 Poster: A snowHead
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The directors have issued the following statement:
“Due to the significant financial problems with Snowsport GB, the directors have taken the difficult decision to place the organisation into administration with immediate effect.
Administrators from BDO have been appointed and will commence proceedings from today.
This will not have any impact on the 14 British ski and snowboard athletes that will be attending the Winter Olympic Games in Vancouver commencing on February 12.
The British Olympic Association will be handling all arrangements for these athletes and we wish them every success at the Games.”
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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No great surprise. Snowsports GB through the HNGB's, especially Snowsports England, was dominated by weirdos with diagnosable personality disorders. Unfortunately we'll never truly know who is really to blame for all this. But you can bet your that life turf wars and pissing contests had a lot to do with it.
If you look at sports like football and rugby, tossers are weeded out very quickly and told to get lost. But with skiing, where everyone is so middle-class and 'nice' there is too much tolerance shown towards these people. Some of these people really need a good slap.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would no say everyone, particularly Snowsport England were dominated by weirdos
I think have have a very normal personality
Don't think I am middle class either, coming from Yorkshire 
Snowsport England Board Director 2003 - 2008
Snowsport England Chairman 2005 - 2008
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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escmatters, why did BOB fail then? You all had a golden opportunity to do away with the past and have one governing body for the competitive UK snowsports.
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I would agree with you, there was an opportunity, it did not happen.
What if it had, would the demise of SSGB have taken all of the home nation governing bodies down as well?
Maybe some of the people involved were looking to the future even back in 2006-07
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escmatters, the governing bodies are as guilty as anyone for the state of competitive snowsports in the UK. It would have been better if they had gone under.
Subbuteo and tiddlywinks are better organised.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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PJSki, You have been posting "soundbites" about how useless UK snowsports administration is in all the related threads, what would you do differently ?
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rjs
1. Disband the home nations.
2. Ban certain individuals from involvement in competitive snowsport at any level.
3. Reconstitute a UK governing body from what's left.
4. Fine, bankrupt and ban any 'athletes' who haven't repaid all their debts to the governing body by a given date.
5. Form a proper pyramid structure for all disciplines.
6. Remove the requirement for racers to be affiliated with a racing club.
7. Hand responsibility for all coaching to private contractors.
8. Promote the existence of super teams competing at national level who draw their talent from lower levels through a scouting network.
9. Ban individual commercial sponsorship in favour of even sponsorship.
10. Fund scholarships for the most promising youngsters from a commercial sponsorship pool.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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A new governing body would have to develop a fair system that any kid with talent could progress through. At the moment only kids with well orf and pushy parents can get anywhere at all.
All that would take time and any new body should withdrew from international competition of at least 5 years. Those involved at that level can carry on under their own steam.
BTW, why on earth should Shemmy have been given 20k, for what is effectively the development of her professional business? I can't see that she earns so little that she needs a top up.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bode Swiller, I don't understand why someone at that level should get free money. No wonder the money ran out if they were that inept at dishing it out.
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You know it makes sense.
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For sure someone there couldn't do elementary maths but the program funding of an athlete is more complex than "free money". You set out above how you would do it but your team would fold instantly without funds. Then you would only get the offspring of "well orf parents".
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Bode Swiller, it is free money. If the camps she went on did her any good performance wise, she would have recouped through better results.
And my team wouldn't 'fold instantly without funds', because a) the competitors would be more talented because they'd been drawn up through a better, fairer system and b) the national teams would be part funded from a central sponsorship fund.
Anyway, the current system doesn't work. At least my system is modeled on other successful sporting structures, whereas the one you seem to be standing by is based on a good start in life and pushy parents.
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Poster: A snowHead
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what classifies a 'well orf parent'??? .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Scot_Ski, I would hazard a gues that he means anyone with a nanny.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Scot_Ski wrote: |
| what classifies a 'well orf parent'??? . |
It's defined by income, of course, so a household with an income in excess of £60,000 a year could easily afford to put their dahlings through race training with very little sacrifice.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
the one you seem to be standing by is based on a good start in life and pushy parents.
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I haven't stood by any system, just noticed a problem with yours. The "good start in life" thing will never go away.
Scot_Ski, I imagine it's someone well orf enough to fund their kid's education, training and racing without outside help. For some it must be a real struggle so they might not appear or feel well orf.
I don't know if they still do it but years ago the Austrians used to go looking for kids with the right motor skills for ski racing, regardless of background or whether they had skiied before. eg. a kid might have been identified as a really good footballer so give him a test. They ran kids through the hexagonal obstacle test at an early age and took forward those that had the right "DNA" to become a successful racer. The problem with kids from monied backgrounds is that they can make it to a certain level but no further because they just don't have the physical capability. That ideal world though, starting with the right raw materials, would take a decade to come through and cost more than anyone will have an appetite for.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
It's defined by income, of course, so a household with an income in excess of £60,000 a year could easily afford to put their dahlings through race training with very little sacrifice.
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Dream on.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Quote: |
the one you seem to be standing by is based on a good start in life and pushy parents.
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I haven't stood by any system, just noticed a problem with yours. The "good start in life" thing will never go away. |
Clearly it won't when those in charge are prepared to throw 20k where it isn't needed.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Quote: |
It's defined by income, of course, so a household with an income in excess of £60,000 a year could easily afford to put their dahlings through race training with very little sacrifice.
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Dream on. |
Easily done. Just get a loan and be prepared not to get your money back. Also save money by living in a smaller house and driving an older car.
Quite laughable that you seem to thick that 60k isn't enough.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| It's defined by income, of course, so a household with an income in excess of £60,000 a year could easily afford to put their dahlings through race training with very little sacrifice. |
I think you need to re-visit those maths for a start.... An income of £60k would in theory make it easier, but you have to take account of outgoings. Someone with a £60k incoime could potentially have a £250,000 mortgage to pay and the expenses that a property of that size presents. It would be easy to say 'well downsize then' but that's not exactly 'very little sacrifice'.
As someone very close to the race scene, I know first-hand the costs involved in racing. If we wanted to put Will through the full summer race series AND the main winter alpine programme (BARSCs, English and British Championships) you're looking at easiy £10-15k per year. We're not THAT far away from £60k income, but there's not a chance of us funding that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| Easily done. Just get a loan and be prepared not to get your money back. Also save money by living in a smaller house and driving an older car. |
As I said, not exactly 'very little sacrifice'?
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| Jon.L wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| Easily done. Just get a loan and be prepared not to get your money back. Also save money by living in a smaller house and driving an older car. |
As I said, not exactly 'very little sacrifice'? |
They would still have a roof, warmth, daily access to food and clean drinking water. So it would be very little sacrifice. Clearly you have no clue as to what sacrifice truly means.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
a household with an income in excess of £60,000 a year could easily afford to put their dahlings through race training with very little sacrifice.
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A gross underestimate methinks. Perhaps 60k a year after tax, so long as you don't go for private education and only one child. Most people I speak to suggest expenditure of about 12k per annum is needed to get a child into higher competitive ranks.
But, PJSki, let's not knock the rich parents, Without them, SSGB could probably only fund 5-10 of the 50 on the children's and youth teams so your pyramid would have a very sharp top and no base.
Would that it were not so, but most sports are the same. I know tennis nuts spending the same amounts.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| 7. Hand responsibility for all coaching to private contractors. |
Why do you think that this will be an improvement ? In another post you seemed to think that clubs are currently paid vast amounts of money from central funds to provide coaching, they are not.
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| beequin wrote: |
| Quote: |
a household with an income in excess of £60,000 a year could easily afford to put their dahlings through race training with very little sacrifice.
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A gross underestimate methinks. Perhaps 60k a year after tax, so long as you don't go for private education and only one child. Most people I speak to suggest expenditure of about 12k per annum is needed to get a child into higher competitive ranks. |
Still doable on 60k, imo.
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But, PJSki, let's not knock the rich parents, Without them, SSGB could probably only fund 5-10 of the 50 on the children's and youth teams so your pyramid would have a very sharp top and no base.
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Like I said, there would have to be a pause in top level involvement for some years while a new, stronger base is established.
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You know it makes sense.
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And what do you say to Aaron Tipping, Dave Ryding and others in the chain now who have made all the sacrifices?
And what is the bad experience whih has made you so bitter?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rjs wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| 7. Hand responsibility for all coaching to private contractors. |
Why do you think that this will be an improvement ? In another post you seemed to think that clubs are currently paid vast amounts of money from central funds to provide coaching, they are not. |
Where's the money gone then? We know some has gone all the way up to Chemmy. But what about the rest? Coaches haven't been paid, we are told, so it didn't go to them. I SSGB were over staffed, but still leaves a lot of money 'missing'.
But anyway, explain to me about the money in the clubs. Where does it come from and where does it go?
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Poster: A snowHead
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beequin, Let them eat cake? You're right though, £60k household income in the home counties is just above the bread line, never mind ski racing. And very often it's the well-connected wealthy parents who pull the levers to get sponsorship in. It'll be the same old same old in the new structure.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| beequin wrote: |
And what do you say to Aaron Tipping, Dave Ryding and others in the chain now who have made all the sacrifices?
And what is the bad experience whih has made you so bitter? |
1. Tough shite guys.
2. No bitterness or bad experiences at all, just speaking my mind.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| beequin, Let them eat cake? You're right though, £60k household income in the home counties is just above the bread line, never mind ski racing. And very often it's the well-connected wealthy parents who pull the levers to get sponsorship in. It'll be the same old same old in the new structure. |
Rubbish. You have no comprehension of hardship. Breadline, my effing back bottom.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Where's the money gone then?
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Salaries (I think the coaches etc are out of pocket by a month or two), PAYE, premises, travel, accommodation, insurance, training piste fees, lift passes, fuel and a whole heap of other stuff you'll need to think about when you take command. If you've got evidence of funds going "missing" you should call the cops.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| beequin, Let them eat cake? You're right though, £60k household income in the home counties is just above the bread line, never mind ski racing. And very often it's the well-connected wealthy parents who pull the levers to get sponsorship in. It'll be the same old same old in the new structure. |
Rubbish. You have no comprehension of hardship. Breadline, my effing back bottom. |
Thought that would wind you up. Anyway, I'm off for a lavish weekend. Bye.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Quote: |
Where's the money gone then?
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Salaries (I think the coaches etc are out of pocket by a month or two), PAYE, premises, travel, accommodation, insurance, training piste fees, lift passes, fuel and a whole heap of other stuff you'll need to think about when you take command. If you've got evidence of funds going "missing" you should call the cops. |
Only goes to prove what I've always said, in that top level skiing is not viable in this country the way it was being run until just recently.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| Jon.L wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| Easily done. Just get a loan and be prepared not to get your money back. Also save money by living in a smaller house and driving an older car. |
As I said, not exactly 'very little sacrifice'? |
They would still have a roof, warmth, daily access to food and clean drinking water. So it would be very little sacrifice. Clearly you have no clue as to what sacrifice truly means. |
Believe me, I have a very good idea as to what sacrifice means, having had to make them for a while now. It's just that your statement of 'very little sacrifice' seems to be a three-word soundbite that is all to easy to type without realising the true depth of meaning.
Downsizing a house to maybe a lower-class area (and I am by no means a snob) and living on what you seem to think are little more than absolute necessities is a route to take (and I am aware of parents who have done this), but it can hardly be described as 'very little sacrifice' - it is 'major sacrifice'!
We can go around in circles discussing how to put the world to rights. I am completely in agreement that change is absolutely necessary, but it will take more than a list of bullet points to make the change needed.
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| Jon.L wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| Jon.L wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| Easily done. Just get a loan and be prepared not to get your money back. Also save money by living in a smaller house and driving an older car. |
As I said, not exactly 'very little sacrifice'? |
They would still have a roof, warmth, daily access to food and clean drinking water. So it would be very little sacrifice. Clearly you have no clue as to what sacrifice truly means. |
Believe me, I have a very good idea as to what sacrifice means, having had to make them for a while now. It's just that your statement of 'very little sacrifice' seems to be a three-word soundbite that is all to easy to type without realising the true depth of meaning.
Downsizing a house to maybe a lower-class area (and I am by no means a snob) and living on what you seem to think are little more than absolute necessities is a route to take (and I am aware of parents who have done this), but it can hardly be described as 'very little sacrifice' - it is 'major sacrifice'!
We can go around in circles discussing how to put the world to rights. I am completely in agreement that change is absolutely necessary, but it will take more than a list of bullet points to make the change needed. |
Alright then, a 'major sacrifice' for a middle-class family, but no sacrifice at all when compared to reality.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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PJSki,
| Quote: |
| 9. Ban individual commercial sponsorship in favour of even sponsorship. |
From a commercial point of view I think you will just end up significantly reducing your sponsorship income. Companies generally want to be associated with individuals for commercial reasons. Like it not, Chemmy brings a certain appeal due to her looks - and companies will not get that benefit from a 'group' sponsorship. While we may have a national team, Skiing is an individual pursuit.
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| Where's the money gone then? |
I've not seen the accounts, but I sort of doubt there was a massive amount to start with. IIRC Central Government\Sport Council funding for Skiing is nominal and has only recently increased ?
Like it or not, we don't line in Austria where ski racing is the National sport.
Rather I think it's reasonable to compare Skiing to Car or Motorbike Racing. You simply have to be well privately funded or have a 'well healed' friendly sponsor because like bikes and cars, skiing is an expensive undertaking. And like those activities 99% of the upcoming participants will never see a return on their investment.
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Jon.L, totally agree that the cost of having your kid in racing is expensive and they race/train in what we can afford , but the bottom line is that it is a sport which they have lots of fun in and we as parents are happy to fund it. No matter how much money we throw at it our wee ones are not going to be olympians , but all the parents who have kids racing help the sport in the UK to be competitive and as a result a few gems will develop in to world ranked racers. For me its a social thing , my kid is having fun , had a couple of podium finishes and made loads of new friends up and down the country , is learning a skill to a level that can be used for employment in the future if they so wish (how many of us wish we could have a job doing something we really enjoy) .
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FAQ
Has your barnet at any time in recent years resembled that of Glen Plake? Do you look like you've had a green Frisbee embedded longitudinally in your scull?
