 Poster: A snowHead
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How is it that low altitude resorts (e.g. Soll Austria ) which have no more snow fall and are seemingly warmer than the high resorts can have almost as long a season?(barring summer glacier skiing)
Usually I go to France (les Arcs, Tignes/Val, Serre Chevalier etc) and am surprised by how low my next destination Soll at 700 -1800 Metres is. Val D’isere village level is higher!
Thanks 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's to do with the difference in climate between areas close to the edge of the continent and the areas closer to the continental interiors. Closer to the interior is colder on average.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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1. Snowmaking
2. You need less snow to ski on land that is meadow or pasture in summer
3. Higher ski areas often open later and close earlier than they actually could if they wanted to
4. Blind luck. Some years the season is not almost as long but acutally much shorter
5. Skiing on mud
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Dont forget the financial consequences! Given the price of beer being so high and the fact that it goes to your head at altitude I would calculate (very scientifically) that a climb in altitude of 200metres equates to around 6.2% increase in beer value!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Also, the Western and Eastern Alps (he said, generalising wildly) have fundamentally different weather systems.
The Haut Savoie, for instance, gets its precipitation predominantly from moisture picked up over the Mediterranean, whereas Salzburgerland gets its snowfall from a cold weather system derived from Siberia and Russia. Just because they don't have the altitude of the Western Alps, it does not follow that the Eastern Alps don't get as much frozen precipitation.
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jakemanc, First, as others have said, the terrain under the snow is different, in that it tends to be much more grassy pastures in Austria as opposed to rocky surfaces in France. Which means you can ski comfortably with significantly less depth of snow.
Second, the snow, while there may not be more over the season, is likely to fall over just as long a season, and temperatures do tend to be lower at the same altitude, so it will stay around for longer.
It seems to be a generally accepted rule of thumb that for skiing purposes, any given altitude in Austria is roughly equivalent to 300m higher in France or Switzerland.
For Soll, you can get historical snow depths (showing all years back to 1997) for any week of the season from here http://www.myweather2.com/Ski-Resorts/Austria/Soll/historical-snow-data.aspx
And remember that you can ski back to base if it is showing 15cm for the lower slopes.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| jakemanc, First, as others have said, the terrain under the snow is different, in that it tends to be much more grassy pastures in Austria as opposed to rocky surfaces in France. Which means you can ski comfortably with significantly less depth of snow. |
I'm assuming that there is not a significant difference in the vegetation line between France and Austria? So the only reason why some of the skiable terrain in Austria will be pastureland and some of the skiing in France will be rocky is because that Austrian terrain is lower than the French terrain. The pistes near my apartment in Les Arcs (at 1800-1900m) are a golf course in the summer, so plenty of grass. On the other hand there is plenty of terrain around 3,000m in Solden where I've skied a bit this winter, and I'm pretty certain they don't have much pastureland up there.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, the vegetation line probably is a major factor, but it's also about the shape of the mountains. Even if the Aiguille Rouge were below the height at which grass grows well I think it'd probably still be rocky and jagged, whereas a the Hohe Salve in Soll is rounded and gently rolling, making it much easier for grass to grow on it.
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ChrisWo, can you scale those examples up to describe differences at a national level? Is it really true that alpine terrain in France is generally more steep and gnarly than alpine terrain in Austria?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, not necessarily more gnarly but of the resorts I have been to there seems to be more 'rolling mountains' than 'ragged cliff' type terrain in Autsria compared with France
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| zammo wrote: |
Also, the Western and Eastern Alps (he said, generalising wildly) have fundamentally different weather systems.
The Haut Savoie, for instance, gets its precipitation predominantly from moisture picked up over the Mediterranean, whereas Salzburgerland gets its snowfall from a cold weather system derived from Siberia and Russia. Just because they don't have the altitude of the Western Alps, it does not follow that the Eastern Alps don't get as much frozen precipitation. |
The Western Alps get their precipitation from high pressure systems over the North Sea and Southern Scandinavia. These pull warm moist air off the Eastern end of the Atlantic Ocean gulf stream and then carry it across the cold plains of northern Europe where it chills. When it is forced to higher altitudes over the Alps, the airflow becomes unstable and it snows. Low pressure systems tracking along the Southern coast of France can bring snow but they tend to also bring warm air from North Africa and are fortunately rare.
By the time these have passed over the Alps, they are normally dry and the Eastern 'leeward' side gets little if any precipitation.
The Eastern Alps get their precipitation from weather systems over the North Eastern Mediterranean. These sweep moist warm moist air up over the Balkans which cools and precipitates over the Eastern Alps. Although less snow normally falls in a season, it is kept cold by the predominate winds in this region, which come from the East, via Siberia and Northern Russia. The dumps can be massive as the moist air has not travelled far from its source. The predominate dry winds are fed by stubborn high pressure systems that sit over Northern Siberia. They can carry moisture but there is little remaining by the time it reaches the Alps and these high pressures must move away to allow the low pressure systems to do their stuff.
France and Italy tend to get frequent snow of smaller falls, Austria tends to get infrequent massive dumps. Both systems work but the Eastern Alps are more prone to periods of snow drought/extended periods of Bluebird days... whichever you prefer to call them.
As a boarder, the softer and fresher snow of the Western Alps suits me better. Boarding on snow cannon produce is not much fun on a board.
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rob@rar, I tihnk I'd agree with rayscoops - there are loads of exceptions, but if you were generalising then you'd say Austrian mountains were more rounded than French ones. I'm not sure if there's a geological explanation...are the Austrian mountains any older than the French (and therefore more eroded)?!
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You know it makes sense.
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| ChrisWo wrote: |
| ...are the Austrian mountains any older than the French (and therefore more eroded)?! |
It's been a long time since I did any Alpine Geology, but no I don't think they are older. All part of the same Alpine Orogeny.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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There could be something in that, as in general French/Swiss mountains seem to be higher. Were the Austrian alps perhaps more heavily glaciated and therefore eroded? Or perhaps they never had quite the same tectonic force pushing them up?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks for the responses snowheads, I think  I have an idea now!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The fact is that the Austrian Alps have been skied on a lot more than the French alps so the austrian alps have been smoothed over. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Morrissey,
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Luck does pay a big part too though - I went to Soll 12 or so years ago in the first week in March, and was skiing in porridge on the slopes to the mid station and sheet ice from the overnight refreeze on the upper slopes. We also had a fair amount of rain in resort.
Clearly bad luck though, and I'm sure snowmaking technology has improved since. However I have tended to stick to higher resorts since, which is a pity in many ways as Soll & Kitzbuhel seemed great destinations, but I would like guaranteed skiing for my hard earned cash.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Whitters wrote: |
| Luck does pay a big part too though |
The biggest part of all, I'd say. You can take some decisions to try and improve your odds (eg time of the season, altitude of slopes, etc) but at the end of the day we take whatever weather the mountain gives us.
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FAQ
where as alot of higher slopes where closed. It does help with the snow cannons as well. 
