down price if you can hold your nerve and book a week or two before you go.
I've used Panorama and Crystal before - both cheap and reasonably cheerful and booked in the days before the internet had taken off and Thomson although their website is awful and hasn't improved in the 5 years since I booked with them.
If you do go with a TO I would suggest not to book your ski hire through them as you usually don't save anything and you end up in a shop with 50 other people. Lift passes can be worth getting via the TO as they'll usually have these ready for you when you arrive/at breakfast on the first day which saves you a bit of queuing.
[edited to add], it's easy enough to check lift pass prices on-line so you can always tell if the TO is scamming you and buy your own if they're charging over the odds.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 13-07-06 18:37; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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i've used,
inghams
crystal
neilson
and i will never ever again use any of them for anything
basically anything they can do, i can do better (as the famous song goes)
but seriously they are crap. If you do your homework you can get 1000000000 times better and cheaper holiday doing it yourself, and it really isn't that much extra bother.
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Poster: A snowHead
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snowangel., I agree 100%.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Cutting my own throat, I know but I can see some advantages in a package namely if one part of it starts to go wrong the rest of it shouldn't fall apart e.g if your flight's delayed by 2 hours the coach will still be waiting for you at the other end whereas the private transfer you've booked may well have gone.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ben wrightThat's why I prefer to hire a car at the airport, and be the masters of our own destiny. I think I may recommend a package to a beginner skier, as it's complicated enough just getting there without organising your own lessons, and ski hire etc too. The more times we'd skied though the less reliant we became on the TO's and so we decided we didn't need them anymore.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ben wright, i dont know what transfer service you use but i think you neeed to loof for another!
We do transfers and i would NEVER leave a client waiting for a transfer at an airport. I had a couple last year get delayd by 3 hours. I dutifully sat waiting at Grenoble airport for them for that 3 hours. When we finally left we headed for the Frejus tunnel, it was only after 1 hour and a bit of driving that we came to a sign telling us it was closed!!! I then had to drive back to grenoble and take the very long route via sisteron (4 hour drive) to get to serre che. It was the longest day of my life but i came out of it with 2 very lovely friends!
If you commit to something you stick to it, in my book anyway!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Helen Beaumont, Now you see we organise them too, both ski lessons and ski hire.
Its amazing the deals you can make when your living in resor  and everyone benefits!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
you can always tell if the TO is scamming you and buy your own if they're charging over the odds.
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In ten years of working for an assortment of TOs, I have yet to find one selling passes at more than public price. It works like this:
1. You buy the passes you need at a wholesale rate and then sell them on at retail
2. You buy on a 'contrat lit' basis whereby you are obliged to take as many passes as you have beds each week but get them at a very cheap rate (you take a bit of a risk on this as you may not fill all your beds - hence the cheap rate)
3. You buy and sell them at public price and the lift company gives you a remise at the end of the season depending on how many you have sold.
I agree with HB and snowangel that your average TO can't offer you anything you can't get for yourself. However, bear in mind that lots of people don't have the time/energy/confidence/language skills, nor the advantage of owning property in resort. Families in particular often like the reassurance of having everything organised for them and back-up available from the operator/ABTA/ATOL etc should anything go TU at any point. I should also point out that while there are indubitably some rubbish TO staff out there (and I should know - I've sacked a few), lots of us do in fact take a passing interest in the wellbeing of our guests now and then, and it verges on the offensive to suggest that we don't.
Independent travel is here to stay and it suits many people (it's what I'd be doing, for sure). However it's not everyone's cup of tea, and why should it be? Each to his own.
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Lizzard, good points, well made!
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Lizzard, nice informative summary. Straightforward and fair. Who do you currently work for or do you take the summer off 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think we'll continue to do a mixture of the two - DIY to Val Thorens because we know the place. TO to places we don't know so well.
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snowangel., don't do too badly ourselves on the discounts we get when we rent skis, and book ski lessons. I just need to try and sort something out for guests. We were surprised how many French locals greeted us last month when we were over there. That transfer day wa obviously the same one our guests managed to arrive 11 hours late after a similar journey from Grenoble. I even contact Mel the night before and then contact the guests to warn them of bad weather, but I don't think they must have listened to what I said, as they'd still headed for the Lauteret.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I recommend Silver SKi, the staff are phenomenal
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Lizzard, good points. I think as Hoppo says, familiarity with the resort helps too, although we did DIY to Whistler and saved a fortune. I did save on lift passes in Banff, as the TO didn;t offer the option of a youth pass for the individual mountains and only sold tri-area passes with ski bus included. As we had a car, we didn't need the bus, and saved almost 400 dollars.
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If there's only two of you travelling, its the transfer from airport to resort that can be tricky - and expensive. It's easier if the TO does it for you and we've never had to wait in the bus for other flights to come in, normal wait about 10-20 mins for the rest of the passengers to get their luggage & on to coach.
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You know it makes sense.
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Nadenoodlee, 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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have to stick up for some of the stuff being said about TO staff. Please dont tar them all with the same brush. We have done 3 trips with Ski Olympic, and 3 with Silver Ski and on each trip the staff have been absolutley superb. If I get similar treatment on my trip in Feb to a private chalet I will be delighted. Whoever is in charge of recruitment at these companies deserves a medal. I have done 3 Mark Warner trips and can say their staff are just the same (if a lot more expensive). Friends rave about Finlays, but none of us would chose The BIG boys if we were looking for value or service.
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Poster: A snowHead
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cathy, you've been extrenely fortunate then.We have waited in Chambery (in the freezing cold),Geneva, and Turin at Easter (in baking heat), for up to 2 hours, never again. I can usually hire a reasonable car for the cost of a transfer for two. I think I was quoted 70 pounds each from Turin to Serre Chevalier. Our car from Geneva (couldn't get a flight to Turin) cost us about the same, obviously before fuel, but the convenience and time saved makes up for it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As I think has been mentioned on other threads sometimes tour op prices can be hard to beat - January, weeks post easter, quite a few places in N America - Crystal had some deals last year to Colorado that were cheaper than I could find a flight. Now if you're crammed into a chalet it might not be to everyone's taste but if you just look on it as flight, transfer & a bed then why not? The main problem I have is that they tend to be geared to nuclear couples & families not say 3 guys going together or perish the thought a solo trip.
For the savvy family, as most of the sHs on here booking flights for feb half term seem to be, ovbiously DIY will beat peak package pricing but don't forget that most skiers consciously avoid school holidays if they have any choice.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've always found Mark Warner to be excellent.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Scott Dunn were fabulous as well.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lizzard, Well said. I am in the package holiday business and there is no mileage for us in trying to rip folks off. We are not "here to-day gone tomorrow folks", otherwise we would be out of business in a trice.
We are in the business to make money, that's for sure. We take more than 50,000 folks per year ski-ing and I reckon we provide a good value for money holidays.
Making money is not synonymous with rubbish service. We spend a lot of time and money trying to differentiate our product giving people great ski-ing holidays. We need to do this to make sure that we maintain a reasonable market share year on year.
When the weather closes in and the roads are blocked, we (the tour operator) get people home at no extra cost. Book yourself a tailor made holiday and get your self stranded in bad weather, and you will pay extra to get home and get no refund for the flights that you missed. Self assembly packages are fine for the more experienced traveller, but they don't suit everybody - 50000 folks in our case!!
easiski, As a respected "Snowhead" by many of us including myself I am surprised by your comments.
There are good and bad tour operators in the same way as there are good and bad in many walks of life.
Tour operators are no different but we (and I mean the larger Tour Operators) do our best to try to deliver good value for money holidays to a broad church of the public.
Remember, in the event that there are problems with your holiday the larger tour operators are better placed to deal with problem situations than the smaller niche operators. May be this can be an important consideration when choosing your next ski-ing holiday. 
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First choice have given us a few great deal holidays over the years and the reps have always been fine->good. Also used ski france and topps travel both of which were excellent (for the money) aj xx
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| Quote: |
Lizzard, nice informative summary. Straightforward and fair. Who do you currently work for or do you take the summer off
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Now there's a question! Currently more or less off and between employers, but deciding between two for next winter:
TO A: worked for them before, know everyone, enjoyed it. Specialist schools/groups operator, good resort which I like. Know the hotel, the company and the staff.
TO B: much nicer (but much bigger) hotel. All mainstream adult/family clientele, which would round out my experience and probably make me more marketable in future with both UK and French employers. Big company, mixed reports about them as employers.
Remuneration about the same on balance. Decisions!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| I think I may recommend a package to a beginner skier, as it's complicated enough just getting there without organising your own lessons, and ski hire etc too. . |
But that's exactly how the poor things end up with rubbish lessons, rubbish equipment and get off on completely the wrong foot. The first week is the most important one. Beginner skiers deserve better than the 12 per class because the ESF (or AN other school) is prepared to give the TO 25% commision on the lessons! Some of the shops here give them 40% for the hire!!
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Lizzard, Sorry, but "a passing interest" is not the same as caring. How many TOs or TO staff have you ever met who are actually personally affected by whether a client's holiday is successful. That's what I mean by caring. You may be the exception, but I've never met anyone.
DAVID SNELL, Sorry if you're offended, but I've been in too many shops to see the ski hire from TOs - I've suffered from some of it in the past myself - had to pay twice once in Meribel (Mark Warner) to get a decent pair of skis cos the shop they dealt with only had 5 year old cr@p. Shop says "what size are you?" - here's your boots. No checking the size, no fitting advice, no suggestion that you can bring them back if they don't fit. Cr@p skis handed out willie nilly, regardless of the person's experience and size/weight etc. Bindings not set properly (only one ski done for one of my clients last year).
Lift passes: I checked all the big TOs last year, and the only one to guarantee you wouldn't pay more than resort price was Nielsons. Pay in the UK and you pay for the TO to make sure they don't lose money on the exchange rate.
I've done airport transfers for Inghams, and had to explain to peeps from flights why they have to wait 4 hours for another flight that's delayed before they can leave the airport (almost a weekly occurrance). I've seen thousands of beginner skiers put off by the TO classes (and most of the "big boys" are partout en france with the ESF because of the commission)... I could carry on, but I need to go for my run.... too many years' bad experiences both for myself and my students.
I do suspect that the smaller, niche operators are better, but you can't care about 50,000 people can you?
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FAQ
