 Poster: A snowHead
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Enquired about a couple of return tickets over the phone from Rail Canterbury for Ashford to Bourg St Maurice - not particularly cheap at £191.40 return each, but that was all there was available. I said I would take the tickets if they were available. They noted my credit card details.
Within minutes of my call, while waiting for confirmation that the times were available, I learnt that one passenger couldn't travel. I then rang the company non stop between 10 and 12 - it just rang out. When I eventually got through early afternoon I discovered that the bookings had been made. Could they cancel one? Sorry - they're non-refundable, non-transferable. (They had not told me this beforehand).
Despite telling them that I had been trying to ring them all morning without success, they were completely disinterested.
Pretty shabby really - I don't know if I've got a case to argue for some form of refund, especially as there's nothing in writing.
Found their attitude very unhelpful.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If they failed to tell you their terms and conditions in advance of the order you might theoretically have a case, unfortunately trying to prove it is another matter
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Try the credit card company. Tell them you are refusing to pay in the circumstances. They might have some clout. Just an idea.... 
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PG, you're in the RIGHT! they have to by law tell you the terms and conditions of the package/ tickets theyre selling you at the time of booking. Its the reason why I had to read 5mins of scripted blurb - go for the neck!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PG, I guess you know all the facts ... they should have told you the Ts and Cs etc. However proving it (do ask if your message was recorded) may be a different matter. As you have already spoken to someone there worth talking with owner ( Phil Nicholson????) ... I am unsure if they employ any/many telesales staff though, and may have been him or his wife who took the call.
You will find that the CC companies will be very amenable on this ... CC Acts etc, but better to try and sort with responsible people first.
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Exchanges are getting a little testy. Of course I am now being told that I was given the T & Cs over the phone during booking. I was not.
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PG, common sense dictates Rail Canterbury should at least try to refund you the £££.
But.
You did instruct them to buy the tickets for you if they could. Which they did. They've lived up to their end of the bargin and delivered what you asked for. Sadly the fact that they failed to answer your call has very little relevance from a legal perspective. You didn't manage to alter your instructions to Rail Canterbury before they had in fact carried out your instructions.
I'm not saying the law is necessarily fair, so don't shoot the messenger!
If Rail Canterbury have any ethical notions at all they would carry out a decent customer relations exercise to see what they find out re: your cancellation options. But they're not legally obligated to help you out, and based on their attitude so far that looks like the line they're taking....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Manda, what on earth are you on about. Asking for informed opinions is par for the course on SH. The legal position by the way is accurately described by those who referred to the issue of T & Cs, and not as you portray above.
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Ah.... in fact I did refer to the T&C position, accurately. But you say I didn't, and I can't be both
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I apologise for not pointing out that I was referring to your initial, entirely misleading post, with its description of what constitutes a legal perspective according to Manda.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think T&C need only be advised your normal legal rights may be restricted. In this particular case, I think PG has no legal case. He asked for tickets for a service, he did not stipulate a refundable fare, and he offered payment - ie he entered into a contract, willing seller, willing buyer, with a consideration. Rail Canterbury have completed their deal. As I see it, they have met their obligations. It's a bit like buying goods that are fit for for their purpose from a shop. If you then find you have no need for the goods after all, if you take them back promptly, many shops - interested in good customer relations - will give a refund. But they are not obliged to. That said, I am puzzled that Rail Canterbury are arguing the toss on whether they specified their T&C. Perhaps they are tring to make sure all possible bases are covered.
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It will be interesting to see what the CC company has to say.
I would complain to the travel industry body to which they adhere .... except that they are members of none ...
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You know it makes sense.
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Don't misunderstand me - I certainly think it would have been courteous - to say the least - if Rail Canterbury had given you a headsup on what you were buying. Good luck in sorting it out .
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Do the Distance Selling Regulations and their "cooling off periods" apply, since PG was not there in person?
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Poster: A snowHead
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snowbunny, probably not as PG initiated the contact, if he could prove that the company had not advised him on the T&C of the tickets he might have a chance but doing so is likely to be difficult to say the least
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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At first glance, there seems to be very little protection for the consumer making a purchase by phone in circumstances like these... it would seem to be one person's word against the other.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PG : I think it is no different than purchasing tickets on the internet from Ryanair. Try and get the amount refunded!. I think that they have a statement of the sort " I agree to the terms and conditions " which is explicit and clear.
By all means apply to their better nature to refund the amount, then try the credit card route. But I am inclined to agree with Nick Zotov regarding the contract position. There is an implicit contract in your instruction to the company and a follow-on implicit acceptance to the T&C. " Get me tickets for .... ". They got them and performed their part of the contract. I do not think you will be successful with either the company nor the credit card company.
Perhaps in your initial approach to them ( to get the refund ) do not tie them up in the nitty gritty of arguing about the non-disclosure of T&C and they may be prepared as a matter of goodwill to refund the ticket. Saving face!
Good luck anyways in your claim
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 22-03-05 18:32; edited 2 times in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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PG, but if you could find the length of time the call took (itemised bill?) you could show there was no way they could have read out all the T 'n C's to you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am a bit shocked to read all this, all my dealings with them have been very cordial.
I hope you get the right result
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| PG wrote: |
| At first glance, there seems to be very little protection for the consumer making a purchase by phone in circumstances like these... it would seem to be one person's word against the other. |
Actually, maybe not, most organisations routinely record the calls nowadays. I had a situation a few years back where it came down to my version of a call differing from a companys, I asked them about the call monitoring and, for what ever reason, they backed down. Either they couldn't pull the call records or they could and it supported my version, or, of course, they saw reason anyway.
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PG, thse people obviously know how to make a bad situation worse. If they're going to rely on their T&Cs, they need to have some prima facie evidence that you were made aware of them. Good luck.
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PG, if your credit card is issued by a British bank, then under the consumer credit act, they assume equal liability with the merchant for breach of contract or misrepresentation. In my experience, they're easier to pursue and will usually fold under pressure, at least if you don't make a habit of it. This doesn't apply to debit cards and I haven't the faintest regarding French cards (though the US is certainly similar to the UK).
Apologies if these points have already been made - I've only skimmed this thread.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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