 Poster: A snowHead
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Lots of threads going on about techniques and coaching have got me thinking.
I'm probably an instructor's worst nightmare. I started skiing at school age and had lessons on a dry slope in the UK, then around five weeks' worth on school trips between 1978 and 1983. Since then I have had about 10 week-long ski holidays and did a full season working for a TO but haven't had any lessons (skiing that is, had a week's worth of snowboarding lessons when I did my season.
Obviously skis have changed quite a bit in this time and other than the fact I now have an old and painful body, my technique hasn't. I'm not troubled by any of this, I only ski one week per year and it's primarily a holiday for me. I can get down anything I choose to with success and possibly a modicum of old-school style (tend to shy away from extremely steep and have no desires for off-piste). I don't push myself at all, I know my limits and I really don't ever want to fall.
However, having said all that, I've been doing the same thing for so long, there are probably all sorts of bad habits and general omissions to my ski repertoire.
What would others do in my position? Is a day of fridge coaching a good idea? Or maybe a half day private lesson on my next ski holiday? I've no idea of the cost of these things so that might be prohibitive, nor do I know what I would gain, I'm just curious that I might gain something. I certainly don't want to spend my ski holiday in ski school having daily lessons. I'm happy cruising about doing my own thing. But there might be more to my ski life than this?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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queen bodecia,
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Is a day of fridge coaching a good idea? Or maybe a half day private lesson on my next ski holiday?
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Yes, repeat as many times as you can afford. As said on the carving thread, I think my skiing has been improved by some decent tuition, and I have about the same number of weeks of bad/outdated habits under my belt as you do, if not more. Skiing better is SO much more enjoyable and less exhausting.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hurtle, hence my humour on the other thread. Although I consider myself a competent recreational skier, there's so much stuff on here that goes so far over my head, I do wonder if I'm missing something. But I also wonder if it matters.
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From your description of yourself as a once a year skier, who is capable of doing what they want, and no desire to change much, I don't think you will benefit from any lessons or coaching.
Personally, if I went out with your attitude, I probably wouldn't ski. And that is not to denegrate your attitude. There are many hundreds like you. And why not, if that is what you enjoy doing. I just view it as a sport and like to challenge myself.
If you were looking to push yourself, get some excitement back into your skiing, and take the risk of falling in the process, then I would highly recommend at least a one hour private lesson. If you can try and get a recommendation for an instructor that would be good. It should be a very quick, plain speaking, in your face assessment of your main problems and how to improve them. A couple of private lessons are not expensive in the grand scheme of things. About 50 Euros for one hour.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Roughly what does a day of fridge coaching cost versus a private lesson in resort? Which would benefit me most?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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queen bodecia, I don't think anyone can give you the answer.
I have quite a strong urge to do everything to the best of whatever latent ability I may possess, so coaching is important to me, in skiing and other fields.
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Layne, thanks for that. I don't want to challenge myself and I certainly don't want to risk falling. I do enjoy my skiing and it is plenty exciting enough for me. But the common view on here is that there is always scope for improvement.
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laundryman, you might be right. I might be asking an impossible question. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Layne, thanks for that. I don't want to challenge myself and I certainly don't want to risk falling. I do enjoy my skiing and it is plenty exciting enough for me. But the common view on here is that there is always scope for improvement. |
If you're happy with what you're doing then there is no need to become the perfect skier. But taking lessons might help you improve to a position where more stuff is in your comfort zone. Ski obsessives on snowheads are not necessarily representative of the "average" 1 week a year holiday skier so if you identify more closely with the latter...
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queen bodecia,
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But the common view on here is that there is always scope for improvement.
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I play badminton once a week. I enjoy playing but it's not my main focus in life. I have no desire to improve. I just enjoy playing. It sounds like you are the same with skiing. It would be pointless getting some coaching or intuition as I do want to work hard at it or improve my game. There is room for improvement but I have no wish to attain it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think this thread shows that there are two basic schools of thought and that never the twain shall meet. One is
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a strong urge to do everything to the best of whatever latent ability I may possess
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and the other is
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There is room for improvement but I have no wish to attain it.
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So, yes, it's impossible to answer the question objectively.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm not competitive, so it's not about the former for me. But I can see the school of thought that says my enjoyment of my recreational level skiing might increase with a bit more tuition. To me the big thing is that skis and my personal mobility have both changed significantly since I had my ski tuition. I reached my plateau a long time ago, but since my health worsened my plateau became a fair bit lower. I know I'm never going to get back to the heady heights of my early 20s fitness but I proved to myself this season that by managing my symptoms better and doing regular mild exercise, I can still ski all day and have a good time doing it. Maybe there is better left in me yet.
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queen bodecia, I'm not competitive either, it's just a question of performing to the best of my abilities. And, by the sound of it, you're also close to agreeing that that is worthwhile.
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You know it makes sense.
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To be honest for the sake of 50 Euros you may aswell do it. There are plenty worse things to blow your money on in a ski resort. Best of luck if you do.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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queen bodecia, Maybe have a think first about how you learn things in other areas of your life.
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Poster: A snowHead
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queen bodecia, you've also go to think who you normally ski with. If you end up skiing the off piste, or doing the kickers in the snowpark, but all your friends don't want to go there, then what's the point? Surely one is happiest doing things that their friends and family are doing!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bum, excellent point. But it's also nice to ski with new people and not be too timid, through lack of basic ability, to do so.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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queen bodecia,
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| Maybe there is better left in me yet. |
Almost certainly  The great thing about skiing is it's benefit to general fitness - both for mind and body.
Improving technically could open up new area's of the sport to you, or at worst mean that you have a bigger margin for error when doing what you enjoy now.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I had lessons this year for the first time since 1999, since when a lot of bad habits had crept in. Having recently(ish) hit 40, I had a strange desire to try and learn how to ski gentle off-piste and moguls with a modicum of style. The lessons were a revelation - I learnt more than I thought possible in 5 half days and had a great time. Curiously, I wasn't doing wrong what I thought I was doing wrong, so for several years, I'd been trying to correct a fault I didn't have and had introduced a new one that I didn't previously have!
On the last day, I felt like I was turning when I pleased in the loose snow (mid-boot height), rather than turning only when the chance presented itself. I've never had that feeling before in loose snow, and it was great. I might have miraculously got there without the lessons, but I somehow doubt it.
Even the Good Lady had to admit that I was no longer an embarrassment to be with whilst skiing, which topped everything.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks for all the comments folks. It's not about learning anything new as such, I have no compulsions for off-piste or park, the piste is definitely where I'm staying. I think Hurtle's comments come closest to how I'm feeling. Two years ago I was doubtful I'd even be able to ski again, but the fact that I can, and that this year I managed a whole lot better than last year, has given me some impetus. Not necessarily to ski 'better' and especially not faster, but to improve my existing abilities and fitness. I've proved a fair bit to myself in the past year, maybe I can prove a bit more.
Having said this, is a day in a fridge (e.g. Hemel with Rob?) going to be better for me than a couple of hours with A.N.Other instructor on holiday next season? Can't imagine I'd be able to afford both.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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What you could well find is that a lesson will get you skiing more efficiently, so it's less tiring and demanding on your body. Would probably be worth it, as I'm sure that would boost your enjoyment.
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queen bodecia, I should add that the "off-piste" techniques I learnt naturally led to me skiing much better and more relaxed in rough on-piste conditions. I didn't need to have my boots done up so tightly to feel "safe" and therefore my feet hurt less at the end of the day.
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queen bodecia,
go and book a moguls lesson 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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queen bodecia,
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Having said this, is a day in a fridge (e.g. Hemel with Rob?) going to be better for me than a couple of hours with A.N.Other instructor on holiday next season? Can't imagine I'd be able to afford both
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I might be maligning rob and the other fridge instructors but I would have thought that if you do not intend to keep practising in the fridge a one off lesson there is likely to be of less use than a lesson on holiday when you will be able to practice a wee bit. If you have been skiing for a long time you may have some habits to unlearn and working on them may be important.
I would have thought that a couple of one hour lessons with practice in between and going back to correct what you are doing wrong is likely to work best.
I am a similarly experienced but technically indifferent skier who has been skiing for a while and find a one off lesson not much use unless you have the opportunity to do a fair bit of practise.
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queen bodecia, have you thought about doing a course as a holiday? Could your friends be persuaded to join you on one? Various sHs, me included, have hugely enjoyed doing a week with Inspired to Ski. I think their whole package at the Mark Warner chalet hotel (Le Dahu) in Courchevel 1850 represents excellent value - particularly since there are no single room supplements there. See here. I've been twice in January and the tuition was superb both times. Really full-on for 5 half days and the rest of the time you ski with your friends (who may be in a different class). It's very convivial and, although the Dahu is getting a bit tired, I find the accommodation and cuisine perfectly adequate.
I agree with T Bar that a single lesson with no opportunity to practise will be of limited value.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hurtle, thanks for the info. They look like excellent courses and I'll certainly pass on that web address to my ski buddies. Probably out of my league financially and I'd be worried that such intensive levels of tuition might be too much for me physically, but it's worth further investigation.
I can see the view that a single lesson might be worthless without practice opportunities. I did manage 6 or 7 fridge trips (plus a trip to Another World in Halifax) over the course of the last year and would like to be in a position to do a fridge trip every month between now and next March when I take my next ski holiday but I daresay this would be insufficient practice. I only really want to do it as part of my fitness regime and to keep my ski legs working.
I think the best bet given the limited budget is to consider a private lesson early on during my next ski holiday, which is likely to be Kitzbuhel next March. I'll do some further research.
Again, thanks for all the input everybody. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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One other point: it is snowHead recommendation which has enabled me to progress with good instructors. Until I encountered snowHeads, I threw quite a bit of money away on useless lessons with ESF instructors and others.
Good luck, whatever you decide! |
Which is entirely why I'm asking here!
None of this would have even entered my head prior to becoming a regular visitor here.
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You know it makes sense.
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queen bodecia, a one-off lesson could well be of little value if the client turned up wanting a couple of hours input from an instructor and expected to go away a broadly transformed skier without reflecting on what they learned and practising it while free skiing. Those are the least satisfactory lessons to teach, and can give poor value for money as it's likely little will change in the clients skiing. However, not all one-off lessons are like this. There might be value if you haven't had a lesson for a long time and you wanted an instructor with a good eye to provide feedback on what changes you might want to make in the long term, and suggest some ways in which you could make those changes. You might also want to address one specific problem so a focused session of a couple of hours followed by lots of practise might help you to make a big change in your skiing. You might want a lesson to help overcome a barrier to being confident in certain snow or terrain. The main thing is to know what you are looking for from a lesson and discuss that with the instructor.
If you are thinking about committing one day a month between now and next winter I think there's a strong liklihood that you will see lots of changes in your skiing as well as developing a broader understanding of how skiing works. skimottaret and I have taught a number of people at Hemel since last July, typically a day every month or two, and have seen significant changes in their skiing (and have been pleased when they came back from their ski holidays this winter reporting more fun and more control in tougher snow and steeper terrain ).
Hurtle I heard you. Tsk.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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As a newbie here I find this thread very interesting. I'm late 50s, have skied over a 34 year period sometimes one week, sometimes two, sometimes zero including introducing my wife and two boys to skiing. This includes Scotland, France, Spain, Andorra, Italy and Austria. Plus a lot of dry slope at Gloucester or Churchill (near Bristol) where I like to think I introduced several teenage students to skiing (I'm a college lecturer and used to take student groups skiing).
However, I've had very few lessons myself (none for the first ten years, "taught" myself). But, I realise, you can't teach yourself properly and I now wonder if, at my advanced age, I would benefit that much from expert tuition. I must have so many bad habits, it would be hard for someone to undo them surely. I can ski easy blacks under good conditions, but a heavily mogulled one would defeat me. I sometimes struggle with soft snow/crud. So, can I be saved? I've previously thought that I'll "never get any better now" but am I wrong? Opinions most welcome. Regards.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, thanks for your advice and you've hit the nail right on the head in that I need to decide what I want. Of course I could carry on indefinitely doing what I am doing without any real problems.
I very much know what I'm good and bad at and I tend to avoid the things I'm bad at because I am bad at them. I don't personally feel there is any need to transform my skiing. It's not really broken and in need of fixing (you might disagree there, lol!). But maybe there are things I could do better and possibly in the longer term it might be a goal to be less bad at the things that I am bad at so that I don't feel the need to actively avoid them.
With that in mind I like the idea of Hurtle's drills. Just pointers as to things I should be thinking about. The more I think about them, the more I might find myself doing them. That sort of thing, nothing too hectic.
I'm keen on the idea of a monthly fridge session. Not lessons as such, but a fridge is a good place to practice things. The same generally unthreatening terrain over and over so less likely to get distracted from concentrating on what I'm doing. It's more of a fitness thing for me too. People say fridges are boring but I swim 40 lengths every week and that is enormously boring. I just do it for fitness. Skiing in a fridge beats that hands down.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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billb, sounds like this thread is going to help you out a bit too. Welcome!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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queen bodecia, Thanks, I don't mean to hijack your thread btw
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| People say fridges are boring but I swim 40 lengths every week and that is enormously boring. |
None of my clients say fridges are boring  Swimming lengths on the other hand...
billb, nobody here is under 35 and cool.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, I agree. Would one of your 'Skills Clinics' be a good starting point? Pretty sure I can claim 'level 6' maybe even 'level 7'.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| rob@rar, I agree. Would one of your 'Skills Clinics' be a good starting point? Pretty sure I can claim 'level 6' maybe even 'level 7'. |
Yes, I think they would be very suitable.
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FAQ
) and that should be useful when I get round to them every time I ski, whether here or in the mountains. 
An instructor could perhaps do something similar for you - assess you and give you a bit of programme, rather like a personal trainer.
I often get the impression all you guys are 35 and very cool. So I'm not too old a) to ski b) have lessons and c) to post here. 