 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, looking for some resort advice, we are 2 skiers, both beginners and 1 snowboarder, also a few hours experience. Will have done about 10 hours dry slope instruction/practice before going away for our first family ski holiday. We also have a baby who will be 3 months + 1week when we plan to go. I have looked at Cervinia due to the large number of beginner slopes but they have very little in the way of babysitting.
Ideally we are after:
Fly from Stansted or Norwich flying out 27/03/10 for 7-10 days
Babysitting for 3 month old during day (9 - 5ish) - most important
Catered chalet or hotel for 7-10 days
Budget - dependant on whats on offer.
Any ideas or pointers for me?
Thanks in advance
Graeme
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Are you joking?!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Why would I be joking?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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1. the journey - even if you fly you will have a long transfer. I would never have attempted a journey longer than a few hours with a baby this young.
2. Unless your baby is an amazing sleeper you will be tired from being up with the baby in the night and tired from learning to ski. Recipe for tears and exhaustion.
3. If you leave the baby from 9-5 with some one else I take it the baby will be being bottle fed?
4. Would you feel happy leaving a wee baby with a complete stranger in another country all day?
I will dare you to post your query on Mumsnet for some proper feedback!
If you seriously want to learn to ski with a baby this young please take a grandparent or nanny with you.
We took our first child on a skiing holiday when he was 10 months. With hindsight I'd say even this was too young but we were competent skiers (therefore not too shattered), did not ski all day and he was on solids. We went with a UK operator who had a creche with professional nannies. At the time as a full time mother I was desperate for a break but our son developed an ear infection (but we didnt' realise until getting home) and woke up screaming at night. Imagine if you are in a chalet with thin walls and every sound travels to the next room. The chalet host never prepared our sons meals at the correct time so he was always too tired to eat them. All in all it was a complete disaster. Bad enough that we didn't go skiing again for 5 years until both children were old enough to ski and enjoy the Alps.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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graeme72,
We're taking our 12 month old for the first time this February. What we've decided is to do half day lessons each, me in the morning, wife in the afternoon. That way one of us will always be with our daughter.
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snowymum, you are just to helpful. Thankyou for your valuable insight and advice. 
Sbirring, not a bad idea, plus we have my 16 year old with us who is happy to babysit as well so possibly an option.
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A lady in my office has just been skiing with her husband son, daughter in law and grandson (who is 7 months old).
They went to Scheffau.
Now, I can't comment on the creche facilities as they looked after the baby between them, but what they did say was they took the baby up the mountain and one of them sat in the restaurant/drank hot chocolate and looked after the baby for a few hours, and then they switched. I think they managed this relatively easy and brought the baby down in the afternoon.
Ski welt is a huge ski area so likely to have some terrain for beginners.
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I obviously wasted my time responding to you grahame. wish I hadn't bothered.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Snowymum - sorry you had a bad experience with your 10mth old but it doesn't follow that everyone is going to have a bad time.
I, and friends of mine have regularly taken small babies OP's age overseas, my two girls have been as babies from 4mths on short haul holidays within Europe and long haul to the USA, Japan, New Zealand and Australia.
I dare say on Mumsnet not everyone is going to agree with your experience there either.
The one thing I will point out to OP is that he is being very optimist and not to expect too much in terms of time on the slopes. And some babies do get colic when very young (both mine did) which means they cry all night long (so nobody gets any sleep) and some babies don't cope well at all at altitude so it may be better to look at accommodation that isn't very high. To be completely realistic Mum may not get much out of the holiday at all but as long as this is understood then go for it.
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graeme72, Have a look at Esprit- they have a very good reputation for childcare but I think only take babies from 4 months.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We took ours for the first time when they were 11 months and just turned 2. The 11 month old was a lot easier than the 2 year old! We went by car, self catering and with non skiing grandparents. I'm not sure I would have considered flying, a catered chalet or a creche.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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graeme72, we went skiing with our 8 week old and most people thought we were mad. I only skiied on two occasions (half day each) and my husband babysat, but I knew I wouldn't really be skiing so my expectations were of a week in a nice chalet where someone else could cook and clean and I could just relax with my daughter. We also went last season when she was 13 months old and I skiied then.
Both holidays turned out to be great but we chose carefully. The first time we went to Morzine with a small chalet company (Simply Morzine) with a private and short transfer. We flew to Geneva as we hoped that would be subject to fewer delays compared to regional airports, the transfer was only an hour or so and we had the option of stopping when we needed to, but it wasn't necessary as she slept all the way! They also provided a car seat. We went with a group so we pretty much took over the whole Chalet except for two rooms, but everyone else loved having a baby around fortunately! I also had access to a fridge and the kitchen (except at dinner time). They also had a lovely outdoor hot tub and a good selection of DVDs so it was good for a non-skier!
Last year we went to Scheffau and stayed at the Alpin Hotel. Again, the flights were short and to major airports and the transfer was about 2 hours (slight delay). This time we went with Crystal in order to use the creche facilities and I can't fault them. The creche was clean, bright and the staff were lovely. By this time I was back at work so my daughter was used to a nursery environment and settled in fine. We also had access to a fridge and a microwave and evening meal was a buffet so it was easy to juggle a toddler and meal times.
Both resorts would be fine for a beginner, perhaps Scheffau has the edge in terms of easier slopes.
I have no regrets about going at all, especially as we are expecting baby number 2 in 8 weeks which has written skiing off the agenda both cost wise and logistically for a couple of years!
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graeme72, we met a couple in Flaine who had a three month old with them. The hotel provided a creche for the baby, and the parents skied for most of the day. At that age, provided they are warm and well-fed, they will be happy. It was a Club Med hotel, but they don't have one there any more.
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You know it makes sense.
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graeme72, As has been implied - don't expect to get a lot of skiing done so I would treat it as a holiday with a bit of skiing thrown in.
We did this last year with our daughter (admittedly a bit older at 6 months).
We went to Mayrhofen 2nd week of Easter. Flight to Munich (you can do this with easyjet), bus transfer with 4 seasons (baby was free I think and they supplied child seat).
We put our daughter in local creche (http://www.mayrhofen.at/familien-urlaub-tirol/wuppys-kinderland.html?L=1) - (they were just running mornings at that time of year - you may find the same this year).
Mayrhofen is a proper town so theres plenty of other things to do as well, but if you want to ski I would start up on the Ahorn - it's ideal for beginners.
PM me if you want more details.
Hamish
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thoroughly agree that a granny is the best option. Advice that you shouldn't travel more than a couple of hours with a small baby is well wide of the mark, in my experience. 3-4 month old babies are absolutely IDEAL for travelling. You've got some idea of how they tick, they can't get themselves into trouble, they don't eat solids and they're not heavy to carry. 100% easier if they're breastfed as hygiene is still pretty vital at that age.
After that, travel gets steadily more difficult until they're at least 3!
We did a 6 week trip with 6 week old (to start with) fully breastfed baby. Admittedly not skiing, but started with 10 days in Disneyworld and Washington sightseeing, all on public transport, and with no pushchair (using a front carrier). With a 5 and 7 year old. It was made easier by not needing heavy clothing (summer), but really it was just not a problem and everyone enjoyed the trip, which included two transatlantic flights (as we were living in Barbados at the time and going home to the UK on leave).
That Mumsnet lot must lead very protected lives.....
As for ski holidays, I'd personally go for self-catering with such a little baby - good to have your own place to pace around with them at night if necessary, rather than struggle in a hotel room, and there's nothing to stop you buying in some really nice food from "traiteurs" to keep the work to a minimum. Granny could help with that, too......
You need somewhere where your accommodation is very, very, very, close to the pistes and ski school meeting place. There are plenty of places where you can get morning OR afternoon lessons - you could split up for lessons if baby sitting is a problem.
If you are determined to find full time 9 - 5 child care I think you might struggle unless with one of the upmarket operators in places like Val D'Isere who will buy in (expensive......) baby sitting. e.g. http://www.finlayski.com/valdisere/facts_kids.htm
Not that Val D'Isere is a good place for beginners. Taking someone with you, and renting your own place, might not cost any more.
Like one or two of the posters above I wouldn't personally leave such a tiny baby with strangers all day long - but lots of people do, and I certainly don't think the idea of a ski holiday is bonkers.
The newly-delivered mother of said baby should, obviously, put in a fair bit of effort to get everything back together (gradually...)and build up core strength. But what a great incentive to do so!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I am a parent and I have just been on my first ski trip. OK my little girl was 15 months old but here is my 2p worth-
Chalet is the best choice. You can put the baby to bed and relax (or as near as possible with a 3 month old) safe in the knowledge that your child is only a few steps away. In a hotel you may find yourself isolated in your hotel room unless you have found the perfect balance of keeping a baby happy/getting them to sleep/feeding them etc. etc. whilst in a public place.
Will your baby keep other guests awake? If there is any likelihood then book a chalet deemed to be ‘family friendly’. Any guests without kids can go whistle for not choosing a chalet targeted at adults. The live and learn theory!
Make sure crèche is near chalet. It saves putting layers on you and baby. Ours was next door.
If possible take a family member to help with child care as your nipper is quite young.
We split our days. Mornings on the slopes, afternoons of fun with daughter in the snow. It was great.
Be prepared for the journey. They are long enough when on schedule. If you experience delays you may find the stress levels increasing significantly.
Need any more help please ask and I will do my best.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
As for ski holidays, I'd personally go for self-catering with such a little baby - good to have your own place to pace around with them at night if necessary, rather than struggle in a hotel room
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Good point, but it is nice not to cook when on holiday.  You could of course eat out regularly but then there is the cost and the baby to think of.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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there is the cost and the baby to think of.
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well self-catering and eating out/buying nice food in would probably not be any more expensive than a hotel. And having to eat at a time pre-determined by somebody else is absolutely NOT what I'd want with a small baby. Nor would all hotels/chalets be understanding about babies in the dining room. Especially if they're unhappy. But everyone is different - I particularly dislike hotels which, as far as I'm concerned, are places where I'm paid to stay when working away from home! Good chalets are great - but as pointed out, they do often have pretty small rooms and thin walls!
We were fine in huge hotel rooms in Disneyworld - two vast double beds, one for us, one for the boys, and the baby (who is expecting her first baby in 3 weeks  ) started the night sleeping in a drawer, as a rule, but generally ended it in our big bed. But American hotel rooms bear little resemblance to those in many Alpine places.
another point is that few european alpine TOs give 10 day options - they're routine in the US, and perhaps childcare would be more accessible there. But it's a long way.......
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graeme 72 - You don't like my post because it wasn't what you wanted to hear.
I think it would be more helpful if people warned you of some things that might not be ideal so you can weigh up the pros and cons. Instead all the chaps are weighing in to show off about how they never missed a skiing holiday for their baby etc. No doubt their babies skied black runs as soon as they could walk too! They must have slept through the entire journey and the night too. And no doubt never cried when the parents dropped them off at the creche in the morning.
I'm all for an adventure but I genuinely don't think I'd try skiing the first time with a baby so young unless you can take grandparents or other close relatives to share the childcare load. There is the risk of the journey not being straightforward (see the skibeat thread on here) and when journeys go wrong I have found it is harder if you have very young children. If a child is prone to ear infections being up a mountain might make things worse.
However if you are keen to go anyway I would recommend getting the direct ski train to the alps and maybe go for self catering. I'd recommend Les Arcs or La Rosiere as resorts.
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should have written direct daytime Eurostar ski train above.
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If you do self-cater and eat out, at 3 months old, baby will happily sleep in a pushchair next to your table. You won't be disturbing anyone else if baby does have a restless night either. Don't choose a high altitude resort, and baby will be less likely to have their sleep disturbed.
http://www.snowangelnannies.co.uk/ offers nanny services in Alpe D'Huez, Deux-Alpes, and I think Serre Chevalier, they may be able to help or offer your advice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
direct ski train to the alps and maybe go for self catering. I'd recommend Les Arcs or La Rosiere as resorts.
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Not sure about that La Plagne or Les Arcs are closest to the train stations. La Rosiere is quite a transfer and can also suffer from high winds.
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Les Arcs is right next to Bourg st maurice the terminus of the Eurostar ski train. If you stay at 1600 you can get the funicular railway from the station up the mountain.
La rosiere is a 15 -30 minute taxi ride from bourg st maurice. We used taxis bouzon and I think the rate was approx £60 each way.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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boredsurfing - you are right about the winds at la rosiere - baby needs a balaclava there!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Certainly agree with pam w, that the travel is not a problem. Flew long haul with our kids from age 2-3 weeks or so. We skied with them from age about 4 months. We were living abroad at the time and used granparents as baby sitters when very young . If they don't baby sit they don't get to see their grandchildren. 
Self catering worked well for us, reasonable sized appartments were probably helpful so everyone did not feel on top of each other.
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Graham, I would put a call into ski famille to see if they are ok with 3 months, I have been with them twice, and they are excellent. If they can do 3 month old, there are plenty of blue easy runs at les gets, which is only 75 minutes from Geneva, if you book the morning ( not the early one, the one that get in about 11.30) BA flight , this reduces you travel time. The nannies are all great, and you can get back mid afternoon if you are worried about anything. If you are mainly on the blue slopes , you could get back to the chalet within an hour if you had to. The other thing that is a plus, all the other guests have children, so no stress.
This will not be the cheapest option, but I can really say they are brilliant. Also Les Gets is great and all the staff are very helpful.
I spent my last week skiing in hospital in Thonlon with my 2 years old who had pneumonia, and was not worried about how my 4 year old was being looked after.
Sorry BA info for Gatwick, but consider staying at premier in , it all extra cost, but makes the travel easier.
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You know it makes sense.
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Les Gets would be better than La Rosiere - which is a bit high altitude for such a littlie.
snowymum, we're not showing off, just providing some evidence of experiences other than yours, which was of a miserable holiday which sounds horrible. I have done a lot of travelling with kids - in three continents - or maybe 4, come to think of it, and am well aware that there can be problems. But I'd still argue that there are a lot fewer problems with 3 month old babies than older ones - very energetic crawlers/climbers/launchers off sofas are probably the most difficult age, but 2 year olds can be a big pain, too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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For a FIRST trip for all of you it might be a bit adventurous, I've holidayed with multiple experienced friends with a 1-2-3year old though and it's mostly about the childcare.
Honestly in your situation I'd want to recruit a tame babysitter (grandparent, whoever) to take with you, so you and your partner can enjoy learning and practising together - rather than taking an hour here and there. For experienced skiers/boarders taking the odd hour on the slopes as suits you and baby works fine - it's trickier when you are learning the sport too!
Resort wise I'd second staying low, which makes late season a bit tricky but probably makes Austria attractive? The villages there tend to be low, with short transfers from salzburg.
Good Luck whatever you decide!
aj xx
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'd second the ski famille option. We stayed with them in Reberty, albeit without a baby, but from what we could see the set up was pretty spot on for those with children. We did a quick review on our blog if you want an independent look at it. http://bit.ly/7Qry93 Reberty is in Les Menuires, 3 Valleys so you can fly into any of the airports, though CHambery is closest.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Agree with pam w that it was easier travelling with a babe-in-arms than it is now with an active toddler.
graeme72, Things can go wrong, we had an extra long transfer last year due to the avalanche risk but we just made sure we had enough nappies and food in our hand luggage to cover 24 hours. If a baby is being bottle fed then the airports will allow you to take powder in your hand luggage and Milton sterilising tablets are really good as a sterilising back up. You can also take baby bottles with water in them but you'll be asked to taste some. Once you are through security then Boots sell ready made cartons of formula. If Mum is b-feeding then it makes life easier.
Go armed with enough food, nappies, Calpol, teething gel and gripe water and I'm sure you'll be fine with a 3 month old! Probably best to avoid high altitude resorts and feeding the baby on take off and landing helps their ears adjust to the changes in pressure. We found our daughter was more thirsty in the resort as the air is so much drier and the hotels and chalets can be quite warm.
Maybe we were lucky as our daughter never really suffered with Colic and often slept whilst in the car, plane etc, but most 3 month old babies we have known have been ok as they've yet to start teething, don't need the same level of entertainment and distraction as a toddler and are usually fairly settled into a routine by then which makes planning a bit easier.
The childcare issue is a very personal thing and all depends on whether the parent is comfortable leaving the baby at that age.
Unfortunately my daughter won't get the opportunity to ski a black run until she is 4 but we'll skip the nursery slopes and start her off on one and I'm sure she'll be an expert in no time 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not sure if its what you are looking for but for the last four years we have stayed in Neige et ciel in Les menuires. Although the creche is mainly french I cannot fault it in any way. The first time we went our little one was one years old but i do know for a fact that they cater for babies at an additional charge. we therefore placed her in the creche after breakfast and collected her at around one oclock the first year and two the following years. We then played with her on a sledge ect in the afternoons but got the morning to our selves.
The hotel is half board with wine for the evening meals and they have a great reception area with toys and tv etc. You can book this direct or go with crystal, first choice or thomas cook. I agree that everyone has a different expericence but as I have already said cannot fault the service they provided.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Good chalets are great - but as pointed out, they do often have pretty small rooms and thin walls!
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Very true. Our chalet carried every sound but as I was last to bed and first up on most occasions it did not bother me 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Certainly agree with pam w, that the travel is not a problem.
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I would agree with that as well. Number 2 had been to Vancouver twice, India and Spain before she turned two.
We took Number 3 to Vancouver when she was 6 months old, and other passengers on the plane commented on how good she was.
She also survived an 8 hour road trip to Edinburgh when she was 9 months old. This was our "test" to see if driving to France was feasible.
I'd also agree with the recommendation for Les Gets. It is very much a "family" resort.
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graeme72, I have a very biased view (!) but having already been mentioned by a couple of people here don't feel too embarrased about putting my oar in. What you are after is completely achievable with us (or someone like us). It'll be a very different ski holiday to those many people experience but there is no reason why it shouldn't be just as fun. From personal experience I'd say a 3 month old is quite a bit more portable than a 18 month old - go for it. If you want to talk through practicalities without a sales patter (promise) feel free to give me (Chris) a shout - follow the links in my signature ... and for what it's worth I think many mumsnetters might be quite sympathetic to your aims!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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check out skibeat or ski esprite for package holidays in plan peisey resort. its a good resort for beginners, and they have childcar...
also, i'm not working most day shifts, so i'll be glad to take the boarder out and give some tips, as i know what it was like to once be a beginner 
peace
j
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No-one has mentioned the issue of one's post-birth ligaments being too soft to ski with a 3-month old baby. I seem to remember being told to keep off skiing for at least 6-months. This is on top of skiing being hard physical excercise particularly for a beginner using new muscles.
Had I gone skiing in the first few months, as an experienced skier, I would have taken it easy and known my limits.graeme72, you say you and your wife are both beginners. In trying to keep up with her ski lessons, she could be causing herself problems to her hips and back.
On the general topic of babies/toddlers and ski holidays, here's my ha'penny worth:
Do you view your holiday as a "sport holiday" or a "family holiday with some skiing thrown in?" If the latter, and you can afford to bring along family/pay for childcare, and are prepared to reduce your available skiing time to spend time with your pre-skiing kids, and put up with the challenges of traveling, and the uncertainties of accommodation and feeding sprogs etc etc, then that is your choice (but still one I wouldn't recommend to a couple on their first ski trip). Some of the posts above show that you can all have a lovely time together on a family ski break with small kids when it's gloomy weather back home.
Me? I'm with the "sport holiday" brigade - I didn't start mine till they were 5 & 7, was allowed child-free breaks before that (only took 2), and then went 5 times with Mark Warner until we started going self-catering. However, as my OH doesn't and will never ski, we've never tried to make it feel like a family holiday. Skiing is what my kids do with me, and footie with their dad. Now we go for the cheapest deal for the best skiing, and Cost Centre No 1 is already looking to do his gap year with Mark Warner!.
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FAQ
