Just finished arranging a two weeks trip to Ski Amade of Austria and Dolomites of Italy.
Will set off in a AWD car from Newcastle on 15 Jan 2010 by an overnight ferry.
First day 656 miles to Flachau. Good price for 7 days half board with 6 days Ski Amade pass for 479 Euro per head an in ensuite double room.
Identified following skiing days in Ski Amade (never been there except Bad Gastein)
Hauser Kaibling-Schladming Plannai-Hochwurzen-Reiteralm all linked with 130km piste
Flachau itself reported to have 111km piste but doesn't look that big.
Zauchensee Flachauwinkl + Kleinarl linked area has 59km piste should be good for a day
Wagrain is linked to Alpendorf so another day needed for its 67 km piste. Don't think we would bother with Sankt Johann area which isn't linked.
Dorfgastein, Bad Hofgastein and Bad Gastein are all unlinked so may be another day in this valley to see what has changed
Leaving a spare day for a 2nd visit of the above or may use it to ski the Dachstein Gletscher and try out the skywalk
Each of the above can be covered by about a 30 minutes drive except Bad Gastein Valley which needs an hour time to reach from Flachau.
For the second week we booked an accommodation near Arabba of Sella Ronda in Italy. It is a 150 miles drive as a rest day.
Planned skiing days in Dolomites (Only been Selva side of the Sella Ronda, this time we go for the diametically opposite Arabba)
Finally giving Cortina Ampezzo a try and see what the fuss is all about
The Marmolada Gletscher at 3250m looks an attraction not to be missed
Will spend one day to find where the hell is "Hidden Valley" of Lagazuoi (Google map says 9 miles from accommodation)
Ski Sella Ronda clockwise in one day
And then anticlockwise the other day
Will explore Area #11 known as Civetta which is a self contained facility with 80km piste.
According to Google map and with good road conditions each of the above is within 0.5 hour drive from Pieve di Livinallongo which is the cheapest place I could find. Half board is 50 Euro per head in an ensuite double room but I have to pay my own Dolomiti superski which is 198 Euro per head for 6 days up to 30 Jan.
That is two weeks holiday gone. Just like that.
Return jouney is more painful. Will have to do 545miles to reach Bonn for the overnight stay. That should give a bit of sight seeing in the morning before catching the ferry at Amsterdam the next day. The cost estimate is about £3500 for a couple away for two weeks skiing resorts of own selection. The above DIY scheme work out approximately 479 Euro per week for Ski Amade and 550 Euro for Dolomites. The cost is exclusive of the cost of getting there and the lunch but include accommodation, breakfast, dinner and ski pass. A car is needed to enjoy the freedom of going anywhere. This is possibly the furthermost we will be attempting from UK.
Will report back after the trip is done.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
saikee, sounds good if tiring. Have fun.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
saikee, when passing Altenmarkt or Radstadt, call in and spend a few hours skiing a smashing little hill. Ski Amade is more than big enough for a 2 week trip.
This a trip to sample the areas. Radstadt - Altenmarkt is just next to Flachau but it has 17.3km piste and is not linked to other area. We will have to pass it to ski Schladming and Dachstein etc. I am giving priority to larger areas at the moment but there could be many smaller facilities that are more enjoyable.
I don't know if it is feasible to ski from one end of Reiteralm Bergbahnen, passing Hochwurzen and the Schladming to the extreme end of Hauser Kaibling and back in a day as I have no feel about the size of Ski Amade.
pam w,
The wife and I are taking it easy. Although we will try as many areas as possble but we do not ski much. Late start, long lunch and an early down the mountain are the order of the day.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
saikee, go for it but see how time is when crossing out of Schladming to the excellent Hauser.
saikee, If you start 0n the dot 8.30am in Arabba you could ski the Marmolada, Civetta and the Hidden Valley and part of tha Alta Badia in one day
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
saikee wrote:
I don't know if it is feasible to ski from one end of Reiteralm Bergbahnen, passing Hochwurzen and the Schladming to the extreme end of Hauser Kaibling and back in a day as I have no feel about the size of Ski Amade.
Possible, but pushing it rather.
On my trip to Schladming, on the last day, we took the bus to to the base of Hochwurzen, and starting from there, skied that, Reiteralm and Planai in the one day. That felt like quite a lot, but we could have done a bit more, and we did do the top half of the Reiteralm three times altogether. I believe the old very slow links between Hochwurzen and Planai have been replaced by faster ones now as well.
After all it is free
After all it is free
saikee, I would say one day is more than enough for Flachau itself. I have no idea how they come up with those 111km.
If you are based in Flachau, do not drive to the Zauchensee village, it is much easier drive to Flachauwinkl and from there take the gondola to Zauchensee. They are building new chair and gondola there for the next winter.
Schladming area seems too big for one day, specially that hills on opposite sides: Hauser Kaibling and Reiteralm get the best reviews.
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saikee, don't know the dolomites but there are plenty here that do. As for Amade trip, great dilemma to have too many places to choose from.
I agree with Tom W on Flachau. A day will be more than enough here. Flachau can get quite busy but you have picked a great time to go to avoid peak season and get good prices. Schladming is great with some fantastic skiing.
Alpendorf/Wagrain is another great day and you are right not to bother with St Johann (very limited skiing and very low altitude even for austrian standards. It does have a decent toboggan run if you fancy something different, as does Flachau).
For Gastein area, don't rule out Sport Gastein which has some high altitude skiing. If you are early off the mountain and wanting to take it easy, don't forget the local spas.
Do think quality rather than quantity - there is too much on offer here.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
riverman,
Think I need to park the car three times to cover Marmolada, Civetta and the Hidden Valley. I would be quite happy to spend a day leisurely at each place. It is a day's job just to try out Corvara area which is next to the Hidden Valley.
alex_heney,
I have exactly the same game plan for Schladming by starting at a place at the middle like Hochwurzen. That way I could ski to say the right hand side of Reiteralm and hopefully return back to Hochwurzen for lunch. After lunch I could try to ski to the opposite side of Hauser but could cut short at any time to return if it doesn't look I could make it to the far end.
It is a long stretch so I have doubt and post the question to seek experience from the SH.
Tom W,
The ski maps of Ski Amade aren't very helpful. Wagrain ski area seems to be divided between two unlinked sides of the valley. It looks the left hand side is linked with Flachau while the right hand side can be skied to Alpendorf, thus my plan of skiing the left hand side with Flachau and the right hand side with Alpendorf.
The Flachau ski map isn't very clear if one can ski from Flachau to area defined for Flachauwinkl-Kleinarl. In any case I would be contented if I could explore Zauchensee/Flachau/Kleinarl in a day but the only doubt I have is not sure of how close the link between the two side of the valley at the motorway A10. I believe that is where the two sides of the valley join at Flachauwinkl.
I have chosen an accommodation between Flachau and Flachauwinkl. I would have to be an idiot to drive a 10.5m loop to Zauchensee if I could access the same skiing area by nipping 3 miles down to Flachauwinkl, unless the former has no queue whereas the latter can take hours to get into the first chairlift. Then again I do not expect queuing an issue for the places I am going.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
saikee, You would only need to park the car once at Arabba in fact but as you say its best to take each qrea at a leisurely pace. As the Marmalada run and the hidden valley only take about a hour each it may be worth combining the Marmalada with a ski in Arabba area and the hidden valley with the Corvara area.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
riverman,
Civetta, the #12 of Dolomiti super ski, can only be reached from a base station either at Alleghe or Pescul according to the 2006 map I got. The nearest Marmolada's chairlift station is at Malga Ciapela some 8.4miles from Alleghe. I don't see how I could ski to there and back without a car, unless #12 area has been linked to #6 area Arabba since 2006.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
The ski maps of Ski Amade aren't very helpful. Wagrain ski area seems to be divided between two unlinked sides of the valley. It looks the left hand side is linked with Flachau while the right hand side can be skied to Alpendorf, thus my plan of skiing the left hand side with Flachau and the right hand side with Alpendorf.
A good plan.
Quote:
The Flachau ski map isn't very clear if one can ski from Flachau to area defined for Flachauwinkl-Kleinarl. In any case I would be contented if I could explore Zauchensee/Flachau/Kleinarl in a day but the only doubt I have is not sure of how close the link between the two side of the valley at the motorway A10. I believe that is where the two sides of the valley join at Flachauwinkl.
Flachau and Flachauwinkle or not linked by skiing . The crossing at Falchauwinkle is by a Noddy train and takes 3-4 mins.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
saikee, You catch a ski bus from Malga Ciapela or ski down to Sottoguda where you can also catch the ski bus. Last year we did this skied the Civetta region caught another ski bus from Pesul up to Fedare which links you into the Cinque Torri area from which you can now ski to the Lagazuio cable car which gives you access to the hidden valley from the bottom of which you get towed out by horses to Armentarola from where you can ski back yo Arabba . A great day out
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
saikee, Flachau doesn't link to the Flachauwinkel area, so you'll need to drive or take a bus from Flachau to Flachauwinkel to access the other area. Flachau does link to part of the Wagrain valley, but as you've already worked out, not to the other half. Queues at Flachau, Flachauwinkel and Zauchensee are very similar - non-existent.
For a taster visit, and from your base between Flachau and Flachauwinkel, I'd recommend one day doing FW to Zauchensee, around Zauchensee, and then maybe back via FW to Kleinarl and back if you are keen and prepared to work at it. Then a second day doing Flachau and the nearer half of Wagrain, and a third day to cover the rest of Wagrain down to Alpendorf and back, so your plan looks good.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
saikee, You are right about the left run on Wagrain map, it is the same hill so it feels like the part of Flachau. The shuttle bus to the other side is on the bottom of this run and will quickly get you to the other side.
You can't ski from Flachau to Flachauwinkl. Anyway it will be too much to explore Zauchensee/Flachau/Kleinarl in one day. But possible Zauchensee/Flachauwinkl/Kleinarl.
In Flachauwinkl there is a rather strange tractor type vehicle to get people between Zauchensee side and Flachauwinkl/Kleinar side.
It only takes a couple of minutes. Quick but rather uncomfortable.
I don't know if it is feasible to ski from one end of Reiteralm Bergbahnen, passing Hochwurzen and the Schladming to the extreme end of Hauser Kaibling and back in a day as I have no feel about the size of Ski Amade
I have skied from the Reiteralm to the Hauser Kaibling and back in a day, so it is possible but with not a lot of time for hanging around. Mind you, we were staying in St. Johann im Pongau/Alpendorf, so we had to drive quite a way before we got started.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
espri,Tom W, ousekjarr, Frosty the Snowman, riverman,
saikee, If you start 0n the dot 8.30am in Arabba you could ski the Marmolada, Civetta and the Hidden Valley and part of tha Alta Badia in one day
Went last year and for me the hidden valley can stay hidden. Blink and you miss it !
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
MFC, It is amazing how experiences differ. Yes it can be a faff about to get to, but I thought the hidden valley was quite magical. My one regret being the stop at the resto at the top when the one half way down would have been a better bet.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
MFC, You must blink quite slowly as i would guess the run down the hidden valley must be about 8 kilometres
After all it is free
After all it is free
saikee,
Quote:
In any case I would be contented if I could explore Zauchensee/Flachau/Kleinarl in a day
I don't htink you would be that contented.... I think you will be cross with yourself as you would not have had time to ski all the runs and enjoy the area!
Zauchensee is large enough for much more than one day.
Flachauwinkl/Kleinarl certainly a whole days skiing here. (especially if you take a little time out to relax and watch the nutters on the half pipe and in the 2 parks)
Flachau/Wagrain (but only the side linked to Flachau and the Mozart lift) Guess what...there is a whole days skiing here too! Wagrain side is often quieter if you want to zoom summit to valley.
I regularly ski the reiteralm to Hauser Kaibling route. You do need to know the lift system a little to ensure that you can get there and back in one day BUT there are buses up to about 16:30 from the bottom of Hauser Kaiblin, Schaldming and Hochwurzen/Pichl that can take you all the way back to Reiteralm. The 2 man chair (Reiteralm 1) is one of the oldest around that area and is very, very slow so I would park at the Gondola in Riteralm and re-locate or just see how far I ge from there and then use the bus.
But you will only be skiing a route that links the mountains. There is a days skiing at all of these areas as individual places!
Warain/Alpendorf - easy one day + here.
I know you will have a blast out here and have a feeling that your itinerary will have soon gone astray! Good to have plans though
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saikee, I love these type of road trips but we are wary of crashing too much in.
We will do the same in SW Valais but over the two weeks will have no more than 3 basses, maybe two, and just use the car more...
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saikee, One thing it may be worth thinking about is if the snow conditions in the lower resorts are not so good the somewhat more expensive Salzburger ( I think) ski pass also covers Obertuaern which is also fairly close to Flachau and well worth a look at.
The bus/wheeled train transfers from Flachau to Wagrain are easy.
Dolomites have been on my bucket list for a long time.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
T Bar,
I have kept out of Ski Amade until now because there were better choices before. I know Ski Amade is on the low side but if everything is appalling I believe Dachstein Gletscher, for being a glacier, should have some snow in late Jan. It is a big area and I would not forget myself for not visiting it at least once.
JT,
We just sampling the resorts. Not good skiers ourselves but we enjoy seeing everything for ourselves. Would be please to meet up other SH around the area.
lucky33,
We chose Ski Amade because it is convenient for us to nip down to Arabba from there. Dolomites is too big and we need to go there a few times to appreciate it. For this one together with our last trip we would be lucky to cover 7 out of the 12 areas.
I shall read with interest the your links.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Just can give you 2 hints... I Like the route;)
when moving from austria to araba.... well I kinda thought you were somewhere else... so never mind what I am going to say. There is a funny small ski area on the brennerpass which has 2 hour passes which is a nice break from driving. Inline with this comment there might be a dolimiti superski alta pusteria which you pass, you could take a small ski break there instead. Pricewise might be interesting since you can just get a day extra superski pass.
And the one you might find interesting. We went from canazei to the hidden valley had a two hour que, or at least felt like it, on the lift there took the nice piste down for another less long wait and then did the hidden valley, continued to alta badia and then went back to canazei but gat a bit lost to get to araba. This on my board with 2 mediocre snowboarders who at the end of the day were doubting to either kill me or kiss me, they really enjoyed the trip but I pushed them to hard in the end to catch the lift in araba which closes early.
Now you might say you will never make it but I think it is quite a nice trip from araba especially on ski's since there are some spots were even I have to walk with the snowboard and as indicated above we made even some detours and were unlucky with the lift.
Enjoy the view at the start of the hidden valley but please as suggested don't have lunch there. Wait till you at least seen the place halfway.
p.s. You should be able to find in any of the connected places also for €50 phpn so do yourself a favour and get a place in araba.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Sounds like a great trip if not very tiring.
Re Dolomites: As per Mafketel would recommend having a little ski around Cinque Torres (area just by the Lagazuoi lift) which is small but perfectly formed before taking the Lagazuoi lift so as to avoid the morning/midday lift queues, and as per other folks stop at the restaurants half way down the hidden valley rather than at the top (although a coffee enjoying the views is very nice). As a guide I left the top of Lagazuoi (on a quiet day) at approx 2PM and got back to Selva by 4PM (no stops) so getting back to Arraba should take less time.
Re Amade: I would recommend that rather travel all the way to the Gastein valley you short-cut to Grossartal and then you can ski over the mountain to Dorfgastein and back which is a nice day's skiiing. If you haven't been there before you will be pleasantly surprised as it is rather overlooked in favour of Badhofgastein, Badgastein & Sportgastein. You've certainly chosen the best base resort to locate yourself in. I've always had in mind to buy a Salzbugerland all area pass and base myself in Flacau for the season just because it is so central and close to the tauern autobahn.
All the best with your trip, I'm certainly very envious.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
sunny46,
Welcome to Snowheads.
I am open minded with traveling to Bad Gastein Valley any your idea of going via the back door from Grossaarl/GroBarl and ski to Dogfgastein does sound a relax way to have a bit of the valley without driving the long distance.
Both Ski Amade and the Sella Ronda/Dolomitis are much bigger than anyone to ski in several weeks so I will not stretch myself out. I have always want to try the Salzburg Ski Amade but because it is generally low in altitude so I gave priority to Arlberg (St Anton), Silvetta (Ischgl/Samnaun), Zillertal (Mayrhofen/Hintertux) before.
Thanks you and Mafketel alerting me the queue in Hidden Valley as I have assumed the place would be deserted (thinking it is hidden and not obvious )
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
saikee,
Quote:
I have kept out of Ski Amade until now because there were better choices before. I know Ski Amade is on the low side but if everything is appalling I believe Dachstein Gletscher, for being a glacier, should have some snow in late Jan. It is a big area and I would not forget myself for not visiting it at least once.
My point about the salzburger pass is that it includes the Ski Amade resorts as well as Obertauern. If you are there in reasonable conditions it obviously is unnecessary with everything Amade pass offers, but if it is a particulalry poor snow year it gives another high option and Obertauern is readily accessible from where you are staying.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
T Bar,
Thanks for the tip and repeated reminder.
Yes Obertauern is 34 km from Flachau and has 100km piste so with an altitude 1724 to 2526m it should be my first line of defence against poor snow condition.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Saikee Massed snowHeads on the S5BB at Campitello in 2009 -did the Cinque Torri area (up the road from Laguzoi) in the morning - followed by the Hidden Valley then lunch - followed by Corvara (and saw enough of it not to feel the need to go back) in the afternoon - nice having a coach do the bits in between...
saikee, You catch a ski bus from Malga Ciapela or ski down to Sottoguda where you can also catch the ski bus. Last year we did this skied the Civetta region caught another ski bus from Pesul up to Fedare which links you into the Cinque Torri area from which you can now ski to the Lagazuio cable car which gives you access to the hidden valley from the bottom of which you get towed out by horses to Armentarola from where you can ski back yo Arabba . A great day out
The route is known as the 'Skitour Grande Guerra', named after the WWI front-line where the Italian Alpini faced the Austrian Kaiserjager troops:
Looks like a long day out, 31km of skiing, 82km total including the lifts and ski-bus links, but I'd love to try it next time I'm in the area.
BTW, amazing sounding trip, I'm jealous, I would like to try the SkiAmade area and I'm always up for a return to the Dolomites, plenty of unexplored terrain, the Civetta and Cortina ski areas look really amazing from photos I've seen, have a good one Saikee
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
saikee, what route are you taking from Flachau to Pieve?
I once did Zell am See to Tuscany in September via the Felbertauern Tunnel and Cortina, was a good route but did start sleeting at altitude on the Tunnel approach road, thankfully quite a bit of it is galleried.
Looking at the map, you've also got the choice of the Tauern/Katschberg route as you're starting a bit further east than I did.
I've only done the Cinque Torri/Averau sector, there's plenty more to do.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
luigi,
Hey I am really glad that you have asked my route as I can do with some local knowledge.
My current thought is when leaving Flachau I would drive down A10, towards the south to Italy, pass Katschberg, turn right at Lieserbucke into Road No. 100, follow the same road and pass Lienz, enter Italy after passing Ambach. I shall turn left at Diabbo for SS51 hopefully passing Corinta Ampezzo before arriving at Livinallongo where my accommodation has been booked.
Your other suggestion seems to be driving through Bad Gastein Valley and use the tunnel there, come out No 105, change into No. 106 until I join No. 100 at Altenmarkt, then fit in with what is left in the above route as above.
What I need to know is what the condition is like on either route. From the SH early advices the routes are open in winter but condition can change quickly rendering some areas impassable may be for a short duration if the weather is really bad.
I have to say the route is not one I feel comfortable as this is the furthermost I venture into Italian Dolomities in winter. The area does look rather remote and so snow clearing may not be rigorous but I do not have experience to tell. I am coming with a Subaru Outback with a set of snow chains. The tyres are stock all-season tyres with possibly 5000 to 6000 miles clocked by the time I embark the journey. Apart from testing my skiing it will be also testing time for my winter driving, planning as well as for the car's capability. I will have a Sat Nav and maps too.
I selected Livinallongo because it is easier to get to the Hidden Valley, Civetta and Cortina Ampezzo, all of which I have not been before. I have tried Sella Ronda before by staying at Santa Cristina so this time I am staying near Sella Ronda at the corner opposite to Santa Cristina, hoping to see more of Dolomities.
Thanks for the information so far. It does relieve some of my anxieties. This corner of Dolomites is probably too far for the UK skiers but I do want to experience it and believe I am reasonably prepared.. I do derive a lot of satisfaction of planning the holiday and executing it.
By the way the photos are stunning! The best part of it is very few were competing space on the piste which is similar to my experience with Dolomities. Long may it continue to remain undiscovered by the UK TO.
After all it is free
After all it is free
saikee, I can't offer local advice as I'm also UK-based, but the Katschberg route looks sensible for you, it's a main artery that will be cleared quickly after snowfall.
Your route then follows the lower valleys into Italy, the highest part is from Cortina to Pieve (ss48), it's obviously going to depend on whether you hit bad weather and again this route is cleared quickly as it's the Strada delle Dolomiti (a main artery) and your Subaru sounds like it will get through anything choppy.
I travelled the ss48 this January in a taxi from Arabba up to the pass head at Falzarego when it was clear and dry, it's well engineered but still winds about with a few hairpins as you reach the top.
We also passed through Pieve along that route, it's a pretty setting, a tall church spire and huddle of old buildings perched on the side of a steep valley, it is the main settlement of the valley but a little eclipsed by Arabba which gets more visitors because it's near the skiing.
Hope this helps.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Expect snow on the small italian passes even if they are open. Last 2 years this was the case and I have seen some cars not making it to the top, presumably on normal tires without snowchains. These were not where you are driving but visible from the sella ronda chairlifts.
Will be in the area from the 27th december until jan 9 and took my own advice and bought some snowtires for the "new" car.
Since we will be in La Villa I am thinking about a car trip to cortina for a day there.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I have a Subaru with 6000 miles on the stock tyres. The tyres are not worn enough to warrant replacement but I do carry a set of snow chains.
Subaru and Italian roads around Cortina Ampezzo from the Austria are new to me. I was a bit disappointed when I drove my Subaru Outback off my drive on snow and it turned 180 degree. Other than that it seems to hold the road well.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
