What poles?

A snowHead

I've just come back from Sestriere, where I decided to try out loads of skis before buying a pair in order to take my mind off the rubbish snow conditions. I tried a couple of Salomon thingies I instantly forgot because I hated, the Atomic SX10 and SX11, and then the Volkl P60s in yellow (short turns), black (softer and easier to ski but lower performance) and red (quick and racy), and the Superspeeds. If anyone wants to hear my very amateur thoughts on any of those then ask away, but so as not to drone on, I ended up buying the yellow P60s in 165cm.

Anyway, this now means that I have my first pair of skis and that I have to buy a pair of poles, which is where I'd like some help please you lovely snowhead people....

My main concern is that my biggest problem is transferring my weight to the tips of my skis. However hard I try, I end up sitting back after a few turns and I see my tips fluttering around in the air instead of carving me a lovely long snake in the hardpack. So my theory is that if I get some shortish poles which bend backwards towards me (like racing ones) then I will have to get my arms and shoulders right forward to keep my pole tips in the right place, which should help bring my hips etc forward and help me ski better.

Is that a sensible theory, and if so what poles should I get? Thank you!!!

A snowHead

dmott, Leki used to make, might still do, ski poles called corrective angle, however, the bend is away from you. The idea was that most skiers do not plant their poles sufficiently far forward. I know this will sound patronising but you'll probably be better off getting some instruction, very few skiers that I see actually use their poles correctly. I know they are less relevant with modern skis but there are occasions when they are required. You should only use your wrists to plant your pole, not lift your arm. In my opinion, corrective angle poles aren't neccessary, good technique is.

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dmott, I would work on your carving technique and not rely on shorter poles to correct it. Neat pole plants will enhance good technique but IMO it shorter poles would not stop you sitting back. I would have more lessons and focus on getting your technique right.

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David@traxvax, I had a pair of these Lekis. As you say a slight forward bend just below the grip with the rest of the pole straight. Not like these racing style streamlined jobs. They also had a neat system for adjusting the straps. Recommended.

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Thanks for that. Fully agree I ought to get an instructor to take a look, but I've gone significantly past group ski school level now and as a poor student can't afford private lessons, relying instead on friends of my ability (an 8 probably, according to snowandrock.com's criteria) criticising each other and suggesting remedies! The problem with my carving is "simply" that I'm not quite getting enough weight onto the fronts of my skis - I understand exactly what I want to do, and most of the time in most conditions can do it, but just occasionally, and usually on ice, I slide my turns a little instead of carving them. When I really concentrate on getting my weight forward (assisted by getting upper body further forward) it feels better, but the problem is maintaining that and not getting sloppy - and that's where I thought the poles bent the other way to those Lekis would help, precisely because my pole planting is quite good... but I suppose the only real solution is to fork out the dosh and get an instructor to tell me what they always say "leeeen forward"!!

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dmott, I don't see why you want to plant your poles at all on a fully carved turn. AIUI (the pros will correct me later, if I'm wrong) pole planting is for shorter radius turns that incorporate an element of foot steering. There's really no upper skill limit on group lessons and I would have thought you could get yourself in a suitable group if you accurately describe your abilities.

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I don't want to plant my poles into the snow unless I'm doing very short radius turns on steep (i.e. difficult black) slopes or moguls. In those cases I am trying to reduce the "foot steering" to a minimum and maximise the carve, particularly on the first part of the turn - anyone can swish, slip and skid around, but I'm trying to get properly good at doing it fast and under control on any slope in any snow conditions. When carving on any other kind of slope I don't plant my poles into the snow, but I do keep them just above it for balance purposes, in a more or less similar place to where they'd be if I was planting them.

As for group lessons, I've probably undersold myself slightly, but my brother and I have been easily the best skiers in the top group in the resorts we've been to for the last few years and were getting bored of hearing the same things and not being able to do the most testing exercises (like going down a black mogul run at speed) because the others in the group weren't up to it. Maybe in one of the larger French resorts we'd find like-minded people, but the people on the pistes who are better than us don't tend to want lessons, and the ski schools refuse to give us group rates with only people of our level because they can't find enough people and it isn't economically viable for them. Sadly, c´est la vie...

After all it is free

dmott, wouldn't just plain shorter poles work as well?

PS, if you look closely at the Hand Position thread in the Bend Ze Knees forum, I confess to sitting back as a result of dropping my head to where I can look at my ski tips. Embarassed

Adjusty (good grammah) length poles are useful if you're going of piste a lot and/or doing some trekking. However for everyday poles use and I'm sure you know about this,in your natural ski stance, hold the pole upside down with your hand just below the basket/tip and your elbow should form 90 deg. Not absolutely hard and fast I prefer a marginally short pole, emphasis on marginal (like 1-2cm). Pole use in Mogul and short turns is primarily to stabilise the upper body and helps to provide a sense of timing. It may be that you are planting too late and and slightly too near the body and this is forcing your shoulders back or around (up-hill) which leaves you in the back seat as you initiate the next turn. In moguls it can be heplful to either think of punching your fists forward as you plant, or pushing a gear stick forward, anything to actively push your hands and momentum down the fall line. For a carved turn poles are almost irrelevant I sometimes unconciously use them at slower speeds for timing but this is more of a habit, as you say at higher speeds poles are mainly there for ballance(and to drop in the lift queue). It's not so much that you want to get your weight way forward (those days are past) but that should think of the pressure starting on your toes and going back down your foot to the heel from the start to finish of the turn. i.e. skiing is much more through the sole of the foot these days, it may be that you are not getting pressure to the new turn ski early enough which shows on ice. The movement of your hips forward should come ideally from your feet then your core (pelvis/trunk) not from the shoulders.

If you don't want to spring for an instructor why not use a digital camera or video and have a mate record you and then look at your technique in comparison to say a skier you see who's technique you think is good.

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David@traxvax, you're right about the pole planting. That's the main thing that was covered in my private lesson this year, which was maintaining correct position of the arms, and pole planting with minimal upper body movement. At the time I thought that is was a really minor thing to be concentrating on, but as I've practiced more it makes a load of difference.

dmott, if I read your original post correctly, you're having problems with sitting back on your skis and losing control. I don't think that this correlates with a Snow and Rock expert "8" skier. I don't think that any particular type of poles are going to correct this hole in your technique, and would have to agree with the others who suggest a private lesson. Even if you only have a group lesson, the exercises that they teach in group lessons are just as valid, no matter what level of skier you are. I would suggest that this is even more true if you have problems in repeatedly ending up in the "back seat".

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snoflake, thanks for interesting points, think you and others may be right about getting slightly shorter poles. The ones I've had in ski rental shops have always seemed rather high but I didn't want to say anything. Was very interested to read what you say about getting your weight downhill by transferring weight via the soles. Until this last week I had always been concentrating on my centre of gravity (hence preocupation with getting upper body forward), but my brother suggested thinking about getting my toes into the turn, and it seemed to help things considerably, so that's probably the answer. I was all up for videoing this time but my digital camera didn't seem to like the cold and threw a bit of a strop when I tried using the zoom and gave up the ghost. Crying or Very sad

Kramer and others, thanks for suggesting getting advice on pole planting - will study all other posts on the subject before my next trip to work on it if it can have big effects. I probably used the wrong word when I said "sitting back" - what I meant to say was that it felt like my weight wasn't completely on the tips of my skis where I wanted it, and it wasn't a lack of control, more of a drop in the amount of carve I was getting. Hopefully thinking about the feet more than the centre of gravity will help this.

Unfortunately the ski season here in Madrid is well and truly over (despite oodles of snow over the previous couple of months) so I'm going to be confined to visiting "Xanadu", the Spanish version of "X-Scape", to escape the heat waves![/b]

Help!!

What poles?

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