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Public outrage saves pigs from death in avalanche experiment

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Scientists have abandoned an experiment to study the effects of being caught in an avalanche, in which pigs were buried alive in snow and left to die after protests from animal lovers. The researchers in the Austrian Alps chose pigs because of their biological similarity to humans. The animals were buried (either completely or up to their necks), and then the time they took to die was recorded.

...Read more: http://www.austriantimes.at/news/General_News/2010-01-17/19721/Avalanche_experiment_pigs_are_saved
and http://www.austriantimes.at/news/General_News/2010-01-14/19647/Fury_as_live_pigs_buried_in_%27experiment%27


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 19-01-10 10:13; edited 1 time in total
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Quote:

biological similarity to humans
Most skiers are more like sheep though. Pigs are better at digging and using electronic devices so not a fair experiment.
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LOL, I wonder how many of these protesters tooked into a bacon and sasusge breakfast?
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The swines.

The latest news is that the 19 rescued pigs (Snowhogs?) will soon be Tiroler Speck (Bacon).
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HA, funny stuff. Just turn them into bacon after. No Problems!!
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Was this part of Austria's strategy to control swine flu outbreaks?

Twisted Evil
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I wonder what they taste like ? Avalanche-harvested porker ? Could give it novelty value.

This is the world's most expensive ham :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8464222.stm

I never understand Serrano ham. Had two different lots in a tapas bar in Kensington. One lot was twice the price and recommended. I could not tell the difference. I am not that keen on Parma ham either.
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I like Serrano and Iberico ham, not sure I could tell the difference from one to another though.
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The abuse of animals - to the extent of causing distress, pain or even death - in the cause of commercial/scientific research - should be outlawed in all advanced countries, in my view. Pigs are thought to be highly intelligent animals, and it's a great shame to hear of them being treated in this grotesque way.

I listened - with horror - to a (white) colleague yesterday describing how he went to a voodoo ceremony in Benin recently, where a cat and dog were sacrificed for him in his presence. He talked about it with passion and clear cultural affinity/belief. Voodoo is a religion recognised by the state in that country. I daresay that it's illegal in Austria (one assumes that it's illegal in the UK).

It's nauseating to know of westerners abusing animals for whatever cause. The description of that Austrian experimentation comes over as more criminal than voodoo (which is probably based on genuine belief).

The only thing to learn about avalanches is to keep the hell out of them.
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If we can kill em to eat em I can't see whats wrong in killing em to save lives from the data they provide. Sound more like an Apres topic though.
Serrano and Iberico are both great hams.
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T Bar, so long as research is well conceived, agreed

Christmas before last in Barcelona, I had the honour of slicing jamon serrano off the bone for the family each day. Much of it never saw the serving plate Toofy Grin I can't afford pata negra, only tapa negra wink
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Ernst Goldsmith wrote:
Voodoo is a religion recognised by the state in that country. I daresay that it's illegal in Austria (one assumes that it's illegal in the UK).

It's nauseating to know of westerners abusing animals for whatever cause. The description of that Austrian experimentation comes over as more criminal than voodoo (which is probably based on genuine belief).


Not sure about the legal situation re voodoo in Austria/UK. Aleister Crowley got away with a lot of similar stuff and worse. Probably legal to stick pins in a doll though. Health and safety might be a problem with animal sacrifices but you can possibly trump that by claiming your religious rights are being infringed.

I have no problem with genuine animal testing. I do not see that as abuse. I would also be happier with cat/dog sacrifices in Benin than say the child sacrifices in Uganda or using albino body parts for witchcraft elsewhere in East Africa.
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T Bar wrote:
If we can kill em to eat em I can't see whats wrong in killing em to save lives from the data they provide.


As I say, the best thing is to avoid avalanches at all costs. You could have a breathing device tested on a dying pig, but even if you don't die of suffocation your limbs could be torn apart by the tumbling snow. The pain of that experience could be unspeakable.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
For a change I agree with Ernst Goldsmith, it is not about killing them (I have personally killed a number of animals when hunting in Africa); however, any cruel treatment is morally wrong - with very few, if any, exceptions. Whether it is a Western country, China or a third world country where primitive beliefs (such as voodoo in Africa, or belief in certain sexual gains from eating the flesh of animals that have sufferred e.g. some in Middle/Far East) are sanctioned (or a blind eye is turned to abuse), is completely irrelevant.

you may want to search for "animal abuse" "china" and "fur" on youtube. be warned though - NOT suitable for sensitive people.

There is a reason why civilised countries have laws against animal abuse.

right, I'm getting of my soapbox.
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Its cruel to that to any higher function being, and the value of the knowledge derived from the experiments highly questionable. Whether its cost/benefit in terms of cruelty, pain & distress inflicted on the poor animal versus returns in terms of learning much more about how avalanches kill People justifies this kind of thing is highly suspect IMHO.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Researchers in the Austrian Alps wanted to study the effects of being caught in an avalanche
They could read many of the books on the subject to find this out.


Pigs are great at sniffing out and digging for truffels but have little feet so would sink in the snow they would probably get cold too.
So if scientists could engineer a kind of woolly pig with big feet that could be used to sniff and dig out burried people that would be real progress.
And if it could be small enough to go in a backpack so much the better.
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Quote:

As I say, the best thing is to avoid avalanches at all costs. You could have a breathing device tested on a dying pig, but even if you don't die of suffocation your limbs could be torn apart by the tumbling snow. The pain of that experience could be unspeakable.


Avoidance of avalanches is clearly numero uno priority.

There were several rescuers killed in an avalanche in Switzerland recently. If the death of a few pigs had enabled a technology to be developed that saved their lives, it is a better use of porcine life than dishing out breafast bacon to the already overfed in my opinion.
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RPF wrote:
Researchers in the Austrian Alps wanted to study the effects of being caught in an avalanche
They could read many of the books on the subject to find this out.


Pigs are great at sniffing out and digging for truffels but have little feet so would sink in the snow they would probably get cold too.
So if scientists could engineer a kind of woolly pig with big feet that could be used to sniff and dig out burried people that would be real progress.
And if it could be small enough to go in a backpack so much the better.


No need, God gave us the Rat for exactly this type of endeavour Little Angel

The thought of all these well heeled back country types, hoarding a chocolate robbing rat in their backpack seems unlikely to me, tho maybe I'm wrong!?

p.s. mind you, you could use commission driven bankers instead I suppose Laughing Laughing

p.p.s. now,now no tasteless jokes about Austrians and experiments with rats please Laughing Laughing Laughing
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As far as animal cruelty goes, anything other than fast and painless death is consider "cruel". A lot of butcher and slaughtering house "pride" themselves to killing our meat without paining the animal before their death. That sells more meat, I suppose.

But as for not causing such pain and suffering, almost all animal experiment cause some form of suffering. So personally, I don't buy into such claims. Whether they're buried outright or dye of slow and cancereous death, it's a suffering we willingly impose on animals. Heck, majority of such animals are raised specifically to be sacrefied in these kind of experiments. Cruel maybe. But the next time you got ANY pills or injection, just think about the poor animals that were "abused" before these drugs were allowed in the market.

Alternatively, stick to drugs that has NOT passed such experiments instead for a clearer conciens.
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The worst thing ever saw was US army research into treating battlefield injuries involving burns. To research and practice medical techniques they strap pigs to the floor and then use the lances that roadworkers use to burn the white lines off the road to inflict massive third degree burns to the pigs. The squealing goes through you.
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oh ffs, they are pigs. pigs!!! we put them on sandwiches and make shoes from them.

If a few pigs die and invaluable scientific data that is useful in the prevention of human deaths is recorded then so be it. We must respect the judgement of the scientist. I doubt that any animal trials are being carried out purely because the scientists carrying them out are cruel and doing so just for the sheer enjoyment of torturing animals.
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Scarpa, I know two guys who are happy that research was carried out.
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Latest breaking news is that the Pigs will live. Every cloud has a silver linning, someone has saved their bacon so to speak. If they hadn't of been up for the avalanche test the pigs would probably have been on a bacon butty by now.

The researchers have now decided to use something unlikely to cause public outrage, something unlikely to warm the hearts of the Austrians. Testing will soon recommence as at this point in the ski season it shouldn't take too long to find 29 Dutchmen. Wink
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Dwarf Vader, Yeah... very good to practice medical techniques but taking a powerful blowlamp to an unanethetised animal for extended periods is pushing my personal boundaries regarding pain vs gain.

Makes lovely crackling though Laughing
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The latest (includes Sölden bomb threat and political intervention)

http://www.austriantimes.at/news/General_News/2010-01-21/19869/Bank_bomb_threat_over_avalanche_pig_experiment
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Another vote for Ernst Goldsmith on this issue. A pointless and cruel experiment.
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I used to be involved (indirectly, but involved none-the-less) with "pre-clinical testing" using porcine models to test cardiology products (industry speak for animal testing rolling eyes ). I have no problemo with that. Also, I grew up on pig's trotters (and knuckles!), yum yum Toofy Grin

I would however not like to see the kind of activity mentioned above, for the simple reason that possibly all that would be achieved is that it may cause horde's more hooray eejits to travel in high risk avalanche terrain on the basis of some rather dubious trial that developed some rather more dubious piece of fancy kit (whilst maintaining zero mountaincraft or knowledge for travelling on the hill). All at the unnecessary expense of pinky, perky and the lads.
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This is disgusting Evil or Very Mad they should bury themselves and see how they like it !
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 You know it makes sense.
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I can't see this "research" getting through an ethics committee at a UK university. However, from the country that gave us the greatest dictator of the 20th century.....
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Mmmmm...

Piiig!!!
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 Poster: A snowHead
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altis, It takes six pigs with dermatitis to make every bag of pork scratchings Laughing
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beeorchid, Suprised they didn't plan to keep one in a cellar for 20 years Laughing
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I was quoting from Homer.









(Homer Simpson)
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Related news article .....

"Live pigs blasted in terror attack experiments"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6999916.ece
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DB wrote:
Related news article .....

"Live pigs blasted in terror attack experiments"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6999916.ece


that's not news, it's been going on since we used mustard gas on soldiers before WW1

Quote:
Scientists at the British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection ...........
A spokesman said: “We understand the need to deal with the human tragedy, of which sadly there are too many cases. However, we do not believe that mutilating pigs in these horrific experiments is the answer.”
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It's news to me.


Quote:

news [ nooz ]

noun

Definition:

1. recent information: information about recent events or developments
I phoned the hospital, and the news is good.


2. current events: information about current events printed in newspapers or broadcast by the media
She has been in the news a lot lately.


3. program: a radio or television broadcast presenting the important events or developments that have taken place
I heard about it on the news.


4. somebody or something interesting: somebody or something considered as being of interest to people in general


5. something previously unknown: something previously unknown to somebody that he or she is surprised to hear about
Their divorce was news to me.



http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?lextype=3&search=news
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It's news to me, too. And I hope these experiments are halted immediately.
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beeorchid, exactly

very significant progress over the last few decades.
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If they must use pigs in the experiments, they should only use police that have been found guilty of corruption or other crimes.
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And there's more bad news about our little porcine friends....

MoD defends use of pigs in explosive tests in Wiltshire
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has defended its use of more than 100 pigs in explosive tests in Wiltshire.

Some 119 pigs were used in the research at the Government's military research laboratory Porton Down, near Salisbury, between 2006 and 2009.

The tests "saved many lives" in Iraq and Afghanistan due to improvements in post-traumatic techniques, junior defence minister Quentin Davies said.

He said 25 pigs were used in 2006, 19 in 2007, 40 in 2008, and 35 in 2009.

'Body trauma'

In a written reply to Stroud Labour MP David Drew, Mr Davies said the research had followed up on problems with "prolonged pre-hospital resuscitation following blast injury".

He added: "This research has led to significant advances in post-traumatic techniques, such as reducing blood loss from major trauma, and has saved many lives in the theatres of Iraq and Afghanistan.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8507616.stm
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