 Poster: A snowHead
|
Sorry if this is a bit long winded but I have a question - eventually!
I've just returned from Mayrhofen and had great conditions. I tried Atomic skis for the first time, SX10's (150cm). These were great in fresh snow and for carving on blue/shallow red runs. I know I was carving as I went back up to the same run and could see my fresh tracks - no skids, skis spaced out and nice arcs - very chuffed! However, I am not good enough to carve on steeper reds and certainly not blacks as I go too fast and can't control my speed properly, so I tend to revert to skidding or at least tighter turns etc. On the Atomics I was all over the place. Trying to force these skis through tight turns at slower speeds just meant I slipped into a turn everytime and down the piste. So I switched to twin tips (145cm) Salomon 545's or maybe they were 540's. These were excellent, quick turns on reds and blacks, good in fresh snow and carve also (just about), but less stable at speed on flatter areas.
Can anyone explain the main difference between the twin tips and the Atomics for example. Also, what to look for in a ski to avoid having ski's like the Atomics in the future as I haven't seen that many twin tip skis available for hire. I've read the 'intermediate ski' thread but got a bit lost.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
OK, the only thing that the twin tip will have done for you is make the ski shorter. it really won't help significantly on turning. Say the tip of a ski takes up 5cm, that means a 150cm ski has 145 cm in normal contact with the snow. So, you switched to a 145cm ski, with twin tips, that makes it effectively 135cm.
So, that's the first thing, you were on skis 10cm shorter, so a lot easier to ski.
The second thing is the difference in stiffness. The SX10 is considerably stiffer than the 540. This means to get the SX10 to hold a carve, you are going to have to work the ski harder.
So, the two things are: 1. go shorter. 2. go softer.
and 3. go have fun.
The three things are: 1. go shorter. 2. go softer. 3. go have fun.
4. a lesson may help.
The four things are...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Thanks Wear The Fox Hat. I usually go for 150cm and last year had Fischer skis which were ok, but prefer Rossingnols (can't remember the exact models). I'm 5ft 5" so 150cm is already a fairly short ski for my height.
I think you've hit the nail on the head with the stiffness issue. I had a refresher lesson 2 years ago and my technique is ok but will have a top up next year probably. So I'll go with all 3 things or was it 4! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
hayley t,
Maybe the tail of the twin tip didn't get caught up as much although I doubt this was the main reason.
I suspect one of the many differences between you and Masque is weight.
An expert ski for a 'physically toned, big-boned' skier performs similar to an intermediate ski for a lightweight skier.
Basically I'm guessing the Atomics flexed well for Masque but were too stiff for you.
(If you turn out to be heavier than Masque I didn't say nuttin)
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 7-03-05 17:08; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
hayley t, DON'T GO BY YOUR HEIGHT - GO BY YOUR WEIGHT, then ability.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
This may help...
http://www.edge2edge.co.uk/hire_sizes.htm#skilength
Going by your description above, you would be a level 4 on their scale.
But, I think they are still on the long side, certainly for me.
13 stone, level 8 skier, they say I should be on 175 on piste, and 180 off. I'm currently on 170 on piste, no way would I go longer on my current ski, but I might go longer for a softer one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hmmm . . . I do prefer "physically toned, big-boned skier" to "fat b'strd" 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wear The Fox Hat, I mainly ski in Austria so I'm comfortable on all reds and ski some blacks providing they're not too steep or icy. I think the chart is also on the long side. I weigh 58kg but the Atomic skis were new this season so may have been quite stiff. When my German improves I intend to ask more questions about the skis I'm hiring!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| hayley t wrote: |
| However, I am not good enough to carve on steeper reds and certainly not blacks as I go too fast and can't control my speed properly, so I tend to revert to skidding or at least tighter turns etc. |
Sorry, hayley, I took the quote above to give me your level. (the main words being "can't control")
(which could be the start of comments from me about a lot of skiers who over-rate themselves by mistaking "getting down a run" with "getting down a run in a controlled manner", but I'm not going to drag this thread further off topic)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wear The Fox Hat, I understand your point, I have 9-10 weeks skiing under my belt so I would say that my turns on red runs are controlled and steady, but not as the purists would term carving. That said I'm not a complete skidder, I tend to turn and kick my heels out at the end rather than slide the whole turn if you see what I mean. Taking the fall line on steeper runs and carving properly is a bit scary still!
With the Atomics, I was sliding from the moment I started to turn and to carve turns on red runs with them meant going to fast for me and I felt I lacked control. For me there is nothing more satisfing than successfully carving turns on wide blues and some reds (as I did with the twin tips on the last day) and I am striving for the same feeling on steeper runs. I do not enjoy applying a survival technique down the steeper runs and fortunately it's less often now, but I know I do it so don't worry I have no illusions there!
In the meantime, I'll stick to the twin tips for practice (just to get back on topic) and I recommend them for anyone else in the same position! My brother also had some and I saw a big improvement in his turns compared to last year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
hayley t, It really sounds like you don't have the weight to bend them enough for short turns or to work the pop in the tails at low speeds. You could try the SX7 or 8 as a comparison. The 10's are very stiff. Thanks for bringing this up 'cos weight's not been part of my musings in the other thread and it might mean that the Head ski in a stiffer version will feel markedly different (better?) from the iC140's.
Ta. johnB
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
hayley t, I applied WTFH's #2 "go softer" to my boots as well and was able to get deeper hip angles and really clean up the top of my turns by extending the edged skis out and retracting them. Of course, he actually hadn't posted it then, but, credit where it is due.
One thing WTFH hides in plain sight is that, with the same tip/waist/tail dimensions as a conventional-tail ski, the twintip will actually have a shorter-radius sidecut in the same length. So, I bought a pair of Elan MO2s (16m) instead of the M666 (18m) for tree-lined fun. Heee. Made myself dizzy this weekend, worse than any child on endless rollercoaster rides. I know I would have failed any field sobriety test without even the sniff of a drink. Can't wait to do it again!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| The second thing is the difference in stiffness. The SX10 is considerably stiffer than the 540. This means to get the SX10 to hold a carve, you are going to have to work the ski harder. |
Hold on ... that's not true, there's no amount of work I can do with a floppy ski at speed on a hard surface to keep it carving and stop it leaping about. There's a lot to what you say but it's a long way from a universal truth.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
ise, I think WTFH might have meant 'initiate a carve'. Only he was trying to keep it a bit easier of understanding?
Your statement I find perfectly correct, of course, for a torsionally floppy noodle of a ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| comprex wrote: |
| a torsionally floppy noodle of a ski. |
we say "salomon" 
Good point about the initiation of the turn, that's exactly the point of course. I find that deep unsatisfactory but I do understand the appeal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
By eck Fuxup, I've heard some crackers but that's a right buscuit!
If you get a stiff ski into a fast carved turn, your downhill acceleration coupled with the outward centripital vector of the turn will not require any effort by you to maintain the carve radius. It just requires the skills to control and maintain your body articulation in the correct edge angle for the carve.
It's just basic falling object physics. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Masque, I am trying to explain something in laymans terms, and relative to hayley's issues. If you want to discuss angular velocity, and the various force components, by all means do, just wait until I get a JCB.
ise, yes, what I meant was turn initiation, but if you can't initiate, you can't turn, and I agree with your "Salomon" comment!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Any way you cant get them (twin tips) in the gondola slots so whats the point?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
So that you can take up two slots, and be very British and have to share your cabin with as few strangers as possible...!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
hobbiteater, I got them in all but one in Austria! That said, the gondolas seemed new or updated at least with wider ski holders.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
hobbiteater, I've managed to get my twins in gondola slots, although sometimes I use the snowboard slot. I did have a problem on a ski bus once, because the slots were too narrow, but never because the tips wouldn't fit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
must just be me. but i couldn't get them in any of the ones in the 3V (all resorts) without separating them and putting one in each slot and the how do i hold my poles? and got a bol.. telling off for using the snowboard slot...
PS my post stopped the physics tho...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
hobbiteater, yeah, of course you seperate them! As for using the snowboard slot, even better!
What twins are you on?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Did I just get bitchslapped by WTFH 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It took him almost 12 hours to realise... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
It's the drugs, I feel no pain
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Why have I just had a Simpsons flashback to the episode where Homer thinks he's seen an alien, whereas it's just Mr Burns - an ancient American only kept alive by doctors and a series of drugs that make him glow?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wear The Fox Hat, so which twins do you prefer?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
hayley t, you're just baiting me...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Me...! Nice picture.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
hobbiteater, ah, well, Salomon explains part of it - the embarrasment factor.
I'd suggest you take the poles OFF your wrists, and hold them!
hayley t, there are other pictures of them, but I may have to search a bit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Wear The Fox Hat,
er but each hand has already got a bit of french wood in it... i'm definately missing something here...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
WTFH has posted that picture so much I swear it's beginning to fade
Must admit I was expecting him to say "the Olsen Twins"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Wear The Fox Hat, that's a better one!
On a more serious note, in spite of your views of Salomon skis, they were pretty good on the hard stuff too which I had my reservations about. Are Salomons generally considered too soft to be a serious carver etc then?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| hobbiteater, I've managed to get my twins in gondola slots, although sometimes I use the snowboard slot. I did have a problem on a ski bus once, because the slots were too narrow, but never because the tips wouldn't fit. |
I couldn't even get my Völkl 5*'s into the gondala slots at the weekend at Meiringen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
hayley t, define "Serious" - I demoed the "Street Racer 10" at the start of the season, and found it to be dull, boring and unresponsive. It was the same day I demoed the Head iXRCs, which I now own.
I used to have a pair of Salomon 3V race skis. These were good. But they weren't "normal Salomons"
ise, I haven't been there yet to try it, but maybe I should see if I can get a grant to try my skis in different gondolas around the world...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Could a wide ski fall out of a gondola snowboard slot?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DB, with a big enough belt as you went over the pylon I'm sure they could.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
