Why can't I ski 'floppy'?

A snowHead

OK, so here is fun question hopefully with a practical outcome.

I am doubtless more comfortable on skis these days. I am gaining more technique, and am prepared to have a go at lots of different slopes and conditions. Yet even on the simplest of slopes, something that I have no problems with skiing at all, say an easy green on good snow I still struggle to 'look' as though I know what I'm doing. When I watch video footage I don't flow and am literally still stiff as a board. If I concentrate on being 'floppy' it gets a bit better, but it shouldn't be necessary for me to concentrate on being 'floppy' and I am aware when I watch others on the mountain that I am in a minority. Short of a couple of stiff slugs every now and then from a hip flask (which I think does help) is there anything I can do to be naturally 'floppy', N.B. I know that music will be suggested, but I'm not keen on locking out the outside world in that way so other suggestions would be good. What makes you all 'floppy' relaxed skiers? Is it just 'time on the snow'?

A snowHead

Sorry mate - but yep.....I ve always found tuition to be worthwhile though?!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

try mucking about a little on the skis, a couple of bunny hops or jumps off little bumps, some dynamic skating on flat bits, a couple of skiing drills, one of my favs at the mo is to hold both ski poles (arms) out in front and drag both sticks constantly whilst doing short turns down the fallline, try on a gentle slope. Sometimes when feel a bit tense or unrelaxed I'll take a break, stop thinking about the skiing, then when a I ski again normally feels good again.

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Could I be trying to hard? I do so want to be a good skier.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Stance, outside ski dominance, movement and flow.

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Megamum, in January I skied with a wonderful instructor who

a) was keen on Pilates and often talked of the need to engage one's core when skiing and
b) asked us to note that - say on steep variable terrain - he might look very relaxed but, in fact, he was working very hard and getting tired, just like us.

So, I deduce that it's good technique which enables one to look good, not floppiness.

As for 'flowing' counting helps for me ie counting up to a turn and out of it again. It really helps to maintain a turning rhythm, whatever the terrain and counting is just as good as music. (I'm not keen on locking the world out either, or indeed on having music piped straight into my head at all.)

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

From experience - better skills... as you become more skilled your discomfort in various situations decreases and you will become more relaxed when you ski more often. Eventually most of the time.

If I find I've stiffened up a little I quickly run through a couple of turns each of a few warm up drills and I'm relaxed again

After all it is free

When you think of 'turning' do you imagine the turn to be only the very point at which you change directions? I see people who ski like you describe and it looks as if they are forgetting to do anything prior to and after the turn. Unless you are traversing or schussing you should always be in a turn.

Have you ever watched a downhill skier imagining the turns with eyes shut, bobbing up and down with hands out front..... give it a try for short and long turns, wide and narrow. Bob down when you are carving a turn and angle hands(ski angle) depending on the turn speed and width.

W*E*E*D.

East to come across in Switzerland too.

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Megamum, this is a problem at all levels of skiing - one of the reasons BASI started talking about "flow" was that they were failing people at ISTD level who were doing everything else well - it just didn't all flow together, look relaxed.

On my L2 Coach course there was a guy who was technically a very good skier, but he looked a bit robotic when he skiied. Personally I put this down to too much coaching - he admitted himself he hadn't had a ski holiday in years, all he'd done were perfromance courses.

So yes, I'd say trying too hard is a very likely cause. Just go out and have fun and don't worry about what you look like. If you really want to "work" at being more relaxed then try messing about a bit - imitate other skiers on the piste, good and bad, imagine how certain animals would look if they ski etc. Just have fun!

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Megamum, we had a lesson back in December with one of the BASS instructors in Les Gets (lesson was in Avoriaz), can't remember his name for now - but two things he said that I still remember: have a song that you sing to yourself helps you relax and get a good rhythm was one and the other which I suddenly think about if I have been a bit challenged was "don't kill the budgerigars". So imagine that in your hands where you are holding your poles, think that you are carefully carrying two budgerigars - and see if they are still alive at the end of your run - not squashed because you have been tense.

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Megamum, try to extend the range of movement you have, up and down as well as side to side (but not twisty side to side). Most people think they are making large movements when they ski but in reality are using a very small range, with the consequence of looking very stiff or static. Try making some turns as low as you can (without dropping your centre of gravity behind your feet), then make some turns standing as tall as you can, then try to use that range within the same turn by standing as tall as you can when you start the turn followed by sinking down as low as you can at the end of the turn. Don't make any of these movements quickly, think of honey running down the side of a goat Wink

Hurtle, similar comments about Pilates and the 'core' in my lesson yesterday. And my legs hurt like hell this morning.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

ccl,

I always try to find ways to connect with my clients; as Megamum is our resident bee-keeper and goat-herder I thought I'd plant a mental image which will stay with her when she skis. I fully accept that it might not be a helpful image though, for which I offer my humble apologies Smile

A snowHead

Megamum, and link your turns. Never traverse unless you're heading for good snow off-piste or doing drills with an instructor Smile

A snowHead

rob@rar,

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Megamum, IMHO, some of the "flow" comes literally from flowing from one dynamic action to another. I would hope that when I ski, (except in dire emergency reaction) that each movement is intimately connected to and follows from the last. It's part of the "zen" joy of the whole thing. That means I'm not (ever, hopefully) thinking too consciously about my next moves as I'm already thinking a few moves ahead.

Which only comes with practice...(and a bit of thinking about thinking ahead).

Maybe some easy, simple gates type exercises to get you concentrating in something else would help start the process?

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Megamum, take some lessons on the bumps. This forces you to flex and stretch and get you used to a huge range of movement, so that the lumps on the piste seem as nothing. Relaxation is the key - it will probably suddenly click Smile

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Megamum, I know exactly what you mean. It is time spent on skis that gives you the 'friendship' with your skis. It's also about relaxing. I imagine if you ride a horse, you feel totally in tune. What we are looking for is the same thing that 'late starting' horse riders look for, and takes time to achieve.

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I don't think that 'floppy' should be the objective.

Settle down and watch of a Gene Kelly film such as 'An American in Paris' and see how little body movement - and especially head movement - he has. All the action is happening down below but his upper body remains taught and motionless - like a flywheel. This is all about core body strength (which is where Pilates is useful). If they'd have let him, I sure he'd have made a great skier.

Also, watch one of my favourite YouTube clips:

http://youtube.com/v/qjjZoU_05P8

In particular watch the helmet-cam and the pole-cam shots and notice that the legs are making all the movement whilst the body remains taught and still. (Yer, I know it's telemark but the same applies)

One thing to try and visualize is hot coals under your feet. Imagine that, every time you hit a bump, the coals press into your feet and burn. Keep the image while, instead, you try and pick up your feet all the time so that they don't burn. This may help your delicateness on the snow and may promote a more reactive posture.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Megamum, when I realise I'm too tense I usually try distraction to help relax more.

In other words, I try to focus on just one thing (not necessarily where I think the problem is) and ignore everything else that I'm doing. For example, if I think my legs are too stiff (not enough extension/retraction), I might try focussing on seeing how high I can lift my outside ski little toe on each turn. Or if my weight is too far back, I might focus on keeping my hands out in front and keeping my torso facing down the fall-line.

It only works if you can ski well enough to let your body use muscle memory to let everything click back into place and it doesn't work for all faults. But it works for me, for many things. Very Happy

I wouldn't rule out music, you can always just put one ear of the earphones in so you can still hear what's going on around you.

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I just thought of an old 'exercise' that may be useful (and fun) for you.

When you are skiing easy terrain with the minimums and or BMF skier throw snowballs to each other - play catch! If you would prefer not to get snowy gloves take a small bean bag. (Our ski school had frog bean bags for this purpose). While you are throwing and catching your movements tend to become more natural as you are focused on the catching/throwing. IMPORTANT - do not stop skiing to catch/throw.

I'm pretty sure the type of object is not important - although a ball is maybe a little easy(too predictable in flight) and may also run off down hill if you miss.

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Ski floppy? Is your bra too tight?

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Megamum, lots of good suggestions up there. One thing I do, if a bit tense/cold, is to use drag lift rides to loosen up. I jump a bit (lift tips first, then tails, then tips - repeat until knackered, which isn't long in my case). I also try to bend right down as if picking up something off the ground (though I find it hard to actually get right down - so I obviously need to practice). Also skating up in time to the music (yes, actually, I do think music helps and as somebody said you can always turn the damn thing off......). Otherwise, more lessons, yes. more time on the snow, yes. Don't be persuaded by others to try slopes you find tension-inducing. And stop worrying what you look like (particularly important if you're going to do all that hopping about on a drag lift).

Music is very good for both relaxation and keeping a rhythm going.

I hate using headphones too, so that's why I use a small portable speaker in my top pocket. So you get both your music and the outside world!

PS. I turn off the music when in queues, shared gondolas, etc.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Megamum,Just let yourself go. To many people think about it and there is no flow or fluidity to their skiing.

Just ski and enjoy with a big smile on your face and it will all come together

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

on a serious note, stop worrying about it, stop posting technical questions that get into the minute detail and get out and ski, if your not worrying about having exactly the right amount of pressure on your little toe because some geek on an internet forum told you it was important, you'll find you naturally relax and enjoy it, and the 'flow' will come....

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kitenski, indeed. Something I've come to realise training this year is that there's no kung fu moment of zen either - it's not like you get your ISTD and suddenly refrozen death cookies on icy rutted groomers suddenly ski like powder. The better skiier you are, the more input you'll feel from the snow and be able to respond to - this will allow you to look smooth to people watching, but it almost definitely won't feel it. Not saying that the issues people have at an intermediate level don't go away - but they do get replaced.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Often when a drill is suggested, there is also a focus which may differ for various members of a group. ie, more movement, less movement, differing range of movement, focus of balance and so on.

If trying harder and harder to overcome something produces little change despite great effort, maybe it's time to shift a focus.

Try the same drill and shift your focus to being as chilled as possible throughout the drill.

Same when you're not in drills. Don't focus on trying to ski like a god all the time. Maybe a run focussed on one desired outcome. The next, keep the same desired outcome there with a shift in focus to skiing it as relaxed and chilled as possible.

Get creative, jump around a bit; pop a few small bumps; scream and shout; sing even (but without the aid of anything apres ski related) - then try the same focussed purely on your desired outcome. See what you enjoy the most.

Hope this helps.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Thanks for all the tips folks, it sounds like I need more fun with it and less worrying. I do like the idea of throwing something about and catching it. I do think I am concentrating on it too much. I find when I am watching where the kids are and concentrating on what they doing that I seem more able to ski without thinking about it. When I skied this year the things I had much more fun doing were daft things, like popping down the dip and up onto the top ridge at the end of the snow park, then negotiating the 50 yards of off piste bumps in soft snow to get to the bar. Also, when I played in the deep off piste for a hundred yards or so in Switzerland and when we skied in the foot of off piste powder during the night skiing. The skiing probably left a lot to be desired, but all those bought on smiles and giggles and I felt relaxed. Now I need to translate the same to on-piste.

After all it is free

T Bar,

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Megamum, when I started skiing I had lots of lessons from different people in different resorts. I didn't know good from bad but I "kept" something from each one. In the end, though, my friends threatened not to ski with me if I had any more! Shocked

I'd stand at the top of a slope muttering, "look ahead, not at your feet, shoulders level, don't turn your shoulders, hands in front, hands high, bend your knees, thighs high, bend your ankles, roll your ankles, don't drop your hip, push with your knee, angulate your body etc, etc." I was so screwed up about everything I could hardly move Laughing

. In the end I gave up lessons for a few holidays and just had fun. Remember there's noone at the bottom of the slope holding up boards with points for style! So long as you, and everyone else, is safe that's all that matters. Eventually you'll go back to the odd lesson but it will be on something specific that you feel you need help with rather than a cascade of stuff that overwhelms you.

Help!!

Why can't I ski 'floppy'?

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