Out of interest what size skis / width do slalom skiers use?
I see some people doing incredibly fast carving turns on some red/black steeps, which is almost impossible in some Gladiator 183/92 skis despite the fact that they hold extremely well.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Slalom skis suprisingly lol. Depends a bit on your height/weight, but for many people probably around 165cm long, 65ishmm wide underfoot, big sidecut.
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So, there is actually a type of ski called slalom ski?
...or is it simply just any carver with thin underfoot and big sidecut.
Just wondering how my Gladiators are gonna hold up on the steeper sections
Gladiators will be fine on the steeps, as long as your skiing is also up to it.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Some "cheater" SL skis would be:
Rossi R9S WC Oversize
Dynastar Omeglass
Atomic Race TI pb SL
Atomix D2 Race SL
Fischer WC RC4 SC
Blizzard SLR IQ Mag.
Nordica Doberman Pro SL
Völkl Racetiger SL
Salomon Equipe 3V Race
Head WC iSL
All of those (and several others) are mere-mortal versions of the World Cup SL skis. They're short length (~165cm), short turn (~13m) carvers but usually with a bit more waist than the real deal, and less likely to kick your butt if you're not on your game 100% of the time. Real race SL's are a hoot to ski, but they spank hard if you get sloppy on them.
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Look at slalom racing skis, they all have a radius of 12/13m which is smaller than post 'normal' piste skis and much tigher than fatter skis meant for variable snow. Also, as mentioned before, the ones you seen in the shop are consumer racing skis and not the full on FIS skis and more forgiving. They are also stiff and narrow.
I love my atomic SL skis, they are so agile and quick it's so nice to switch to them after skiing wider, longer skis - they hold on just about anything too. To get the most out of skis like this you do need to be able to do good carve turns and pressure them properly, the harder you can ski them and better your technique they better they respond - if you ski about doing skidded turns you won't see anything of the skis peformance.
It's also worth noting that quick pure carved turns on the steep sections of reds and blacks normally requires a pivoted entry into the turn before hooking the skis up - you can see the guy on the WC do this.
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After all it is free
narc wrote:
It's also worth noting that quick pure carved turns on the steep sections of reds and blacks normally requires a pivoted entry into the turn before hooking the skis up - you can see the guy on the WC do this.
That is more down to how the gates are placed and the confidence of the skier than the skis themselves, they can carve arc to arc just fine on steep slopes.
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clarky999 wrote:
Yep you get slalom skis for slalom races...
Gladiators will be fine on the steeps, as long as your skiing is also up to it.
I find the Gladiators quite a light ski, hence quick ability to turn and they hold very well.
However, the turning arc is quite large hence it's difficult to carve turns quickly.
?
Quote:
Look at slalom racing skis, they all have a radius of 12/13m which is smaller than post 'normal' piste skis and much tigher than fatter skis meant for variable snow. Also, as mentioned before, the ones you seen in the shop are consumer racing skis and not the full on FIS skis and more forgiving. They are also stiff and narrow.
I love my atomic SL skis, they are so agile and quick it's so nice to switch to them after skiing wider, longer skis - they hold on just about anything too. To get the most out of skis like this you do need to be able to do good carve turns and pressure them properly, the harder you can ski them and better your technique they better they respond - if you ski about doing skidded turns you won't see anything of the skis peformance.
Just watching ski Sunday actually as they had the slalom on. Almost constant carving
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GordonFreeman, watch some GS as well - my fave for technique tips. Slalom is for gods, Super-G and DH are for nutters, but GS is actually interesting from a technique POV. IMO.
Surprised no one's commented on your comment
Quote:
incredibly fast carving turns
Do you mean incredibly fast direction changes or just that they went past at 60mph? If it's a) then probably (but not necessarily) SL skis, if b) then more likely GS or all mountain planks.
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andyph wrote:
GordonFreeman, watch some GS as well - my fave for technique tips. Slalom is for gods, Super-G and DH are for nutters, but GS is actually interesting from a technique POV. IMO.
Surprised no one's commented on your comment
Quote:
incredibly fast carving turns
Do you mean incredibly fast direction changes or just that they went past at 60mph? If it's a) then probably (but not necessarily) SL skis, if b) then more likely GS or all mountain planks.
Yeah, direction changes?
What's a suitable ski for skiing in glades BTW?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
andyph wrote:
GordonFreeman, watch some GS as well - my fave for technique tips. Slalom is for gods, Super-G and DH are for nutters, but GS is actually interesting from a technique POV. IMO.
There are no real differences in technique between Slalom and GS.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rjs wrote:
andyph wrote:
GordonFreeman, watch some GS as well - my fave for technique tips. Slalom is for gods, Super-G and DH are for nutters, but GS is actually interesting from a technique POV. IMO.
There are no real differences in technique between Slalom and GS.
Must be.
Not many winners at GS also win at slalom?!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
GordonFreeman wrote:
Just watching ski Sunday actually as they had the slalom on. Almost constant carving
Wel actually no....particularly in the 2nd run most of the offset gates required a pivot entry - look at what their heels are doing as they approach the gate. Sure they carve from the fall-line out to the next gate, but that entry is largely not.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
GrahamN, Depends on the racer the hill and the conditions but ther is a tiny bit of rotary and Jumping from edge to edge on really tight gates but for the most part they are on their edges
Love My 3V'S so much fun on piste and I always spend one day at least on piste riping it up.
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rjs wrote:
andyph wrote:
GordonFreeman, watch some GS as well - my fave for technique tips. Slalom is for gods, Super-G and DH are for nutters, but GS is actually interesting from a technique POV. IMO.
There are no real differences in technique between Slalom and GS.
Maybe, but in GS there's more time to see what's happening.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Fattes13, yes, but it's important people realise a) you can't carve all turns, even (especially) at WC level and b) just because you're on your edges it doesn't mean you're carving (the number of times I've had to bite my tongue on that one ). The skill is working out what bits you can carve, and how you cope with the bits you can't.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I count carving as leaving tracks in the snow and even getting a pure carve is almost impossible, there's always a slight bit of skidding especially on steeper sections.
GrahamN, Couldnt agree more, I remember the first time I realised that there was more than one way to ski a race course. It was a big Eureka moment!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
For those that say all turns in SL are pure carves take a look at this slow mo from a steep pitch at Wengen: http://youtube.com/v/JGQ9egMTW9s&NR=1 There is also a large amount of pivoting and redirection of the skis in GS due to the FIS regs now in place.
rjs wrote:
There are no real differences in technique between Slalom and GS.
There are, for a start, the transitions used in each discipline are often totally different
Sorry, I had to turn the music off for that one...horrendous
What do you call pivoting, is that when the skis some off the ground and you use the feet to aim the ski direction?
Presumably slalom skis are better for skiing in trees as well?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Nope, there are much better skis for the trees than slalom skis. Think about it, tree skiing is usually in powder, or at least soft snow. It's harder to ski short skis in those conditions as the tips will sink. Your normal offpsite skis will be better.
After all it is free
After all it is free
clarky999 wrote:
Nope, there are much better skis for the trees than slalom skis. Think about it, tree skiing is usually in powder, or at least soft snow. It's harder to ski short skis in those conditions as the tips will sink. Your normal offpsite skis will be better.
How about a 183, 92 twin tip ?
Of course skill is the predominant factor...
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Yeah, perfectly fine. That's not a radical ski, that's a good allrounder, albeit with an offpiste bias. Why wouldn't it be ifne in the trees?
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clarky999 wrote:
Yeah, perfectly fine. That's not a radical ski, that's a good allrounder, albeit with an offpiste bias. Why wouldn't it be ifne in the trees?
Just figured it might not be ideal as it's a bit longer than most skis. I got it because I was getting into more off piste stuff and I was finding it a lot tougher with the 65-75 underfoot skis. Some might say I'm cheating by not learning to ski off piste with thin skis but I think using the technology to advantage is fine.
Actually, I find it a hell of a lot easier to keep my feet/skis close together with Gladiators than I ever did with thinner skis.
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It's not that long, they'll be fine. Remember twins ski around 5cms shorter than the stated length., plus the tails release easier.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
clarky999 wrote:
It's not that long, they'll be fine. Remember twins ski around 5cms shorter than the stated length., plus the tails release easier.
I heard 10cm. I got 183 as I was getting into off piste and my most recent skis were Head Monster 170s (72 underneath).
ANyway, I have no problems with the length so far so hopefully ok.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
GordonFreeman, trees and carving steep reds require almost diametrically opposite types of ski. Carving on a steep piste you're going to be getting huge accelerations as you approach and hit the fall-line (assuming you actually are carving - if you don't get that acceleration then you're not), and will be having to hold a high edge angle to carve a tight turn and the forces build up on the exit from the turn. For this you need a narrow ski (so you get the most force directed down through the edge onto the ski, with least torsion) and very stiff skis to distribute that force along the edge away from the foot, to get the most grip at tip and tail. This is what a SL or GS ski is. As the piste is hard, the ski doesn't dig very far into the surface, and you need the stiffness to stop the ski sliding away over the surface.
For making tight turns in trees you mostly have soft snow, so you benefit from a large surface area to give you float. You also turn the ski by the snow bending its tip and tail up as you apply force with your feet, pushing the snow away underneath you, rather than directly using the sidecut. The softer snow gives much less reaction than does the hard piste, and so you need a softer ski to allow that bend to happen - the mechanism of generating that bend in the ski is completely different for hard and soft snow. The ski also sits in a relatively deep trough it makes as it passes through the snow, so that stifness is less necessary to get the edge grip. The Gladiator may have good hold for what it is, but it is much softer than an SL or GS ski capable of holding a true carve on a proper steep red.
That pivoting is where the skis are twisted, either on or off the ground, around the feet or a bit in front, to get them pointing as fast as possible onto a line where the skier can then carve out of the turn - and stay in control for the next turn. The turns they are being forced to make by the course are too tight for the skis to carve, so the trick is to get the skis to redirect while losing as little speed as possible. This is what I was saying about that Schladming slalom - when you look at the slowmos they're doing something very similar to that Wengen clip, but just not quite as much. There are some times though when going as fast as possible is not always the optimal solution, as Lizeroux demonstrated in his second run - he absolutely stormed the top half of the course, way faster than anyone previously, but had so much speed that he couldn't control it through the delay gate in the middle, and was very lucky (and supremely skillful) to be able to recover without skiing out.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I know my friends who were doing race training over December and New Year really liked the Dynastar Omeglass Speed for the slalom although these seemed to be very popular skis and it was difficult to get hold of race legal sizes (165+ I think)
They were less keen on their Salomon LAB series GS race skis - I think Rob@rar might agree with them!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I think if I spent a season out here in Quebec, which I may do next year then I would get a second pair of thinner "piste" skis.
I'm just wondering why my Gladiators feel more stable to me than my old Head Monsters even on pistes. On paper a wider, longer, softer ski, should feel less stable than the Head Monsters bu that's not the case. Perhaps the Monsters were too stiff for me? I haven't looked up the specs to compare.
For those that say all turns in SL are pure carves take a look at this slow mo from a steep pitch at Wengen: http://youtube.com/v/JGQ9egMTW9s&NR=1 There is also a large amount of pivoting and redirection of the skis in GS due to the FIS regs now in place.
Only at World Cup level, below this level courses are set more open.
narc wrote:
rjs wrote:
There are no real differences in technique between Slalom and GS.
There are, for a start, the transitions used in each discipline are often totally different
Nope, the speed of transition is different but you are doing the same things.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rjs wrote:
narc wrote:
For those that say all turns in SL are pure carves take a look at this slow mo from a steep pitch at Wengen: http://youtube.com/v/JGQ9egMTW9s&NR=1 There is also a large amount of pivoting and redirection of the skis in GS due to the FIS regs now in place.
Only at World Cup level, below this level courses are set more open.
narc wrote:
rjs wrote:
There are no real differences in technique between Slalom and GS.
There are, for a start, the transitions used in each discipline are often totally different
Nope, the speed of transition is different but you are doing the same things.
I disagree but this thread has already been derailed enough already with talk about tree skiing so I won't get into it.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
narc, The OP did comment on differences between SL and GS before asking about tree skiing.
I guess we shall just have to see whether your trainees have better FIS points at the end of the season than mine.
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despite the fact that they hold extremely well.
). The skill is working out what bits you can carve, and how you cope with the bits you can't.