 Poster: A snowHead
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My Aunt & Uncle have booked to go to ?Winter Park? (somewhere in Colorado anyway) on Saturday for a week with Crystal. They paid the extra supplement (about £70) for the BA Heathrow-Denver direct flight.
Received the tickets about 3-4 weeks ago & once they'd been corrected (My Aunt was down as Mr L XXXXXXXXX) all was sorted. Or so they thought...............
My Uncle rang BA on Monday for some reason (book seats, lounge or similar) & was told he was definately not booked on the flight. Crystal looked into it for him & rang back yesterday afternoon to say "oops sorry!" They had issued the tickets but not quite managed to get around to booking the seats on the plane!! Oh dear. That direct flight is now full & the only alternative they can offer him is a flight via a lengthy stopover in Chicago.
They are now considering asking for a full refund & booking something else instead.
The worst bit is; if he hadn't rung BA to book the seats, they would have turned up at Heathrow on Saturday morning expecting to get on that flight!!
The moral of this story - If you're flying scheduled with a tour operator, make sure they've actually booked the flight. Or even better - scrub the TO & do it yourself!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I imagine that BA and/or the tour operator would have honoured the tickets by bidding other passengers off the plane, as they conventionally do with overbooked planes, so your Aunt and Uncle would have flown.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith, BA would have had no obligation to do anything if I read Ski Bunny's, thread correctly she is saying that Crystal had taken the money for booking the seats but had not done so with BA, which is why BA new nothing about them. Since I'm sure there would have been no tour op rep at Heathrow on Saturday am waiting it would have meant trying to get hold of the tour op down a phone on a Saturday morning, putting it another way they would have been stuffed, whatever way you read it bad news 
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Ski Bunny, Suggest getting them to phone Crystal immediately and insist that they are booked on that flight as contracted. It is not that there are 'NO" seats selling rather that the cheap TO selling classes are not .. loads of seats Premium Economy and Club, so BA will do it if requested hard enough, will just cost Crystal more bucks.
As above BA have no obligations as no booking .. but Crystal do. Then again they may prefer just to have a full refund ( Plus damages)...
P.S. Unusual these days to have 'paper' tickets written out ... so POSSIBLY reservation still made in name of Mr L Xxxxxxx or whatever with pnr not updated... ( I cann't check that)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It seems bizarre that a tour operator can write out a worthless ticket. Doesn't the ticket have to carry some form of validation obtained from the airline's central computer?
This doesn't sound like a foolproof process!
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David Goldsmith, These days it is very , very unusual for major airlines. It is however possible , and is particularly prevalent amongst TOs. All ticket stock (125 in BA's case) is effectively similar to a Blank Cheque... but you are correct 99.99% of major airline booking/ticketing is linked to centralised res systems ... can not say in Ski Bunny's case what happened, but there are a number of ummmhh 'methods' of making reservations and 'name changing' which are not really 'approved', with the aim of getting cheapest seats ... not that a company like Crystal would do that of course.
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Ski Bunny, I'm with Newbie50 on this one. It's not that your Aunt/Uncle have an issue with BA - it's that Crystal entered into a legal promise to provide your Aunt/Uncle with direct BA flights to Denver on the appointed day. Short of a clause in the pre- or booking terms that says otherwise, your Aunt/Uncle should insist that Crystal does what it contractually promised to do. At the very least Crystal can make arrangements (and absorb the cost) of putting your Aunt/Uncle onto an alternative carrier for a similar route on the same day.
Make it Crystal's problem to sort out.
BTW, Crystal's a big TO, they have the financial capability to absorb the costs of their occassional mistakes, so there's no need to think that Crystal will suffer unduely.
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I had an even more bizzare experience with BA a couple of years ago. I booked tickets for the three of us to Orlando, outbound flight worked out to plan we even got the seat numbers I had preallocated. However when we came to check in for the return flight they denied any knowledge of out booking on the 'system' - I had the tickets and a letter from them that even confirmed the seat numbers and that return flight confirmation was not required.
The check in agent proceded to inform us that the flight was full and we would not get on!! My Mr. Angry Head appeared and I sent him off to get his supervisor who remarkably managed to get us seats - I did try the bump us up then ploy - but to no avail.
So you are not even safe with a direct booking.
CP
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 9-03-05 16:48; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's never happened to me with a flight, but I always get an anxiety attack when the clerk at the airline / hotel / car hire place taps in your name, because it's invariably followed by a look of complete mystification.
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CP, that IS weird. I've never had that happen myself, but good to see you got BA to sort it. It's entirely normal that you would get put into cattleclass if that's the class you booked and there were seats left in that class. The only time I've seen the bump-up work is when traveling well-dressed and solo on a busy flight and check-in staff are feeling particularly kind, or when there aren't any cattleclass seats left and the airline's deliberately overbooked that class on that flight.
laundryman if I don't get the mystified look, I get one of disbelief (my surname's the most common english one going - check-in staff always think I'm off on a dirty weekend. I should stop going off on dirty weekends, I guess...)
Ski Bunny, let us know how your Aunt & Uncle get on!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Isn't there some contractual issue between Crystal and Snow Bunny's relatives? I'd be pressing Crystal every which way to see that I was on that flight, regardless of cost to them. They made the offer, took the money, and formed a contract. I very much doubt that their terms would allow them to take money from passengers for seats that may or may not be available.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Manda, I tried the 'bump up' request as we had been told that cattle class was full - some economy with the truth as it turned out!!
I fly 3/4 times a year to the USA and have only ever been upgraded once - it was on a UA flight to Washington I think and cattle class was full. The service is UA's business class was cr@p, mainly becuase it was full of bumped up punters I guess. However it was nice to have the extra personal space.
CP
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CP, Manda, It can happen on the 'handover' from the Reservation (booking) to the Departure Control Systems (check-in), ( but these are very uncommon), there were also a couple of glitches ( 2001 add 2003 ??), following major changes to the BA systems , but they were well communicated and this sounds like one of the former.
It happpened to me (during one of the major system changes) , and I was 'ticketless'. If it ever happens to you , insist the check-in agent looks at the reservation system, which they should do automatically anyway.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks for all the advice guys.
Just had an update from Uncle Mike & they offered him an upgrade on the alternative flights (via Chicago) & £300 compensation. He said he'd "consider it" & while he was doing so they rang back & said that BA had "released" more availability on the original direct LHR - Denver flight?? Would BA do this? Anyway, he's accepted 2 x business class seats on this flight & rung BA to check that they are definately on the flight!
You don't really expect this kind of palaver when you book through a TO - especially one as big as Crystal.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| hyweljenkins wrote: |
| I very much doubt that their terms would allow them to take money from passengers for seats that may or may not be available. |
You're probably right (I hope that you are), although of course that's exactly what airlines do every day of the week.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ski Bunny, Yes airlines do 'release' more seats .Several possible reasons:
1) They've reviewed the overboooking profile (all flights are oversold if they can ) ... and flexible bookings don't always turn up.
2) Crystal or any agent begged them too !
3) TOs do block bookings and 'hand back' seats ( but never this close to departure date )
4)Terminology often used by TOs / Agents for airline releasing flights in specific selling classes ( the way some airlines manage prices)
Don't believe it happened in this case as flight always 'on sale' although possibly 4) above ( and yes TOS do get special prices for Business Class too so don't feel sorry for them !!) but immaterial as thankfully your relatives are sorted, and that is much more important.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Ski Bunny wrote: |
| You don't really expect this kind of palaver when you book through a TO - especially one as big as Crystal. |
You're obviously an optimistic soul, in that case. I regard TOs and airlines as the most incompetent and dishonest people with whom I deal.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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BA business class to Denver will be fantastic, nice flat seats/beds, champage, wine, choice of food, enjoy it, as the return back in economy will be oh so different!
regards,
Greg
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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richmond, I'm currently remortgaging my house, so am dealing with solicitors & building societies. They make TOs & airlines look like your best friend!
Newbie50, Thanks for the advice. My guess is that the business class seats were always available, just Crystal weren't prepared to pay for them unless they really had to. But you're right - we're not really bothered how Crystal organised those seats, just that they have organised them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ski Bunny, Newbie50, Oi! Watchityerbuggers! 
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Newbie50, no. That may be libellous! I shall consult my lawyers; damn, I can't afford to. Actually, I have to say that my dealings with solicitors have been uniformly satisfactory. I can't say the same for used car salesmen (although they haven't been too bad) or estate agents. TOs (mainly for repeated incompetence) and airlines (for selling something to me and then selling it to someone else - not even an estate agent has tried that one on me) take the biccie, though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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richmond, Aarrgggh , I assume you mean the dreaded 'overbooking' word. I could write a long and detailed explanation and defense of why it is done by the major airlines and why Travel Agents and consumers are responsible, but I wonn't as I basically agree with you !
I also believe that when this is done by a certain Low Cost airline who do not have to cope with 'flexible', 'cross border' or 'Back-to-Back' ticketing done by TOs and TAS then it is bordering on the criminal. (They can sue me if they can agree which one I am talking about!)
I would think that it is a short time now before it is banned, as frankly the EC code/penalties are absolutely no deterrent ....
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Overbooking is totally unacceptable (no matter who or why). If you pay for a service you have a right to expect to receive it! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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easiski, I'm not so sure. "No shows" can be a very large percentage for a flight. The airlines ought to have enough stats that they can calculate a safe margin and not have things go pear shaped too often. The alternative is higher ticket prices and shed loads more CO2 emissions.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've had quite a few friends who've ended up with very good deals with overbooking. If too many people turn up for the flight, the airline "bids" people off the plane until they have enough seats. One set of friends, flying from Heathrow to New York got a deal which included a stay overnight in a five star airport hotel, free upgrades to business class there and back, leaving the next day, and a free return economy class flight to any of the airlines european destinations. They had a great time.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| easiski, I'm not so sure. "No shows" can be a very large percentage for a flight |
When I used to work for BA ( well BOAC actually!! ) we were told that 'no shows' were calculated at 10% when we were booking staff travel flights. I guess this % could have changed since then, anybody have an idea what the no show rate expectations are these days on scheduled flights?
CP ( just realised how old I am - scary or what!! )
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You know it makes sense.
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CP, a relative works for BA, it's still about 10% he says.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you want a "bump" then here's where it's just about guaranteed (offered to us three consecutive years). Book to fly to Boston on the Friday before February halfterm with Virgin. They always overbook and the majority of the seats in "zoo" are taken by school parties which they obviously can't split. The check-in is chaos. We've been offered a night in a 5-star hotel, all meals included, a next-day flight with chauffeur driven transfer to our resort (3 hours north of Boston) and free return trip to any Virgin destination. My sister and her friend accepted the bump twice- we didn't as I couldn't miss one whole day of my 6 days skiing (what price addiction?). However if you don't take the bump the flight is a nightmare packed with over-excited teenagers!!!
Anyway, if anyone wants to get their next year's ski travel free that's the way to do it. Grateful snowheads may send me champagne and money orders 
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Poster: A snowHead
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sounds like a nice plan Sue, but then you ski east coast and miss out on the west coast powder 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gregh, but it's only 6.5 hours on the plane!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sue S, gregh, The plan should work for most resorts in USA if you pick the right Saturday i.e. the one on Presidents Day weekend (3rd Monday in February), particularly when this coincides with our half term holidays. Be aware that BA are not as generous as the other airlines re compensation.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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CP, Helen Beaumont, No show "rates' vary by route, date, time of day and class of travel. Being 'very simplistic and generalising too much European 'leisure detinations' are less than 5%, while a longhaul business destination as much as 15% (planned).
bbski, Funny how people seem to focus on airlines. In reality 'no beds available' happens rather too frequently in the lodging industry too - invariably due to antiquated PMS and local mangemnt vagaries.
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FAQ
Guess it must run in the blood then 
so they tend to automatically think the customer is an idiot as they normally are!!
