 Poster: A snowHead
|
Just come back from our holidays and was wondering what people though is the best technique for stopping yourself sliding after a fall on a steep piste.
My wife fell on a steep black last week and slid some distance before she hit the power on the edge of the piste and stopped ... she was unhurt but it was a little scary.
She was sliding with skis still attached, on her back head first down the piste ...
Is there a recognised technique for stopping yourself?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
roll on to front/ get feet down hill- this bit is easy and very important.
Rotate foot out of binding- stand up- this bit is harder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
roll on to front/ get feet down hill- this bit is easy and very important.
Rotate foot out of binding- stand up- this bit is harder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
We figured getting onto your front would be the best solution ... getting feet down hill could have been a bit tricky given she still had skis attached so they were the most "draggy" part of the system ...
Are you suggesting kicking off the skis?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
whoops. sorry- should say hi and welcome
Perhaps should say that really if Mrs musto can't fall over safely where there is a long slide on piste then perhaps she should consider avoiding such steep slopes- as otherwise it can be a bit dangerous for everybody.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ed123 wrote: |
roll on to front/ get feet down hill- this bit is easy and very important.
Rotate foot out of binding- stand up- this bit is harder. |
Sorry, but if she's sliding head first on her back, then what you're describing is practically impossible given the speed at which bodies accelerate towards hard objects. And, even if she did manage to get herself on her front and feet first, the best thing to do is a press up. An attempt to stand up might turn into a flip and more backward sliding upside down. In real life, people seem to do nothing other than scrabble for grip somehow. Really, it's a drill that needs practice... but of course nobody will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I was waiting for someone to trott out that line ...
She skis very well and had skied that run a number of times over the years, just this time she fell, happens to many people I suspect ...
Just was looking for advise on how to deal with it not to be patronised ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| musto_skiff wrote: |
| Are you suggesting kicking off the skis? |
NO!
Skis are the best tools for stopping the slide!
So I don't see too many situation when one would purposely kick them off.
| Quote: |
| We figured getting onto your front would be the best solution ... getting feet down hill could have been a bit tricky given she still had skis attached so they were the most "draggy" part of the system ... |
There're two ways to do this.
1) drag the skis till she stops sliding.
2) drag the poles (providing it's still in her hands) by pressing it into the snow hard, while allowing the feet to pivot downhill of her body.
Once she got her feet below her body, and the downward slide is somewhat controlled, she can simply press up on the snow pretty easily. The steeper the slope, the easier the "push up".
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 27-01-10 4:58; edited 3 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If I've fallen so hard that I'm sliding uncontrollably down the hill then IME my skis are off very quickly. Isn't that the point of having them set "just so" i.e. not only so they keep your boots in when skiing turning normally but that they are got rid off in severe falls thereby reducing the potential for leg/knee damage ?
So I would suggest musto_skiff, that the bindings weren't set correctly. Other than that wot Bode Swiller, says. Hope this aint too patronising 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| ed123 wrote: |
roll on to front/ get feet down hill- this bit is easy and very important.
Rotate foot out of binding- stand up- this bit is harder. |
NO... NO...
Learn to do a proper self arrest. Practice it on a gentle slope, use your skis/balance/poles to get feet downhill - and aggressively push up with your arms, arching your bottom outwards to get your edges dug in. Your edges are your main hope, use them. Shedding skis helps turn you into a snowball, and sends the ski down on to someone else.
We don't practice this kind of stuff enough - find a 20-30 degree short pitch and try sliding down face first with your feet above you. It can be easier to turn than you think, and using a pole tip held above the basket can act as an anchor to get you head uphill (which is a safer attitude, and leads into getting up)
Memo to self - practice again. With and without skis.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 26-01-10 21:14; edited 4 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Dig your ski edges in to slow yourslef down, pull yourself around with your hands. May not be a pretty or even a 'technique' but if you're really trying (and I odn't mean flapping around like a baby lamb like many people seem to when they're sliding) to sort yourself out, you'll bring yourself round.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Admittedly when it does happen it can be a bit scary hence it can result in some "flapping around". I must practice this when I'm next away 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
A bit easier if you have Grivel Condor or Black Diamond Whippet poles:
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
altis, Bet you can't take them as hand luggage 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I tend to get onto one shoulder, lift feet and skis off the deck and rotate them underneath me. Problem is if you dig them in you could flick head over heels. By the time my feet are downhill my upper body is on my elbows with fingers digging in... I've never had to pole brake (like ice axe braking) in earnest but it looks the best bet on an icy hard surface. It just seems that the more you get used to falling at speed and on steeper slopes the better you become at managing the fall and remaining in some semblance of control.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 26-01-10 22:15; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I generally dislocate my shoulder and then have Scarpa carry me of the slope until help arrives. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| ...and using a pole tip held above the basket can act as an anchor to get you head uphill (which is a safer attitude, and leads into getting up) |
Hmmm. Not sure I'd have the presence of mind to take my hands out of my pole straps whilst hurtling over sheet ice to my doom. IME, everything else that you say is right, though.
If your skis are still attached, you somehow need to get them below you so that you can force your edges into the slope. That's a very tricky manoeuvre, though, because the natural sliding position is head first, so you have to fight the forces of physics. I've managed the trick by lying on my side and bringing my legs over my head in a quasi somersault movement. Unless the piste is very icy, you're sorted at that point.
If your skis have come off then, despite what's claimed above, your bindings might well be too loose for the kind of skiing that you're tackling. It's incredibly rare for my bindings to come off in a fall on a pisted run unless there are some nasty twisting movements involved; for me, binding releases are associated almost entirely with powder and bumps. It's much more difficult to control your speed without your skis and, as recommended above, you need to attempt a feet-downhill fingers-and-toes press-up that will use your fingers and the binding attachment on your boots as brakes. It doesn't work very well on steep, icy pitches, though, so you could be in for a long slide and you might need new gloves after the incident.
IMV, long, steep groomed pitches can be downright hazardous, especially if they face south or west and suffer from freeze-thaw cycles. I like my steeps to be ungroomed so that mistakes (and we all make them despite ed123's rather harsh observation) aren't life-threatening. Groomed steeps often attract out-of-control chancers, too - not that I'm suggesting that musto_skiff's wife is one - so they also carry the risk of being hit hard by another skier. It's certainly happened to me before and it hurts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I have nothing to say on the matter because your wife clearly needs no help and it was the snow to blame and not her technique. Bad snow. I said *bad* snow!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Another key thing is to get into the habit of automatically stopping yourself sliding straight away rather than thinking "ooh I'm sliding, this is nice, think I'll build up a bit of momentum first then try and stop myself once I've really got going". On a piste you can often get away with this until you hit the edge of the piste/a person (not so good!), but a lot of other places are far less forgiving (cliffs, trees, big rocks). As soon as you start the slide as mentioned above, feet below you, progressively dig in toes or skis depending on kit situation.
I practice falling regularly!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Alexandra, or * naughty ski's *
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Use your ski edges as brakes if skis still attached
If skis have detached then try and get head uphill, twist onto your front (like doing a press up) and lever up on elbows whilst digging toe of boots into the slope
Also, though not easy, try and get your hands out of the pole straps and run them down to the bottom of the poles so that they are gripping just above the pole tip, then press down on the tips so that they dig into the slope, and (hopefully)they will act like an ice axe and slow you down
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
MarjMJ, pictures needed....
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
stoatsbrother, lol. Imagine BIG BIG gouged out groove in sugary mogully slope under a chairlift - got the obligatory ironic cheers from the folks above and everything. God bless the man that brought me my ski down, as it was a L-O-N-G way up the slope.
Bella Emberg in an orange ski jacket is good place to start 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
