 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Folks,
I've recently bought some Scarpa Denali TT ski touring boots and now one of my feet is very sore. As far as I can understand there's pressure on the fifth metatarsal (or around that area) which if worn for a more than day results in a red/swollen area long the outside of my right foot. After the first outing I had to sleep with bubble wrap on my foot as the pain was too bad to lie on it!
The boots felt fine in the shop and sitting around the house it was only when I tried skiing on them that the problem arose. I stupidly wore an extra pair of socks so possibly exacerbated the problem to begin with as I normally just wear one pair. Initially both feet hurt but I've had the outers stretched which seems to have stopped the left one from crippling me. The right one is still niggling though, it's not as bad as before the stretching but it's still unpleasant enough that I'm not enjoying skiing in them.
When I stand up in the boots my left foot feels properly supported by the footbeds (superfeet green) however the right foot doesn't. The left feels like the arch and most of the foot is in contact with the footbed whereas the right foot doesn't seem to be in contact with the footbed properly. It feels like there should be enough space to get my foot comfy but that the foot is somehow rolling into the side of the boot thus crippling me. I know touring boots need to be a bit loser than downhill boots as you need to be able to move your foot a wee bit when skining/walking etc.
I've tried every kind of socks possible, thick, thin etc but not joy. I've never had any issues with any other footwear (mountaineering boots, climbing shoes, regular ski boots) so I don't think my feet are *that* unusual. I do have a small bunion on my right foot so perhaps that makes it a different shape.
Any suggestions that don't involve taking a hacksaw to my foot or indeed the boot would be much appreciated. Is it worth asking the shop to stretch the outer a bit more? do I try getting custom footbeds made? is there anything else I can try? I just want to be able to go touring/skiing in those boots without being in pain.
I'm based in Edinburgh so getting to the places I've seen referred to on SnowHeads down south won't really be an option for me.
Cheers,
Fiona
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Definately worth trying to stretch them more. A lot of the time I have found fitters dont stretch enough first time as they dont want to stretch more than they have to. Also the Pebax plastic of the touring boots doesnt stretch as easily as regular PU alpine boots. Blues in Edinburgh are normally pretty good at boot work.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks Snowrider.
I got them from Blues and it seems (visually) that they managed to stretch the left one more than the right so hopefully another stretch might fix that aspect.
Not sure what to do re. my foot not sitting properly on the foot bed though.
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Fiona, first thing is to see if there is space in the shell for the foot.... ie is the shell causing the problem or is it a functional issue, if there is space in the shell then it is probably the footbed not functioning as it should and the best course of action is a custom footbed, if there is not enough width in the shell then the first thing is to stretch the shell and see if that solves the problem
the last thing you want to do is stretch the shell if there is already space as the foot will just rotate into the are and make the problem worse
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi Fiona,
I've recently had a similar situation also after touring. Basically the lump midway down the outside of the foot (styloid process of the 5th metatarsal) became enlarged and really really painful to the point where i thought maybe i fractured it.
Anyhow when got back i saw a podiatrist who said pain and inflammation at that point is typically a sign of tendonitis in the peroneus brevis (which runs behind the ankle and attaches at the base of the 5th metatarsal) and referred me to a sports physio.
He explained that this kind of injury normally happens when you go over on your ankle and then do some kind of sporting activity which can put consistent lateral force on that area- skiing generally and in particular long traverses on steep terrain. Treatment is physio on the affected area and also on the calf muscles and muscles down the outside of lower leg as these tend to compensate and over tighten exacerbating the situation further.
Your problem might be completely different but at a guess i'd imagine if you were lacking support around the arch then it could well increase the load on that area...could be something to think about.
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[quote="CEM"]Fiona, first thing is to see if there is space in the shell for the foot....
Is there an easy way to do this? The boot fitter moved a wooden stick around in the boot to make sure they were long enough but I don't recall anything being done re. the width. If I stand in the shells how do I work out if they are too big/small etc? It was the shops suggestion to stretch the shells when I returned with two sore feet. This seems to have fixed the left foot but the right one still rather unhappy.
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Fiona, if you remove the liner, find the centre of the boot front to back , then lift the front of your foot by 3-4mm then pivot on your heel, if you have more than a few mm of movement side to side then the shell should be ok and it is the footbed which is not doing its job properly, if you are touching both sides then the shell needs to be stretched before considering anything else
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Many thanks CEM, I'll try that this evening and let you know the result.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Does this pain come only from skiing or does it occur when skining up?
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The pain isn't as bad if I'm moving (e.g. skining, walking etc) but it's still there. It's worst when standing still, going on a poma/t-bar. It's also sore when skiing but strangely not too bad on steeper stuff.
I spent yesterday morning going up the Glas Maol poma (Glenshee) and skiing back down via various routes. My foot was pretty annoyed by lunchtime. The afternoon I spent mostly on the Cairnwell Chair which meant my feet weren't weighted and the short ski back down the Tiger didn't seem to hurt.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I find if I open all the buckles the foot shifts forward and gives me problems when skining up. The two middle buckles need to be closed (although not too tight) to get around this problem. Sounds like you have another type of problem though if you were only on pomas/lifts.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
| I spent yesterday morning going up the Glas Maol poma (Glenshee) and skiing back down via various routes. My foot was pretty annoyed by lunchtime |
keep off the pomas/lifts, your supposed to be a tourer now 
I was told to use pist boots for piste and touring boots for touring. The touring bindings aren't as strong as piste bashing bindings and will wear quicker.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
CEM
if you remove the liner, find the centre of the boot front to back , then lift the front of your foot by 3-4mm then pivot on your heel, if you have more than a few mm of movement side to side then the shell should be ok and it is the footbed which is not doing its job properly, if you are touching both sides then the shell needs to be stretched before considering anything else |
Okay, I've tried this now and my left foot has more space than the right foot. With my foot in the centre of the shell my foot doesn't touch the sides but if I move my foot a tiny bit back/forward then I end up touching the sides of the shell. The Denali TT's are shaped and it seems that a small amount of fore/aft movement limits the amount of sideways movement considerably. I'm guessing this means the shell is still an issue?
I then tried comparing against the amount of space I have in my downhill boots - the downhill boots have a few mm more space than the Denali's and seem to be the same width along the front section of the boot thus any fore/aft movement doesn't squish my foot at all.
I've spent quite a bit of time tonight experimenting with insoles to see if I can find anything that helps. My ancient knackered Superfeet from my downhill boots seem to give the best support but don't get rid of the pain. The new Superfeet I had in the Denali's seem to provide the least support and my foot seems to rotate towards the outside of the foot most with them. The insoles supplied with the Denali's are probably the comfiest but also don't get rid of the pain.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Fiona, sounds like you need some new custom footbeds and a bit of shell work
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Poster: A snowHead
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Many thanks CEM.
I'll get the boots back to the shop this week so they can have another go at the shell. I'll also enquire about footbeds but I'm not sure they do anything other than off the shelf stuff.
With regard to the custom footbeds, are you talking orthotics here or something different, e.g. custom Superfeet etc?
You don't happen to know anyone in the Edinburgh area (or Scotland) that will do these? I can get to one of the Chamonix shops towards the end of the season but I'd rather get the problem sorted before that so I can enjoy the snow while it lasts.
Apologies for all the questions and many thanks for taking the time to respond.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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custom superfeet should be fine, best product ina touring boot is the Kork Vac (not the full kork) for edinburgh, try snowlines/footworks whatever they are called right now a little further afield craigdon mountian sports in Perth
whoever is strtching the shell needs to get it really hot really slowly and leave it on the press untill it is completely cold, Pbax is a pain to stretch especially if you rush it
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Many thanks CEM.
I know Colin in Snowlines/Footworks. He fitted my original (never had any problems  ) downhill boots back in 2001. Sadly they don't stock touring boots otherwise I'd have returned there for them.
I'll pass on the info re. Pbax stretching and hopefully the shop (Blues in Edinburgh) will suceed this time. Comparing the two boots after the first stretch the left boot is visibly wider than the right so it seems the right one just didn't stretch as much.
I'm guessing its best to wait till the boots have been stretched again before getting the footbeds? or could I get the footbeds made up without the boots?
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Just a quick update.
The offending boot has had a second stretch and a trip to Snowlines to have my existing Superfeet modified slightly.
This weekend I skinned up and skied down 3 Corbetts totalling 1200m ascent one day and a lazy (flat light, couldn't be bothered) 450m the second day. Feet = happy, no blisters, no pain, success . For the first time this winter I left my husband behind on the uphill as I wasn't being crippled by my feet. I'm still getting the hang of the Denali top buckles (like snowboard bindings thus tricky to get the same tension each time) so keep alternating between too loose and stopping my circulation but I'll get that nailed in time.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and here's hoping the snow remains well into the springtime.
Fiona
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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on the buckle thing.... when you get the tension you want put a mark with a white or silver marker or similar on the ratchet strap, that way you can see where you need to get to
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Ah, thanks for the suggestion CEM, I did think about counting the ripples but marking the plastic would be so much simpler.
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