 Poster: A snowHead
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I hope this has not already been posted - if so please ignore.
Le Dauphinee Libere reported 3 killed in an avalanche near Chamonix / Vallorcine yesterday and another in the Taillefer area.
It is not very surprising given the recent snow conditions. Yesterday, as many will know, had high winds at altitude with the consequent large and rapid accumulations of windslab on an already poorly bonded snowpack.
For some reason best known to Meteo France the avalanche risk in Savoie was only posted as a 2!!! In my opinion it must have been a 3+/4 yesterday. I personally was cross-country skiing (ski de fond - skating) at Bessans in the Haute Maurienne and observed several significant natural departures on the south facing slopes.
Enjoy your skiing and stay safe.
Edit - Link to Le Dauphine Libere article http://www.ledauphine.com/chamonix-une-enorme-avalanche-de-plaque-fait-trois-morts-@/index.jspz?article=285155
There's lots of discussion on the Skitour website at (in French only) http://www.skitour.fr/forum/read_148021.html The PGHM (peloton gendarmerie de haute montagne) from the Isere department even posted a request to avoid off-piste/ski-rando until it settles down a bit. Apparently they were called out 7 times in a period of 2hr 30 mins yesterday - all for avalanche related reasons!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 6-04-10 14:12; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Interesting comment about already poorly bonded snowpack. Right back at the beginning of the season, snow fell on wet slopes in some parts of the Alps, and trouble was forecast; I wonder if this is causing problems now.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Some died in the Gers at Flaine as well
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Interesting meteo bulletin in La Grave on Sunday: Avalanche risk 3....La Grave closed due to avalanche risk. Then we had a fantastic day yesterday, avalanche risk 4 all day.
We watched the first guy to go down Banane, setting off an avalanche which chased him down. He was doing fine until he stopped, probably for a bit of a breather, half way down, when he was swwpt down a short way, out of which he skied out to the side. One of his threee mates then started after him, and the snow seemed quite a bit more stable for him - we only watched the first two or three turns, and then went off to continue getting our own bits of fresh. I assume they were Scandies of some type  . When we got there about an hour later it was pretty heavily skied out.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I took this photo on Friday the 26th March in Courmayeur, its at the Ref Monti Bianco. Its a wet snow avalanche (it was a warm day) that was set off by some Norwegians off piste in the trees above the hut, one of them was killed.
Risk level 2! I think.
It came across the piste.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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We were in the Maurienne valley last week and a couple of lifts which served the highest peaks (to the 'best' off piste points) were closed as it was too dangerous according to the lift operators I spoke to. Mind you my French isn't that great but the words avalanche, risque and 'trop dangereux' were all used in the same phrase. Had a long discussion with my eldest son about avalanches and danger. He is just starting to explore off-piste and has had his awareness raised v.quickly
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Risk level 2! I think
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I suppose this emphasises that there is no such thing as zero risk. Coming down in safety better than coming down surrounded by tonnes of rapidly moving snow.
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"Globally the risk is low, locally there is danger of death"
Really sad news 
Sobering pic, jbob
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| marksavoie wrote: |
For some reason best known to Meteo France the avalanche risk in Savoie was only posted as a 2!!! In my opinion it must have been a 3+/4 yesterday. |
Mark, that is exactly what the Savoie bulletin said. Here are the pertinent lines:
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ESTIMATION DES
RISQUES JUSQU'A LUNDI SOIR :
En dessous de 2200 metres : RISQUE LIMITE (niveau 2)
Au dessus de 2200 metres : RISQUE MARQUE (niveau 3)
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Take somewhere like Val Thorens and you are already at risk 3 in the car park. At any other main Savoie resort take a lift and you are at risk 3.
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Mefiance alors des grandes faces NORD, NORD-EST qui n'ont pas beaucoup bouge depuis 10 jours (cumul proche de 130cm donc pas loin d'un risque 4)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi Davidof
I must admit to only taking a quick glance at MeteoFrance on Monday evening after hearing about the carnage and reading some of the posts on "skitour.fr" so I didn't delve deeper into the bulletin. I simply glanced at the map for Savoie showing "2" all over.
That said it seems that much of this, i.e. the forecast is ignored by too many. The "head in the sand approach" or "ignorance is bliss" approach seems to prevail. Another prevalent attitude seems to be, "I've got my ARVA (transceiver), probe and shovel so I can go where I like". This view is taken from a considerable period as a mountaineering instructor in Scotland and, sadly, zipping up the results as part of a busy Scottish MRT.
I enjoy ski-rando/alpinism but would like to continue to enjoy it for many years to come. My girlfriend's Dad at 75 just enjoyed skiing the Three Valleys from Orelle to Courchevel and back with 2 other companions of similar age. I hope I can still manage the same at that age. The Savoyards are a tough bunch.
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| marksavoie wrote: |
Hi Davidof
I must admit to only taking a quick glance at MeteoFrance on Monday evening after hearing about the carnage and reading some of the posts on "skitour.fr" so I didn't delve deeper into the bulletin. I simply glanced at the map for Savoie showing "2" all over.
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Yes you are quite right, on Monday evening they dropped the risk to 2 for the Savoie (and 1 lower down) and that surprised me as it did some other people you included. The risk figure is calculated statistically based on observations during the day of the number, size and slope aspect of avalanches.
MF have an avalanche bulletin in English which they issue to ski resorts... why don't they publish it on the web?
| marksavoie wrote: |
That said it seems that much of this, i.e. the forecast is ignored by too many. The "head in the sand approach" or "ignorance is bliss" approach seems to prevail. Another prevalent attitude seems to be, "I've got my ARVA (transceiver), probe and shovel so I can go where I like". This view is taken from a considerable period as a mountaineering instructor in Scotland and, sadly, zipping up the results as part of a busy Scottish MRT.
I enjoy ski-rando/alpinism but would like to continue to enjoy it for many years to come. My girlfriend's Dad at 75 just enjoyed skiing the Three Valleys from Orelle to Courchevel and back with 2 other companions of similar age. I hope I can still manage the same at that age. The Savoyards are a tough bunch. |
The real message I drew from your first post is that you looked around you, saw that the conditions looked dodgy, especially wind transport from north to south (remember it only takes a few hours to form a potentially deadly slab) and made the decision to do some cross country skiing. That is the sign of someone who can analyse a situation whatever MF tells him, a lesson for all of us there.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| davidof wrote: |
MF have an avalanche bulletin in English which they issue to ski resorts... why don't they publish it on the web?
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snowHeads should campaign to have it published. The online translated versions are very useful (kudos to pistehors for that) but it would be good if MF put thiers on the web as well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| marksavoie wrote: |
| Another prevalent attitude seems to be, "I've got my ARVA (transceiver), probe and shovel so I can go where I like". This view is taken from a considerable period as a mountaineering instructor in Scotland and, sadly, zipping up the results as part of a busy Scottish MRT. |
Truth, all that gear guarantees that that eventually someone will dig out a body. Additionally, the injuries and fatalities are often caused by trauma rather than suffocating and so saying "I can do a beacon search in x minutes I'll be fine" is no help here.
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| marksavoie wrote: |
| ........Another prevalent attitude seems to be, "I've got my ARVA (transceiver), probe and shovel so I can go where I like". This view is taken from a considerable period as a mountaineering instructor in Scotland and, sadly, zipping up the results as part of a busy Scottish MRT....... |
As you've been on a MRT, I respect you experience. OTOH, I've not been aware of that attitude. I've regularly skied with those so equipped - I can't think of a single companion who did not think that the best form of avalanche survival was avalanche avoidance - and being aware accordingly.
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