 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi guys,
Just after some advice (again…) please.
I have mates who returned from their first family skiing trip with their two boys. They went to Morzine and stayed in Hotel Viking at the top of the Pleney. They opted using a well known TO (think posh glass) as it was a trip into the unknown for them.
However they had a bit of a bad experience which really started from landing in Geneva. There was no rep available so they found their way to their bus and their journey started. When they arrived at the bottom of the Pleney they were chucked off the bus and had to get into the cable car to get up the mountain. It was approx. 9:00pm so what should have been an exciting trip was a nightmare because the door would not shut – imagine their fear being on their first cable car at night with a door open. Anyway they arrived at their hotel and had a few beers to settle their nerves.
The next morning they woke up and were informed their lift passes were to be available to collect from 08:00 at reception – they had pre-booked lift passes and ski hire. They were advised to get their passes then get the bubble down the mountain, walk to the main road, cross it, go down a hill and turn left to find the ski hire shop.
However their passes were not made available until 09:15 so they then had 15 minutes to get to the bottom of the Pleney, find the ski shop, get fitted, get back up to the Pleney to drop the boys off at Ski School and then get the bubble up to the top of the Pleney to join their ski school.
Unsurprisingly this did not happen as they didn’t leave the ski hire shop until 11:00 due to some problem with their pre-booking. I would have thought the rep would have been on-hand to sort that out but he/she didn’t even bother to escort the guests down the mountain to the hire shop.
So they managed to get the boys to ski school at about 11:10 but had to be back to collect them at midday so they had no time to get back up to find their lesson and then get back down to collect the boys.
As they had never been skiing before they didn’t know what to do so had to miss their afternoons skiing as well as they had no idea how to turn or stop.
Obviously a letter of complaint has been sent to the TO and they have just responded saying that customers are advised that adult and child ski school drop offs are often in different locations and they advise that kids can be dropped off earlier. They also said that their ski hire shop does not open until 08:30 although they recognise that this causes problems so are trying to negotiate a new arrangement. And so to avoid having a dissatisfied customer they have offered them a £50.00 voucher to be used with that TO.
I think they are taking the proverbial – at the very least does £50.00 cover a days lift pass, lesson and ski hire for two people? I wouldn’t have thought so but I would be keen to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience and if so how did they resolve it?
For the record though once they managed to get skiing they loved it and are now in the process of booking a trip for next year. I did warn them that skiing was an expensive addiction – ha ha ha.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Sunshine 81
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Many years ago we had a problem with Crystal and their first response was a voucher to be used against next years holiday.
We simply wrote back saying we paid in pounds and therefore wanted our compenstion in pounds and that they should also revise the amount upwards, we also gave them 7 days to reply before we made a formal complaint to ABTA.
They trebled the compensation and sent us a cheque in full and final settlement. 
I suggest your friends do the same.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sunshine81, if they offered you fifty quid in vouchers, they're expecting to pay £200 in cash. Take Boredsurfin's approach.
Customer service isn't really TUI's thang - I did a training course with them one winter and didn't hear it mentioned once. Pants.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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As mentioned, the 50 quid voucher is their standard response.
Beggars belief that they:
1. ...think that offering a 50 quid sweetner will have you racing to re-book with them.
2. Especially in light of the fact that they knew that there was a problem before your friends showed up in resort, and had not resolved it.
The whole 'beg for forgiveness' attitude makes me sick.
Try to get more money, and then do as I have done since my episode with them in Gressoney in '96:
Don't use them again and don't recommend them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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At least they responded. I've been waiting 28 days for a response from Neilson. Another e-mail sent this week and still nothing.
I'm looking forward to speaking to ABTA. This could have been resolved with a decent apology and assurance that action would be taken, now I am at the point where they need to go way beyond that.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Monium, Be quick ABTA only give a certain length of time to start a complaint.
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| Monium wrote: |
At least they responded. I've been waiting 28 days for a response from Neilson. Another e-mail sent this week and still nothing.
I'm looking forward to speaking to ABTA. This could have been resolved with a decent apology and assurance that action would be taken, now I am at the point where they need to go way beyond that. |
We had a letter from Neilson about our situation before we even had chance to send a complaint letter, evidently they knew they had messed up and were hoping to head off some complaints. OH wrote, we got the standard acknowledgement and then a letter to say they are investigating.
OH similarly wrote to Thomas Cook airlines as the issue was largely to do with the flights, their response beggars belief, it is addressed to the wrong person, makes no reference at all to OH's letter and the contents of it, is quite clearly a standard letter in response to a complaint about the handling of a delay, it talks about aircraft technical problems when our delay was due to waiting for a broken down transfer coach. Just shows they don't read them and send out an automated response. He is considering his next step in light of the fact that they cannot even respond correctly to a letter.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Currently having similar fun and games with a Tour Operator. According to ABTA you have to write your complaint within 21 days to the TO who then have 28 days to respond. If there response is unsatisfactory then you have to write another letter to the TO stating the issues and again stating what the minimim compensation you feel acceptable (this is the current position I am in). There are then no guidelines stating how long the TO has to respond to this second letter or when to report to ABTA. I sent my letter this week so will give them another 2 weeks before reporting to ABTA if it has not been resolved.
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Just don't get me started on TUI and how appalling cr@p they are. Mike Pow has it right. let your wallet do the talking. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Is Ski Beat part of TUI?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sunshine81, All good advice...but the biggest issue was caused by the unsuitability of the hotel for a family of novices. It's in a great location but not much use if you're not an experienced skier, especially if you then have to back to the bottom to get your rental kit, and ski in / ski out is only of benefit if you can ski.
Perhaps a different more compact resort would have helped - next time make sure they ask snowheads for advice!
Agreed the TO sounds a bit flaky, but then again if it was 1/2 term week...
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| Is Ski Beat part of TUI? |
No (and you know it!)
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You know it makes sense.
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I've never had anything but praise for Crystal, but I agree much of it depends on the competence of the reps. Last season they went to great lengths to get me the accommodation I wanted when their allocation was already fully booked and I've been pretty lucky with decent staff. OK, a fairly clueless rep in Austria once, but he was keen and friendly, just not the sharpest tool in the box. However, I've never booked/used ski school through them so can't comment on that. Lift passes are usually distributed on the transfer bus or in the evening of arrival day (i.e. the night before the first day skiing). Sounds like the staff weren't prepared for late evening arrivals in the case of Sunshine81's mates and this had a knock-on effect.
They should push for a decent level of compensation. A friend of mine works for TUI and their standard initial offer is a lowly voucher, but the next stage almost always results in a decent monetary compensation offer (as long as the customer's complaint is reasonable of course).
On the whole they are a decent mainstream operation, just occasionally let down by poor staff.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| Is Ski Beat part of TUI? |
No (and you know it!) |
Couldn't resist the similarity! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Agree you need to kick of with these people unfortunatly the "nice" approach hardly ever works. Also they should have dragged the head rep/resort manager out of bed and put a rocket up his/her back side.
Its a sad world when you have to "kick off" to get a decent response from people.
Was in Les Arc 1950 a few years back and they tried to put 8 guys in an apartment with 3 double beds, after we had booked an apartment with 8 single beds. Our inital polite approach was fobbed of, we then blocked reception and prevented an entire coach party checking in, it was amazing how quickly the room issue was resolved.
PS Glad to here they have fallen in love with the sport
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We had a similar lift pass/ski school problem with Crystal. Rep delivered our passes to our apartment, but the adult passes belonged to another couple. We fortunately took kids to ski school, but then had to run up and down several levels of Belle Plagne to try and find the rep, we also ended up missing a whole morning of the ski school. They had also booked us into the complete beginners group.
As we had a great holiday apart from that and because Crystal had the best price the following season, we still booked with them, but organised our own lift passes and ski school. I can see why complete beginners wouldn't want to do that though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
.but the biggest issue was caused by the unsuitability of the hotel for a family of novices.
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I'd agree with that. I think people taking their very first holiday need lots of guidance, whether from friends or a tour op - getting the family into ski school that first morning is a mission, even with more convenient accommodation.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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we did the same as Boredsurfing, returned the voucher to crystal and said we expected £200 in cash. We got £200 in cash.
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Sunshine81, not just about ski trips - anything 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| Monium, Be quick ABTA only give a certain length of time to start a complaint. |
Complaint has been sent to them and they have acknowledged the thing and given me a reference number with their automated e-mail.
Have e-mailed again to tell them their 28 days are up. I guess I'd better send another note with what I think is reasonable compensation for their truly awful attempt at 4 star and total failure to resolve various issues raised with them. They haven't responded to my latest e-mail. Looks like the standard of customer services goes right to the top of their organisation.
Anybody got a useful contact at ABTA?
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| Quote: |
They haven't responded to my latest e-mail.
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Monium, might well be worth sending them a proper paper letter. They'll get far fewer of them, and might take more notice. Maybe even send it recorded delivery!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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So much depends on the quality of the resort staff. We went with Crystal this half-term as they were the only company offering what we needed. Knowing their reputation I was a bit apprehensive, but as it happened the holiday was A1 in every respect. The reps were a husband and wife team who had left "real" jobs for the experience and could not have been better.
I have also always had excellent experiences with Neilsens and Inghams.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've used Crystal 3 times. The experiences range from bad to terrible. Never again, penny pinching doesn't come close to describing their MO.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| I've used Crystal 3 times. The experiences range from bad to terrible. Never again, penny pinching doesn't come close to describing their MO. |
Whereas I have used Crystal (or Thomson) 5 times for ski trips, and have never had any issues at all with them.
It seems that there is always an element of "luck of the draw, and some will have good trips while others won't.
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You know it makes sense.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
Whereas I have used Crystal (or Thomson) 5 times for ski trips, and have never had any issues at all with them.
It seems that there is always an element of "luck of the draw, and some will have good trips while others won't. |
Or low expectation.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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4 Crystal experiences for me and like alex_heney no issues at all. Nor low expectations. I agree with Chris Bish that a lot depends on the competence of the resort staff. I would say that in my four holidays with Crystal, only one rep was a bit clueless. A pleasant enough chap but clearly a bit out of his depth. Going back a bit further I have also travelled with VIP, Skiworld and Inghams. Again, no issues to report. One flight home was delayed and then diverted to a different UK airport, completely out of the control of the TO but we landed to find reps waiting and coaches laid on to take us back to our original departure airport, albeit 12 hours late.
This season I have already received an email from the resort rep with a pre-departure info pack, his mobile number and to email him if I have any questions before leaving. I'm not due to go for another week. That seems reasonably efficient to me.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
They haven't responded to my latest e-mail.
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Monium, might well be worth sending them a proper paper letter. They'll get far fewer of them, and might take more notice. Maybe even send it recorded delivery! |
I'm the kind of guy who goes out of his way to find out the MD of the company, and send a copy of my complaint to them every week for months in the hope of getting a response. Eventually they all respond.
How ridiculous that if the rep in the resort had bothered to turn up and take sensible action none of this would have been necessary.
It really shouldn't be necessary though, I may just not bother with paper letters (I have the e-mails to back up the 28 days waiting for them to actually do something) so I think I need to talk to ABTA and find out what my options are.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
Whereas I have used Crystal (or Thomson) 5 times for ski trips, and have never had any issues at all with them.
It seems that there is always an element of "luck of the draw, and some will have good trips while others won't. |
Or low expectation. |
There may be some who have low expectations.
Probably more who complain because they have unrealistic expectations.
But I don't believe either of us fit into either of those camps.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Sunshine81 wrote: |
Hi guys,
Thanks for your advice and previous experiences. This will certainly help in the next stage of the complaint. Lots if interesting points have been made for me I think fundamentally the TO has got it wrong in terms of delivering the ski pass late and their arrangements with a ski hire shop. |
True but if you're staying up the hill and all the rental shops are at the bottom then it should be obvious you'll have a day one problem unless you can get into resort early enough on the x-over day to get the kit before heading up the hill....
Still at least your friends have learnt the 1st rule of ski holidays - location is everything...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think part of the problem here was the late arrival in resort. Was the flight delayed or something? Crystal flights normally aim to get you to resort early afternoon so plenty of time to sort equipment hire and lift passes for the next day. Sounds like the resort team were not at all geared up for late arrivals.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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queen bodecia, I've often arrived late evening on Crystal flights, not due to delays, it was the time of the flight from Newcastle.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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queen bodecia, I've also had late flights with Crystal and in my experience, lift passes are always delivered in the morning at the breakfast table regardless of flight time. But now that I think about it, all 3 trips with Crystal were to the same resort, so maybe that's relevant.
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Mollerski, I would like to assure you I do not have low expectation and that my critical faculties are well-honed. Please respect my opinion.
I have done many DIY trips as well as TO trips. It is horses for courses. For many the services of a TO are an excellent option. They would not be in business otherwise.
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| Chris Bish wrote: |
Mollerski, I would like to assure you I do not have low expectation and that my critical faculties are well-honed. Please respect my opinion.
I have done many DIY trips as well as TO trips. It is horses for courses. For many the services of a TO are an excellent option. They would not be in business otherwise.
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Did I disrespect your opinion? 
I also, have used the services of TO's for many years. I have also been on many DIY trips. I agree, most TO's do offer a good service. However, in my experience, Crystal, on the 3 occasions I've used them, have come-up short. The last time being last New Year in Canazei. The chalet was ok, it was understaffed and the food portions were ridiculous. Being NY week, we'd paid top dollar for a service that was skinned to the bone.
Previous Crystal trips I wont go into. IMV companies such as Neilson, Mark Warner and Total offer a better standard of holiday for similar money. This is only my opinion of course.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Monium wrote: |
At least they responded. I've been waiting 28 days for a response from Neilson. Another e-mail sent this week and still nothing.
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Same here! I have an issue related to a refund on some pre-booked lift passes. My initial letter went to them in early January - still no response. I've been putting off publishing the details on SH's for nearly two months in the hope of a positive outcome but it doesn't look likely.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| I think part of the problem here was the late arrival in resort. Was the flight delayed or something? Crystal flights normally aim to get you to resort early afternoon so plenty of time to sort equipment hire and lift passes for the next day. Sounds like the resort team were not at all geared up for late arrivals. |
Crystal flights vary considerably in arrival times.
For several years the Bristol- Innsbruck flight they used (operated by Lauda Air) was due to arrive in Innsbruck at 5:15pm - so normally between 1 and 2 hours later than that in resort.
I've been on others that weren't arriving until very late afternoon too, but also quite a few which arrive in time to get an hour or two skiing on arrival day.
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FAQ
