 Poster: A snowHead
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Interested to hear which ski area advanced / expert skiers would consider the most challenging, not just the odd couple of runs / offpiste
A few canadian instructors coming across from Vancouver next season, considering where to take them
Tignes / Valds'ere
Verbier
Your thoughts and suggestions!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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La Rosiere....
... I kind of miss the jokes about the place. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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La Grave
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Krippenstein
/end of thread
You probably won't have heard of it so google it, it ain't your typical resort....
There is Chamonix "death sports capital of the world" obviously
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Chamonix & La Grave would be the biggies I'd have thought. Krippenstein looks interesting! Do they want to do any touring?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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La grave = The Serious. I'd say Chamonix overall.
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wanting to go to krippenstein, was featured in Nimbus Independents "en route austria" looks amazing skiing.
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Engelberg, CH
Alagna, IT
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Krippenstein and La Grave are both similar in that a simple lift system opens up access to a huge amount of terrain. Neither is what you would really call a resort in the classic sense of mountain restaurants, big base, hotels, bars etc. The village of Hallstatt near Krippenstein would be a great place to take visitors from over the Atlantic for a flavor of Europe (stunning village by the lake). Both places though are quite exposed to bad weather which can shut them down. Similarly Alagna is also built round a big tram (or two) which opens up lots of terrain. And again if the weather comes in it can shut things down. And again the village is pretty if relatively quiet. Obviously the plus side of weather like this is that when it snows in these places it really does snow (Alagna two seasons ago got absolutely pasted). I guess you might put Les Grands Montets in a similar category (small base, big lift, huge amount of terrain) although it has Chamonix right by it with hotels, restaurants and partying on tap as well as all the related slopes.
And along with the larger resorts you mention I would add the Arlberg given the huge range of options it opens up. Along with an Apres Ski experience which is pretty challenging in itself!
I reckon depending on how long they had I would probably go for Chamonix or the Arlberg. If they had the time and money and you had the weather you could add in a few days in La Grave (if you were in France) or Krippenstein (in Austria) if you wanted to make it a tour (if you made them the focus in themselves you might risk being stuck in bad weather and not skiing much which could be a bore if you had come all the way from Canada).
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I've met an American friend for skiing in Austria. He didn't find the Austrian apres appealing and was quite dissapointed with the snow and having to stay on the pistes most of the time. If a cosy resort isn't a must, then Les Arcs is better IMHO. The snow record is good (better then Verbier), the slopes are steep, and it's a large resort (not an amalgam of small areas like Cham) that is still less crowded (compared to Val disere or St Anton). You can cross over to La Plagne (lift linked) to find some interesting off piste http://pistehors.com/backcountry/wiki/Savoie/La-Plagne-Off-Piste
the only problem is that it's a big name to "check off the list" and that the villages are really not pretty
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
I've met an American friend for skiing in Austria. He didn't find the Austrian apres appealing and was quite dissapointed with the snow and having to stay on the pistes most of the time.
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.....ok the apres ski I can understand but the 'having to stay on the pistes most of the time.' is his own choice!
The Kripp is a great area but quite limited. If you are looking at Austria I would consider getting the Super Salzburger Ski pass. Then you can cover a massive amounts of area and ski somewhere new every day.
You get all of the Ski Amadé area, plus the Ski Circus and loads of other little places.... so look at it as a ski safari... loads of places to go and loads of different things to do!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yeah, that would be top of my list too.
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Another 'simple lift opening up lots of terrain' option would be Nordkette, just above Innsbruck. Absolutely phenomenal with good snow, varied terrain options but the steep couloirs off the main face are the big attraction. If the snowclouds blow down the Inn valley they get trapped against the main face, and as it's quiet the fresh stays around for a while. Could combine it with Krippenstein and the Arlberg too, depending on how much time you have.
Any ideas how long it would take to drive from Innsbruck to Krippenstein - potential day trip, or too far for that?
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You know it makes sense.
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clarky999, about 6 hours round trip, with good road/weather/traffic conditions.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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For experiences skiers looking for something as close to wild skiing as it gets while still using lifts for uplift it has to be La Grave. There are (virtually) no pistes, so it's solid off-piste heaven. You will need a guide to get the best out of it though. Skiers' Lodge provide good guiding, a reasonable, no nonsense accomodation and some great food. Check out http://www.skierslodge.com/legend/ for details on some of the big descents. There is also no avalanche control (beyond the guides morning patrol knocking off the worst of it), so it's often closed for a day or two after a big dump. There is then excellent stuff to do over in Serre Chevalier or Montgenevre (about an hour's drive away). Skiers Lodge have their own minibuses to take groups over there when conditions merit it. If you want only individual days guiding, the Bureau des Guides (www.guidelagrave.com) is good value.
First time I went to La Grave, there was a group of Americans doing 3 days there and then driving over to Alagna for another few days. I've done a couple of weeks in the Alagna area, and the skiing is very good there also. There is more piste skiing, but probably not quite the opportunity for alternatives if the weather conspires against you. You're probably better off staying in Gressoney than Alagna itself, as that gives you more opportunity for piste skiing in bad weather, or access to other areas (still need a car to get elsewhere though).
For something closer to resort style skiing, I was very impressed this year by what was available in La Plagne. There is some pretty serious skiing in the Roche de Mio and Bellecote areas. The rest of it was pretty ordinary, but that end of it was pretty special - several days worth of serious skiing to be had there. (Edit) I'd also support St Anton (Arlberg) as offering this type of mixed skiing. Not a cheap place, but if you're needing to economise there's more acceissible stuff without hiring a guide. You can pick up individual guided days either through the ski school or www.PisteToPowder.com (highly recommended, but not exactly cheap).
I've not heard of Krippenstein before - but sounds interesting. From those recommending it, is it really in the same league as La Grave/Alagna(/Bellecote)?
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sat 22-05-10 18:24; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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| PJSki wrote: |
| clarky999, about 6 hours round trip, with good road/weather/traffic conditions. |
Sorry, you mean there and back? Do-able I guess, probably better staying a night though...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arlberg, Austria
350km of Deep Powder Off Piste Routes.
250km of Groomers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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In the St Anton/Arlberg area also look at Stuben, not been but heard good things. With a lot of these places local knowledge is king and the real determining factor, it would be hard to go far wrong with any of the suggestions in this thread.
I'd also post this on TGR.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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A few years back, I happened to spend a week in a Chalet in Tignes with an Instructor from Whistler.
The lads I was away with had been going for over 10 years and he ended up skiiing with our group all week. He was smiling ear to ear all week with the vast terrain on offer, compared to Whistler/Blackcomb.
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| narc wrote: |
In the St Anton/Arlberg area also look at Stuben, not been but heard good things. With a lot of these places local knowledge is king and the real determining factor, it would be hard to go far wrong with any of the suggestions in this thread.
I'd also post this on TGR. |
Stuben is in Der Arlberg (St Anton, St Christoph, Stuben, Lech, Zurs)
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Any of the above. Except Alagna. It can be great but it's usually not. (family have a house in Champoluc as the OH's father came from there - so we see it quite often...). Awesome for touring, but off piste conditions often unfantastic from a powder hunting pov.
Compared to Chamonix, Verbier, Val d'Espaire/Tignes, St Anton. TBH, if the weather's pants, you want to still be able to have a great day out. I'd suggest you also want a little of the "European" experience.
Krippenstein sounds very interesting, La Grave on the list...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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1969jma, I'd also vote for La Grave. From there you can not only ski all the possible routes (how extreme do you want to get?), but you can also ski St Christophe, Les Deux Alpes (more than you'd think); Alpe d'Huez and Serre chevalier. ADH would be the furthest from La Grave and is about 1.5 hours by car. March is the best month normally. In addition, La Grave itself is a fabulous, old, traditional French mountain village.
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| easiski wrote: |
| I'd also vote for La Grave. ........ ADH would be the furthest from La Grave and is about 1.5 hours by car.. |
. If the timing worked out for it, they might also be able to do the short chopper ride between LDA & ADH instead of driving.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
.....ok the apres ski I can understand but the 'having to stay on the pistes most of the time.' is his own choice!
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Not really, since the snow cover was not great (to say thae least), and also he's not into AT or long climbs in ski boots. He likes "skiing trees" but only "lift served" and "inbounds". Hence, I offered a resort that has challenging skiing that doesn't require mountaneering skills. Actually La Grave + Les 2 Alps or Alpe d'huez (maybe stay in one of the big resorts and go to La Grave anly in good vis and good snow) is also a good idea.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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sorry sugardaddy I just thought you made a rather gross generalisation of Austria based on one trip that you had with a chap form the USA... my mistake.... 
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[quote="sugardaddy"]
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only "lift served" and "inbounds". |
Would he really not do a 20 or 30 minute walk to get to fresh powder with no tracks?
Sorry to say it yet again, but there is no such thing as "out of bounds" or "in bounds" in Europe, all off piste is the same. So what do you mean by this? All European resorts you need a guide to experience most of the off-piste areas (or lots of avalanche and snow-craft knowledge, plus someone with local knowledge or a good map and guide-book). Many places, such as St Anton or Val d'Isere you can join groups of your own standard to ski off piste with a guide. (By guide I would normally mean a proper UAIGM qualified "Guide de Haute Montagne", though I have had a great time skiing the Tarrentaise with one non-UIAGM guide. Obviously in this latter case we could not ski Glaciers since only UIAGM guides can guide there.)
Verbier should probably be on the list but St Anton is my favourite and La Grave is more single-mindedly extreme and concentrated. Chamonix is great if you hit good snow but too often the south facing slopes get trashed by the sun and the others gets skied out rather quickly despite the big area (unless you are prepared to skin) because there are so many good skiers there. This latter can sometimes be true of La Grave, too.
Les Arcs/La Plagne (includes Bellecote North face) is an area close to Tignes/Val d'Isere and you might consider doing both.
You can also ski Montgenevre from La Grave (though it is a longish drive it might be worth it once). There is wonderful tree skiing there, especially just over the Italian border, and very few people ski it.
In general, in Europe, you can ski lift served stuff (perhaps supplemented by a short walk) long after the last snow and still ski powder if you have someone to show you where it is.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Sun 23-05-10 17:30; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Any of the above places may yield fantastic skiing on the right day but all the epic terrain in the world means nothing if the snow is poor. Hence I would not get hung up on one resort and, unless I had to, I would be reluctant to take a punt on what conditions are going to be like weeks in advance. Follow the snow. Pick a base with good transport links, hire a car and drive to find good conditions. I'd go somewhere in the Geneva region, giving you Chamonix and Courmayeur + a bunch of other stuff in one direction and Verbier and a range of other less well known resorts in range in the other direction - especially if you head a bit further up the Rhone valley.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The trouble is guides. If you want to ski challenging off piste you you really need to decide what you want and investigate that before going. The ones I use for my groups are mostly booked up months before the season starts. Or you can go with Topski or Piste to Powder etc and get put in a group.
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Poster: A snowHead
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1. Chamonix;
2. La Grave;
3. Engelberg.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowball, I your point. I tend not to ski with a guide. This season I spent four days with guides out of the hundred or so I skied. I'm just slightly conscious of the time I've spent in both alagna and lg scratching around on hardpack because I had been insufficiently flexible with my objectives.
If I had to pick one place it would be verbier as there is usually powder left somewhere if you are willing to walk.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| snowball wrote: |
| The trouble is guides. If you want to ski challenging off piste you you really need to decide what you want and investigate that before going. The ones I use for my groups are mostly booked up months before the season starts. Or you can go with Topski or Piste to Powder etc and get put in a group. |
Or learn to look after yourself? I've only spent 10 days in total with guides - for me the point of them is to find me good stuff to ski in places that I don't know, rather than to look after me. Like a walking talking guidebook. Saying that, on glaciated stuff I'd rather have a guide, but I don't spend much time on glaciers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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For all the Canadians I know, then just about *any* of the massive interlinked resorts in Europe will blow their socks off: it's so unlike anything they have even seen before that they'll just love it. DON'T try to replicate the Canadian Experience: give them a European one.
So I'd suggest either the Three Vallees, or the Dolomites. Plenty of skiing in either to keep them busy.
When are they coming? That may have an impact on your choice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gorilla, yep, sounds sensible to me...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Nearest Airport / transfer time and suggested accommodation (cheapish, if there is such) for
1 La Grave
2 Engelberg
3 Arlberg
4 La Rosiere
Taking further interest in these as I havent skied personally whereas I have with suggested others, selfish I know!
The canadians will be here for 6 weeks + feb - April
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1969jma, don't take them to La Rosiere 
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Yeah, not too sure about the suggestion coming in at no 4... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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With 6 weeks to play with you can just about do the lot! Has the makings of a truly "aaaaasum" trip.
St Anton and Engelberg both accessible easily by train from Zurich (about 2.5-3 hours each). St Anton also about 1hr from Innsbruck. All relevant details on www.sbb.ch . When I went to Engelberg I skied at St Anton until about 4:30pm before jumping on the train to get to Engelberg by about 11pm. Engelberg's probably not worth more than about 4 days unless you're willing to tour to access further out terrain.
La Grave: Lyon (about 2h45) or Grenoble (about 45 mins closer, but fewer flights) airports, if driving yourself. Also train to Grenoble. Various public transport, although not particularly frequent (2 or 3 buses per day, http://www.vfd.fr/horaires/ler35-du-26-04-2010-au-01-07-2010 ) from Grenoble or Briancon. Can take buses towards Les Deux Alpes and then hitch/taxi the last 15km.
La Rosiere: bus (?) from Bourg-St-Maurice. Maybe best getting there by train (TGV all the way Paris to BSM, or direct Eurostar from London). If flying, Geneva or Lyon both about 3-4 hours away. But if going that way go to Paradiski/VdI/Tignes/3V instead. If there's been a recent dump, I'm told Ste Foy is well worth a day or two.
If doing a mega trip, definintely take a car and follow the snow.
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The Arlberg and St Anton are best reached from Innsbruck, about an hour on the train. Munich is 2 - 2.5 hours away, Zurich 3.5 hours - all easy journeys on pretty much direct trains (you have to change once from Munich). Cheapest Accommodation at the St Anton end will be in one of the outlying villages - Pettnau and St Jacob are 10 mins away from the main resort on a free ski bus, and significantly cheaper, but you'll need a taxi if you want a heavy apres or night session as the busses aren't too regular between early evening and nightime.
In six weeks you can pretty much do the lot though, should be an ace trip if you tick off most of these resorts!!
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 24-05-10 14:45; edited 1 time in total
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FAQ
