 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've commented on this so many times that I'm becoming even more boring than I usually am. In my view, Intrawest isn't really a winter sports business at all - it's a real-estate business that uses the attractions of skiing to enhance returns on its real estate business. Mountain activities consume a huge proportion of the group's capital and return very little profit.
Much as I like skiing in North America, I'm unconvinced that many ski resort over there have a sustainable business model. If you take away the real-estate, few resorts could justify the level of investment given to the mountain facilities.
Your vacations might not be in jeopardy for 2010. But I wouldn't be surprised if a new owner took a long, hard look at the paltry financial returns generated by mountain operations and responded with a very heavy axe. It's not a certainty that all of Intrawest's resorts will survive.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Good riddance to Intrawest and all the other ski property bubble-blowers. Skiing needs to get back to its roots.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The timing of all this ... Intrawest will now be auctioned off - including Whistler, main skiing venue of the 2010 Winter Olympics ... is exquisite.
The auction will take place in the middle of the Olympics - on 19 February.
This report from canada.com
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ernst Goldsmith, Nice article in Powder magazine - I think the issue before last - on "How the recession has given us our sport back".
You and they have a good point.
In the resort I like the most - JH - the proliferation of Realtors, Condos, Interior Decorators shops - has seemed to the detriment of the soul of the town and the hill.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Intrawest own Arc1950 as well, don't they?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm not sure that Intrawest necessarily had a bad business model (although I'm happy to be corrected on this) - more that this is a direct consequence of a leveraged buyout in an overheadted credit market.
"Fortress bought Intrawest for $3.1-billion in 2006, adding $1.5-billion of new debt to finance the deal."
The problem is now that Fortress can't service their debt.
Sound familiar? - I bet any Manchester United or Liverpool FC fan could point you at a similar story.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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HChalkley, oh lordy no - a Pierre et Vacance premium brand .... what's the bet that they manage to shoehorn double the number of people into each apartment, call them "cozy" and charge about 4 times as much as the current prices ... not impressed ...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The 1950 website still has an intrawest contact address. I remember reading that sale fell through.
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shoehorn double the number of people into each apartment
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it's up to the people who rent the apartments to decide how many people to shoehorn in.
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You know it makes sense.
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I wont shed a tear for Fortress Investment Group. These financial manipulators only interest in skiing was to rip money out of the ski industry. They bought Interwest with money they borrowed and expected skiers to cough up for their interest repayments.
Most skiers go to ski resorts to ski, not to sleep in beds. Beds that can be bought for the price of few nights accommodation. There are far too many leeches building expensive multistar hotels, apartments and condos. They then expect skiers to make them into millionaires. I would rather swap the money I pay for my accommodation with the money I pay for my lift pass.
Sadly in Australia our greedy socialist state governments rip off the small ski industry through exhorbitant land leases that can only be funded by more and more luxurious accommodation. These greedy socialist snot are forcing out the cheaper skier accommodation.
Australian skiing is the same quality as Scotland and yet the cost of the airfare and a couple of months in the Alps can be less than the same time spent in the Australian snow.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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abominable, you Aussies are so mealy-mouthed!
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Poster: A snowHead
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andytb, Sale fell through in Oct '08, but a new proposal went ahead in Oct '09. The Flaine development was part of the package. Fortress were not the only investor in ITW-Europe - 20% belonged to another UK PE outfit whose name escapes me for the moment.
Intrawest Europe still owned an interest in EdenArc (a proposal for building in Arc1800) but it looks as if the constructor co. of 1950 (SoBarTat) and various other ex-ITW-E employees have formed a consortium to develop that. I am not aware of the relationship and if ITW-E have sold it on.
It also has, afaik, still retained its land in Bordeaux. But of course, Fortress may be expecting that to go in the 'great land grab of February'.
As a lessee now to P&V in 1950, I am reasonably happy with their management style and service provision: - but will pass final judgement when we see what the RoI and trends are compared to other resorts and years!
And if my bedroom ends up with double bunk beds in it, there will be tears...
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