 Poster: A snowHead
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So who's got a green band then? I know it's jumping on the bandwagon but I have one to go with my yellow one! And it is for a good cause.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ive Got One
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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beanie1, great minds - I have had the LiveSTRONG one since last July. Got my Respect the Mountain one two weeks ago. Now just need a bright red one and I will have the Jamaican flag on my arm.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've had the yellow one since September and the blue one since Feb. Is 3 pushing it a bit far?!!! What flag is yellow green and blue?!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Brazil?
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Rwanda and Gabon, or if you add red, Mauritious.
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ginger winger,
Yes, non snow sport people don't understand why, but I like that! Plus it provides a talking point and then you can tell them why.
I see your point about the production being against the cause, but I wouldn't have thought they are produced on a big enough scale to have much effect. Plus it's as much about raising awareness as it is about raising money, so I think the benefits probably outweigh the cost.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Of course there's one other thing that has me puzzled, why is it called a respect the mountain wristband when the money raised will go towards buying trees in the UK ? 
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D G Orf,
I think it's because global warming as a whole is melting alpine glaciers. So planting trees elsewhere, and generally helping the environment will slow down the climate change in the Alps.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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beanie1, it's a nice theory but it doesn't really work very well, you need in many cases to replace trees where they have been lost, trees / foliage has a significant effect on rainfall as well as a small effect on CO2 reduction, the vast majority of CO2 is apparently absorbed by ocean plantlife, however trees do effect things like rainfall in tropical areas of the world, they also significantly reduce errosion, I think enviromental experts will tell you that climate change is not just about greenhouse gasses, rainfall paterns are changing partly as a result of deforestation and changing patterns of land use, if you want to have a more significant effect buy up areas of tropical rainforrest and only allow sustainable harvesting of timber
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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beanie1. The Woodland Trust, which is planting trees with money raised from SCGB subscriptions and apparently 50% of funds accrued from the sale of the wristbands, does not make those claims.
It would be nice to believe that tree planting counteracts global warming, but the life/death cycle of a tree determines whether - in the long term - any carbon dioxide is extracted from the atmosphere. CO2 will be absorbed by the tree as it grows, but if the timber eventually rots or burns the CO2 is returned.
As a colleague on the SCGB Environmental Group helpfully pointed out there is a finite amount of carbon on our planet. Matter cannot be destroyed or created. Since manmade global warming is generated by the burning of fossil fuels normally locked safely underground, it is likely that the only way to permanently remove excess CO2 from the atmosphere is to liquify the gas and bury it, or convert it back into some form of solid or liquid carbon-based compound.
This is not to say that tree planting is not an excellent activity, promoting ecological balance and diversity.
beanie1, do you have an interest in promoting sale of the wristbands, or are you a private disinterested person?
[I've written the above as a member of the SCGB Environmental Working Group, but not on behalf of the Group or Club]
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Of course, coal and oil are old forests, so planting the trees and then burying them may have an accelerating affect on CO2 reduction. OTOH if you use only (sustainably sourced) wood for your heating and fuel, you have made your house more carbon neutral - though you're releasing other pollutants. Of course, wood fires release particulates which can be used to form precipitation, so there is a remote possibility that you'll seed the snow clouds that add to the Alpine glaciers and glacier growth/shrinkage is determined by input (snowfall) versus output (melting). That in turn may increase the Earth's albedo which may bring temps. down. Bit of a long shot though.
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You know it makes sense.
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David Goldsmith,
No, no interest other than a love of the mountains. What I wrote was my interpretation of what I read on the SCGB website - if I've got it wrong then it's not very clear! Started the thread just to see who was going to be wearing the bands and provoke a bit of debate.
What's your answer to D G Orf, 's question?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Diverting slightly on a tangent, the concept of biomass for creating electricity is interesting. The idea is that you use wood chips (often from willow) to mix with coal in coal-fired power stations. The concept is that, from the wood chips, you are releasing only the carbon that was absorbed whilst the tree was growing. So, if the wood was grown specifically for the purpose, the process is carbon neutral, so far as the wood-chip element of the fuel is concerned. I have seen conflicting comment on its efficacy. Perhaps one problem is that not all the tree i converted inot wood chips?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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beanie1, as mentioned on another thread the Respect the Mountain project is not one that the SCGB Environmental Working Group has been involved with, so I can't answer that specifically.
I can, however, explain why the Group recommended to the Club that trees be planted in the UK from the 50p environmental levy on Club subscriptions - trees benefit the landscape, environment and ecology wherever they are planted.
On a personal note I'd say that skiing needs to get its environmental act together if it's not to be seen as a destructive activity. This will involve 'environmental compensation' on a fairly large scale.
Unfortunately a couple of commercial tree planting organisations (which shall remain nameless) jumped on the bandwagon recently and made controversial claims about the 'carbon neutralising' or 'carbon balancing' effects of planting trees. A number of rock stars etc. got excited about supporting these organisations, which generated some misleading publicity. Reputable long-established tree-planting bodies such as the Woodland Trust, Tree Council and others do not make these claims.
If there's one imperative in dealing with the environment it's truth in the message. This is not an area for hype or c0wdoo. People understandably require true scientifically-secure information.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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AFIK, skis are not re-cyclable. - and thus go to landfill when they are disposed of. So, perhaps one of the best things skiers can do to reduce environmental impact is to hire skis, if they are not going to use their own to exhaustion (which I doubt most UK skiers do).
Getting back to the Ski Club, there is not all that much it can do quickly, IMO. It is there to meet the needs of its memebers, not dictate to them. Even so, it has started highlighting the problem of envionmental impact to ite members. And it does offer a range of ski touring holidays, surely one of the least harmful ways of skiing.
Mind you, on the week's touring holiday that I went on recently, we used just one chairlift - once - for the entire week. Imagine the impact on the world's lift systems, if everybody did the same. There'd be a big adverse financial impact, I'm sure. So it gets back to whether people are serious about environmental impact, or just want to talk about it. I guess the Club's done its part, at this stage, in triggering off the debate.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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D G Orf, I won't seek to challenge your perception of what your club is doing for the environment - HQ is perfectly capable of doing the propaganda!
What we know (unless so many international climate scientists are wrong) is that the global warming trend is extremely serious, and growing, and won't be countered with token gestures.
Since the Club got its teeth into environmental concerns I've lobbied for the organisation to adopt a Kyoto-compatible carbon emissions policy (which any UK organisation should now have, since the UK government is supposedly committed to this vital treaty).
We could all start by pulling out of heli-skiing - a very dispensible indulgence - which should have been banned under European law (IMHO). Aircraft fuel should now be rationed or taxed to the hilt, forcing the issue of how we get around Europe in a less polluting fashion.
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David Goldsmith, a very valid point, on average a train journey of 10,000 km gives out roughly 1 trees worth of CO2 an aircraft travelling the same distance gives off roughly 5 times the CO2, Europe has a wonderful system of railways, it's a shame that we don't make greater use of them.
Nick Zotov, Skis can be recycled as very nice garden furniture and snowboards make excellent benches
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ginger winger, actually you might be surprised as it's not as bad as you might think
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As I say I was just speculating on that one!!
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Apparently one of the problems with aircraft is that their polution goes straight to the upper atmosphere
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| ...Nick Zotov, Skis can be recycled as very nice garden furniture and snowboards make excellent benches |
There must be an awful lot of ski garden furniture about 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| ... Aircraft fuel should now be rationed or taxed to the hilt, forcing the issue of how we get around Europe in a less polluting fashion. |
Fascinating that the government has chosen to tax GNER for the privilege of running a raliway, thus helping it be more uncompetitive against aircraft.
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Nick Zotov, yes well it just goes to show exactly what the Government thinks of the enviroment, it's often cheaper to fly than go by rail, there has to be something wrong with that, mind you it costs more to travel by train than it does to go by car, that's a serious disincentive to train travel 
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You know it makes sense.
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Yup, let's hope that the government's commitment to getting the high-speed link to St Pancras open (next year, I think) will then lead to links further north and a real boost to continental rail travel at reasonable prices.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David Goldsmith, your optimisim does you credit, however I'd like to point out that when the Eurostar first came in we were told that it would have a South Coast branch and one going to Strasbourg and possibly beyond, no sign of either these days 
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Poster: A snowHead
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David Goldsmith, It is time to look at the way our rail infrastructure has been prostituted to greed and profit to all our detriment. When it’s actually cheaper to buy a car and drive it to Leeds and back than to catch a train (Top Gear experiment), then there’s a fundamental fiscal fraud in our rail system.
Once you get onto the continent rail travel is a reasonable alternative and good value. Not always the most convenient routes but good value.
ie. looking at a some ticket stubs from last Oct. BsM to Paris 62Euro (4.25 hrs travel time) Paris to the Smoke 141Euro (3hrs travel time).
But let’s face it, rail travel for inter Europe ski destinations is more convenient than many flights if you’re organising your own itinerary.
We’re all to used to having TOs spoon feed us and wipe our bums and as the TOs margins are being cut to the bone and their service levels are beginning to deteriorate, all of a sudden we’re having to think about the alternatives.
Ferry prices are in free fall (at least on the Dover routes), Many of the Euroline buses are truly luxurious. And if you catch a bus to Dover and take a foot passenger ticket, you can get into the European rail system for less than 20£.
OK, I’m cheap but self drive and air travel are both very polluting and extraordinarily stressful so my preference will always be bus and rail.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| Europe has a wonderful system of railways, it's a shame that we don't make greater use of them. |
Well I can be pretty smug here because both of my trips to the Alps this season have been by train. One was the direct Eurostar service and the second was booked independently using the Eurostar to Paris and the regular sleeper service to Bourg.
The first was easy but uncomfortable (even in first class). The second was an adventure and was an absolute pleasure. For once, the journey felt like part of the holiday - the sleeping arrangements were great (a T2 sleeper compartment) and the fact that there were very few English on the service made us realise that we were actually in France. It was so stress free (even with crossing Paris) that it is definitely my favourite method of getting to the Haute Savoie.
And the cost? The direct Eurostar cost the same as you would expect to pay for a sleazyjet flight unless you get it as soon as it becomes available. The sleeper service was more but then we chose luxury - we could have done the whole thing for £200 each return, which is less than a budget flight plus transfers at either end. When you include the fact that two nights on the train gives you either lower accomodation costs or more time on the slopes, it really does seem like an economic option.
Train travel in Europe is efficient and cost effective. The same cannot be said about this country but that's another story (my trainee had to go from London to Swansea today, returning tomorrow. The ticket was booked yesterday but the cheapest ticket available was £160 - it would be much cheaper to drive)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque, I don't know about green wristbands but you're definitely in the running for Brownie points for that contribution.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Back on Topic! ( never thought id get to say that!)
Im not into this wristband revolution stuff, ive got one and it only gets worn occasionally- its a "Live Wrong" one, symbolising binge drinking, casual sex and drug taking. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Nadenoodlee, so what colour is it?!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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pollittcl, its black!
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| Tony Lane wrote: |
| .... for £200 each return, which is less than a budget flight plus transfers at either end. |
Really? Return flight Luton - Basel cost me £45. Bus fares between airport and railway station CHF 7.60. Rail fare return to Andermatt was CHF 120.40. So total cost of air fares and transfer was about £102. Different destination to you - but even so, it looks to me using air to cover the bulk of the distance still has quite an edge, price-wise.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nick Zotov, should have used the Swiss Transfer ticket, it would have cost you even less (but not much)
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D G Orf, Yes, I am a bit more clued up on that now, though, as you say, there was not much in it this time. But I will bear it in mind in future - thanks for raising that.
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FAQ
and of course the 50p tree subsisdy 
