 Poster: A snowHead
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sorry for French thread title - don't know whether there's an English equivalent. I've been doing some googling following this helpful post from comprex on Megamum's skating thread.
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Edgeless snowplows are a beotch unless the snow is really sun-soft, because there is no real feedback of when you're doing it right.
Salomon, for one, now sell 3/4 length edged XC skis in beginner flexes. 3/4 edge skis are not new but these have edges at tip and tail instead of in the middle like other designs. These snowplow /really/ well with low boots, and you can still get decent kick + glide. |
I have tried "classic" ski nordique, on long narrow edgeless skis and little boots like slippers. Despite 2 weeks of lessons I found it very difficult. OK on the flat, or up slight hills, where I was getting the hang of the weight shift and gliding step reasonably well. But downhill, on gradients too steep for traces, where we had to snowplough, I found it extremely difficult. Really scary, especially when the snow was hard - far harder for me than first steps on a snowboard. If I had 2 weeks of lessons on a snowboard I reckon I'd be getting quite good!
I'm not interested in becoming a competition cross country skier or a master of technique. But our resort has a fantastic cross-country area, which is beautiful - 80 kms of tracks of all colours from green to black. It's great to get away from the lifts and crowds, and it's a super way of keeping fit.
So, I'd like to have another go - not with a view to super efficient gliding (which needs sporty equipment and good technique) but just pottering around getting fitter. I am familiar with "nordic walking", and I guess that "new school nordic skiing" is something similar.
I'd like more supportive boots, and I like the idea of the skis with some edges. I found these, whilst googling. Are they the sort of thing I should look at? http://www.salomon.com/be/#/nordic/skis/touring/snowscape-7-siam (that's where my thread title came from.
I think a less technically challenging, more fun, new school cross country skiing could be a more attractive proposition than the rather dour classic nordic skiing - which is losing its following, in Les Saisies anyway, at a steady rate. So does it exist, outside Salomon adverts?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't see the dimension (width). (and my french isn't sufficient to understand fully the rest of the descriptions) I'll take a look at the skis I have when I get home later...
The only one thing you want to be sure is the width of these skis are such it will still fit nicely inside the regular prepared tracks (with some room to spare).
But like in alpine, boots counts more. In fact, there's the worry that skinny soft boots might not be able to "drive" metal-edged skis. A lot of my mates are going for "skate boots" for classic use. And I'm beginning to share that view (and will likely to go that route for my next set).
Skis with metal edges are neccesarily heavier than similarly dimensioned non-metal-edged ones. Though that's not an issue as long as you don't have back-to-back comparison. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abc wrote: |
| I don't see the dimension (width). |
59/51/51/55, perfectly fine for in-track.
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abc, the french "Ski à écailles court et très stable pour les femmes souhaitant s’initier au ski nordique nouvelle école. À la fois assez large pour le hors-piste et assez fin pour rester dans les traces" means something on the lines with "skis with scales, short and very stable for women wanting to learn ski nordique nouvelle ecole. Wide enough for off-piste but [at the same time] narrow enough to stay in the tracks".
I was taken with the idea of "ski nordique nouvelle ecole" which sounds rather more fun than the vieille ecole method using those pesky pisky boots and looooooooooong very skinny skis. That's why I wondered whether it really existed, or was a figment of Salomon's imagination. I don't think there's an English equivalent - I googled it.
I didn't see any mention of metal edges in that advert, or the others, though.
I'm sure it's right that ex-Alpine skiers rely too much on their boots, but I do like your idea that skating boots might be the way to go. I really am not bothered about being fast, or technically skilled, or purist, but I'd enjoy getting around the nordic domain with a bit more confidence and stability.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, there is a sort-of-new school of mostly-in-track nordic that started around the mid-late '90s:
The skis are quite shorter than the old-school classic ones, the kick pocket isn't as extreme as on old-school designs, the kick area/zone has a refined shape (the skis are not simply straight or hourglass) and everything is lighter overall. Because the skis are shorter, twist-controlling them is easier with any boot. ~20, 30cm shorter compared to the old stuff is not unusual, depending on skier weight.
If it is a figment, it is more in the nature of a mass delusion, since such designs are also evident in the Atomic, Fischer and Rossi lineups.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I go for more supportive boots to start with - even for classic. But I'd go for pursuit boots as you get the ankle support, but still get a decent amount of forefoot flex for classic.
I'm tempted myself to get some track skis with metal edges (and a crown base). Here in scotland the trails aren't pisted as often as on the continent, they tend to get cut up badly and can often be hard and icy (with ruts frozen in) and i reckon some metal edges will give more control on the downhils.
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| Dave Horsley wrote: |
| I go for more supportive boots to start with - even for classic. But I'd go for pursuit boots as you get the ankle support, but still get a decent amount of forefoot flex for classic. |
Right on the boot choices, especially for in track use. My mates are finding skate boots works fine for back country use. For BC, there isn't as much chance for smooth striding in the classic "standard" since the tracks are typically not prepared. More of a shuffle than a stride, even when not breaking fresh track. So forward flex is less critical. Focus being on lateral ankle support.
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I'm tempted myself to get some track skis with metal edges (and a crown base). Here in scotland the trails aren't pisted as often as on the continent, they tend to get cut up badly and can often be hard and icy (with ruts frozen in) and i reckon some metal edges will give more control on the downhils. |
The condition you ski on sounds very similar with what I often ski. Lots of freeze/thaw cycle and in-frequent grooming means hard-to-icy surfaces, especially on anything that's not level. I do find my BC ski (full length metal edge) works out better overall on such conditions. I can really dig my edge in on the uphill (herringbone), which means I can actually climb as fast, if not faster, than people on non-metal-edged skis. Downhill control is far, far superior. No competition!
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are the full length metal edged skis narrow enough to go in prepared "classic" XC tracks? I had a look at the skis in the village last week - loads and loads, but none with metal edges that I could see.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes, mine is. (sorry, never got to look at what model it is, already put away)
I think the model is Salomon AR65, which is (roughly) 65mm at the tip/tail and a bit narrower in the middle.
It's definitely heavier when I picked it up, each step. So extra effort EVERY STEP. Though I grant you it's a much more rigorous workout!
And the long kick pattern (fish scale) REALLY slows things down on the flat. The lost in glide distance is quite noticable when I switch back and forth between that and my track skis (long, skinny, waxed). Though in less ideal snow surface, the big fish scale section sometimes end up HELPING with more effective "kick" so the trade-off is not qutie that one-sided.
And, when the snow condition turns hared and icy, I'm the only one who's skiing down stuff everybody else is walking (or falling)! 
[EDIT]
Also, if where you'll be skiing has lots of ups and downs, the "slower" skis might actually turn out to be a better climber with its bigger kick zone. At least for us less than Olympic caliber technically, that is.
That applies to both metal-edge or non-metal-edged skis.
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abc, I can't find any trace of those skis on google.fr If you remember anything else, please let me know. I don't mind being a big heavier/slower at times, given that my purpose is just to enjoy the surroundings and get some exercise - not cover any specific distance, or at any specific speed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, totally got the wrong manufacturer! It's Rossignol model BC 65! 
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