 Poster: A snowHead
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Ski-Accident-In-Austria-Tracy-Margaret-B-Killed-After-Colliding-With-Another-Skier-In-Kaprun/Article/201002315551464?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15551464_Ski_Accident_In_Austria%3A_Tracy_Margaret_B_Killed_After_Colliding_With_Another_Skier_In_Kaprun
A British mother-of-three has died after colliding with another skier on a half-term family holiday in the Austrian Alps.
The 46-year-old woman died on the spot despite desperate attempts to save her by a fellow skier who was a doctor.
She was identified by police in Kaprun, Austria, as Tracy Margaret B, but her full surname has not been released.
She is believed to come from Marlow, Buckinghamshire.
The victim was staying at the resort on the Kitzsteinhorn glacier with her husband and children Charlotte, Patrick and Phillip, aged eight to 12.
The female doctor and an ambulance team who arrived within minutes of the crash could not save Tracy, who died at the scene.
The slope was not difficult and there were excellent skiing conditions. Experts are accessing the scene of the accident today to try and find a cause.
Police spokesman Anton Steiner
The other skier - a 26-year-old Dutch woman - was helicoptered to nearby Zell am see clinic where she is being treated for severe injuries.
Police say neither of the skiers had been wearing crash helmets, compulsory for children in Austria but not for adults.
Kaprun police spokesman Anton Steiner said: "We are not sure how the accident could have happened.
"The slope was not difficult and there were excellent skiing conditions. Experts are accessing the scene of the accident to try and find a cause."
Steiner added: "Hopefully a post mortem will shed light on how this tragic accident could have occurred.
"Unfortunately there were no witnesses to the accident."
The Kaprun resort is where 155 people including a British ski instructor died when fire swept through a funicular railway ski lift 10 years ago.
Austria is set to reconsider plans to make helmets compulsory for all skiers after the horror smash.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sad News.
Has Skiing/boarding now got an image problem in that it is a everyday sport and not an extreme sport? or is that the right approach?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Am in Romania this week and discovered my eight year old nephew, a 1m high snow plough skier, was hit during his skiing lesson by a 20-something year old man when in Austria two weeks ago. Given the potential speeds that are easy to generate it is clear great danger exists.
Can't help but feel empathy for the husband and kids.
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Terrible news.
Dwarf Vader, despite accounts such as the above, skiing and boarding is not an extreme sport. If they were, badminton / football etc would need to be too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Intriguing that many insurance companies consider off-piste skiing to be a higher risk than on-piste. Of course much can go wrong off-piste - as has been discussed often in sH. Yet there have been times when I have felt distinctly safer off-piste than on - because of collision risk.
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achilles, I can understand that. Having been clouted quite badly three years ago, I'm very nervous of collisions. It's the principal reason I started wearing a lid.
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can't help but think that the good conditions and "easy" slope maybe gave both skiers a more relaxed attitude and made them less aware.
I said it in another thread that people need to be more aware of what is around and even behind you. There is nothing that can really be said to change what has happened but I hope at least 1 person reads this and takes note for the future. Even at the very least of saving a day or afternoons skiing because of an averted collision would make it worthwhile.
Also, cant believe its been 10 years since the fire, lots have changed..... I can remember when I hated lifts when people could still smoke on them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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According to the BBC cause of death was ruptured aorta. Nasty 
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| daehwons wrote: |
| ......I said it in another thread that people need to be more aware of what is around and even behind you. ..... |
You can keep saying again as much as you like, it won't change the fact that no matter what you do, there are some pistes where the idiots keep coming from above, and once on the piste, there is little you can do about it. I can think of some 'home runs' where there are regularly skiers out of control either through speed or lack of ability because of the steepness and maybe snow conditions involved. Les Deux Alpes has classic examples: Desmoiselles can be overcrowded, coupled with incidences of reckless speeding skiers; Valentin often has skiers falling from above and having a good chance of taking out those below them. In such circumstances I will look to see what the off-piste is like, I also consider (and sometimes take) a lift back down to the bottom of the slopes.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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achilles,
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In such circumstances I will look to see what the off-piste is like, I also consider (and sometimes take) a lift back down to the bottom of the slopes.
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I do exactly the same. Off piste normally safer (for me) in these circumstances, and there's no shame in taking the lift down when you're tired, it's busy and the conditions are deteriorating.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A good example of the home run is in Hemsedal Norway. Coming from the hill to the bottom car park many people boot down the slope used for beginners.
One thing that is not covered in any lesson I've been on is deliberately falling to prevent a collision rather than let your speed get out of hand.
A friend of mine said that being comfortable with falling makes you more confident in turning at speed. I see many learners that are simply going too fast because they panic if the speed gets uncomfortable. If they knew how to fall safely then they would have that "escape plan".
PS pretty sad events.
PPS also annoyed about the tabloid camping outside their door.
Cheers
Bob
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| According to the BBC cause of death was ruptured aorta. Nasty |
Hang on a minute, that might have been waiting to happen spontaneously. I know someone who died from a ruptured aorta, at a young age, 18 months ago. (He was in a hotel room at the time, having spent the day on a conductor's podium.)
Another one here for taking the lift down in the case of carnage on the home run.
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You know it makes sense.
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Hurtle, Given the timing much more likely to be a traumatic transection of the thoracic aorta or a response to blunt trauma to the abdominal aorta. As fatbob says - for 2 people to be so severely injured implies major energy transfer, and high speed.
Aortic ruptures are very rare in the under 60s. Thoracic aorta dissections (which are not ruptures) do affect a younger group. Gerard Houlier etc.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Is it possible that a ski pole caused the damage?
RIP and condolences to the family.
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Poster: A snowHead
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stoatsbrother,
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2 people to be so severely injured
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oh, I didn't realise the other person was badly injured too. (I obviously didn't read the report properly.)
Anyway, a truly dreadful thing to happen.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In these circumstances, would a helmet have saved her? So sad for the hubby and kids.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Helen Beaumont, a helmet would not have saved her - but logic rarely prevails against a bandwagon. Yes, it's very sad.
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| achilles wrote: |
| Helen Beaumont, a helmet would not have saved her - but logic rarely prevails against a bandwagon. Yes, it's very sad. |
Not that I'm doubting you, but how do you know that?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, fair point, I don't know - but I have not seen evidence to suggest it would have. Maybe one of our docs could comment.
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achilles, ah, thought you might have seen a press report which gave the cause of death.
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rob@rar, a ruptured aorta would suggets trauma to the body rather than the head, but I'm not an expert on that. Julesb was told a helmet would not have prevented a broken neck,as it was more than likely caused by the impact of the other skier to his body, but again, not sure how true that is. It would have prevented him briefly losing conciousness, and maybe he would have remembered what actually happened.
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rob@rar, achilles, If it is the case that it was a ruptured aorta then in this a helmet would make no difference. The aorta lies in the abdomen and chest. Does however take a big impact to rupture the aorta, assuming there was no predisposing conditions.
Thoughts completely with the family, horrific thing to happen..
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Without wishing to enter, yet again, a helmet debate...
Assuming it would not be practical to wear full body armour to ski, the logic of wearing a helmet is to prevent (always assuming it does, not going there either) injury to one of the most vulnerable and important bits of one's person. Better some protection than none at all. That is logical, irrespective of the rest of the over-rehearsed debate.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hurtle, I agree, and have purchased a helmet, and we both wear them now, but I still feel it is a personal choice to do so. My adults kids don't and that is their choice. If they were younger, I wouldn't give them that choice. No-one wore helmets when they learned to ski. julesb also has a back protector, but I'm not sure I would wear one.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hurtle, I agree and wore a helmet throughout my first week of skiing this season, since I thought there was a real risk of cuts and abrasions form rocks and tree branches. But I was under no illusion that a helmet would have saved me had I really smacked into a rock face or a tree.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 18-02-10 11:52; edited 1 time in total
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Mother of 3 dies in what appears to be a tragic accident, and within a dozen or so posts, the holier than thou crusaders turn it into a helmet debate. Awesome.
(can anyone medical please explain how a helmet may have saved a serious injury to the torso?)
Condolences to the family, and a swift recovery to the Dutch lass.
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You know it makes sense.
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The Voice of Reason, <--- not
No one is saying that a Helm..... oh forget it, I cannot be bothered to respond. You know the answer so why question it?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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the lack of witnesses suggests the piste was far from crowded. But for two people to be so severely injured the velocity of the crash must have been great. On crowded pistes people probably don't go so fast.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Helen Beaumont, totally and absolutely agreed. I wear a helmet following a collision, I don't like doing so, I know that it won't offer me protection in all circumstances and I would never, ever nag any adult to do so.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hurtle, not too keen on mine either, chin strap keeps slackening off, although it has solved my hat problem, as I could never find one small enough unless it was kiddy-sized.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| daehwons wrote: |
can't help but think that the good conditions and "easy" slope maybe gave both skiers a more relaxed attitude and made them less aware.
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Always the way, blue runs are far busier and more dangerous for that reason.
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These kind of injuries are most commonly associated with severe chest trauma, often relating to car accidents, so as suggested this must have been an accident with alot of impact.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I once managed to collide with one of the people I was skiing with off piste! (just a glancing blow, luckily) There was no one but us two within 200yards! I still don't know how we managed it, but I was just concentrating on doing regular turns down the slope and had no idea the other guy was anywhere near me. Shows one should regularly look off to each side, I suppose. On a crowded piste I would, but off piste it is not so obviously necessary. Makes me very aware, though, how one can be gradually converging at a similar speed without realising (and the danger of some goggles cutting your peripheral vision).
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I was skiing with my wife and kids in Kaprun just last week (wrote a trip report about it actually).
For anyone who doesn't know it, the Kitzsteinhorn blues (particularly Blues 4a and 4b, which from the description - very wide and shallow - sounds like they may have been where this happened) are all very easy and people do ski very quickly on them at times.
Last year on 4a, my eight-year-old daughter was stationary and talking to me when a girl of 18ish ski-ed right over the front of her skis, hitting her in the face with a pole; the girl was travelling at I would say 30-40mph; had she hit my daughter I have no doubt she would have killed her.
Obviously, not commenting on this particular tragedy as don't know the full details, and speed may not have been a factor, but generally I do wish fairly average skiers wouldn't come over all Tomba on what are effectively nursery slopes.
Incidentally, I very much doubt (as someone says above) that it was quiet on the Kitzsteinhorn on Tuesday; half term week for us and lots of European holidays starting; we were told it was going to be hellish busy.
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northernsoulboy,
If there is snow elsewhere the locals tend to ski other ski resorts than Kaprun. The peak Austrian holidays have passed (Salzburg school hols were last week, Vienna hols were the week before) so it's possible that many more skiers were skiing Kaprun last week.
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I was also in Kaprun last week with my wife and kids. My daughter is an instructor with the Oberschneider Ski School in Kaprun. I was also taken out bigtime by a Dutchman on the Maiskogel which is the "Family" slope in Kaprun itself. A thing I did notice as a 53 year old is that my tendency to ski as I was originally taught on the old long straight skis is that the Carver's line and mine is very different. Speed too. I am very slow compared to the smoother carving style. I don't feel as safe as I used to when everybody was using the same style. My daughter spent a week trying to re-educate me in carving but it is hard to change after so long. I feel very vulnerable to collisons from behind.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| ...... On crowded pistes people probably don't go so fast. |
I certainly have seen skiers weaving past others at high speed on the home run. Mostly the result is little more that the slower ones being startled/frightened, but the margin for error is often minute.
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| Quote: |
I very much doubt (as someone says above) that it was quiet on the Kitzsteinhorn on Tuesday
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well it said there were no witnesses, which doesn't suggest it was thronged, especially as it was clearly a very major collision. I agree some people go too fast on busy pistes, but I suspect that, like this one (and the one described above by snowball), collisions sometimes happen precisely because people think they've basically got the piste to themselves and aren't paying attention. Certainly people do go too fast on busy "home runs" too - which is why when I ski in those sort of places (Val D'Isere, L2A, I would always get a gondola down.
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FAQ
and did not want to open that can of worms again 
