Need some guidance been skiing number of years on piste with the odd few trips into powder this year off to Canada so wanted to ski more off piste. Have looked at a few skis that can do both including the Scott Mission and Crusade. Could someone recommend a good ski also sizing is a bit vague, I know the rule is fat and long for off piste but its the time on piste too so I need a good compromise if there is one
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 7-01-10 19:12; edited 1 time in total
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High Society Freeride 187.
It's about 104 underfoot and carves suprisingly well.
Sadly, they haven't made a ski that does everything well yet.
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how tall / heavy are you and how aggressively do you ski? DO you want something for 90% piste and 10% off-piste, or will you use pistes only to get to the pff piste?
Wow how quick! I am 182cm and 84 kilo also quite aggressive skier I ski a Volkl supersport 6 on piste. Have never heard of the High Society ski so will look out the reviews. Thanks snowheads
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Liberty hazmats, volkl bridges though i reckon Line Prohpets 90s/100s or I've been having a blast on Line Blends which have been surprisingly good on piste aswell.
though it depends on what you off/on/park split might be and if you want TT, flat or semi
I skied the High Society 187s a couple of days last week. Certainly a good ski offpiste, on the piste they are ok but I felt the extra width even compared to my Kneissl Tankers (93mm underfoot). They would hold on ice if pushed but I had to work on edging them and often ran out of space on busy icy pistes, so had to go back to smeared turns.
I used to have the Scott Mission (in a 183) and always thought it a very good allround ski. It could underperform in very difficult snow (eg refrozen crud), also in tricky offpiste conditions where edge hold was of utmost importance, and start sinking in bottomless powder. But otherwise very skiable everywhere, including on piste due to the relatively short turn radius (16m).
If you're also taking your supersports to Canada, it may make sense to get a proper offpiste weapon, at least 95-100mm underfoot, possibly more.
I'm 5'11, or 179 cm , and 86 kg.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
horizon, interesting, I've gone for the 179 High Society Freerides, one reason was they are slightly 'thinner' underfoot...
After all it is free
After all it is free
horizon, Looks great where were you skiing? Guess a 187 would be fine for me then. Also seen Volkl mantras am looking for reviews on these. papasmurf, Havent done much park the odd jump nothing exciting!
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I've found the scott punisher a verstile all round ski, but do you want a just for canada ski or one that will work there and for normal hoildays aswell.
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papasmurf wrote:
I've found the scott punisher a verstile all round ski, but do you want a just for canada ski or one that will work there and for normal hoildays aswell.
All rounder really dont want to be taking more than one pair on plane
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Don't assume that off-piste in Canada means powder - especially as you don't say when/where you are going: Skiing off-piste means skiing whatever you come across, which may be powder, but equally can mean porridge, moguls, rocks, trees, mud... A ski you should be able to find quite easily is the K2 Apache range: they come in various widths depending on what you roughly expect to do - I had a pair of Recons for a long long time and were always my weapon of choice in varied conditions.
If you are going to just about any resort in Canada the ski-hire place should have a selection of skis for you to try in the conditions that you are actually experiencing. Might be a better option than buying in advance??
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
RobW, I wouldn't assume powder anywhere Canada or Europe! Been skiing far too long to expect a guarantee of any kind of weather.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Volkl mantra, or AC range, or somthing from Movement. Barring the skis I actually own, my choice would be the prophet 90.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
joshua, I was on the back side of Alpe d'Huez.
High Society 187 would not be too much ski for you, I think. However, for an allround ski, something with more than 100mm underfoot may be a tad overkill, especially if you're not used to wide skis. But if you DO get powder they'll be perfect. The suggestion above to test and then buy over there may be good (unless you can get a great deal here). There are LOADS of good skis nowadays.
kitenski, indeed, but I had skis with those dimensions, I needed a (European) powder weapon.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
joshua, horizon, speaks wisely. We acquired "fat" skis this year because we wanted something that would make life in crud a little easier (we tend to ski SL/GS race skis most of the time). We acquired some rather pretty skis 93 mil underfoot form a local specialist.
They do exactly what we want off piste especially in poo-poo and are challenging in their own right so we are very pleased indeed, but they are definitely not what we'd take out if we knew we were going to be on piste mostly.
Having a 2cm lever each side of your ski boot does not make skiing easier on firm surfaces. It sounds like here are a whole bundle of physical reasons why you probably want to own a single-ski-quiver ski that is piste optimised and rent something fatter for big powder days.
And just don't go there when anyone talks fatter than 100mm. It's nonsense unless you're in Alaska.
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Poster: A snowHead
Atomic Nomads?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Another vote for Nomads.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I nominate a pair of Movement Sluffs 184. Simply awesome and if you're an aggressive skier then they may be right up your street
I also have high societys in 179 and would recommend them. However, at your height i would go for the 187. They are a semi twin so ski shorter than the stated length.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Cant fault the Prophet 90 for a euro all rounder. Digs trenches on the piste unless its silly icy, floats plenty, not too long a radius so still good for lazy carving, light, well balanced, stable, long enough (though another few CM in front of the boot would be nice sometimes) oh, and plenty tough bases and edges. Always nice.
If I ever bent them reckon I'd have the same shortlist as I did when I bought them a couple of years ago - P90 (Euro bias) P100 (NA bias) Mantra (prepared to pay a lot more for a sidewall ski with only 1 end to it bias).
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I didn't like the Prophet 90's at all - they were just too stiff for me to work properly unless I was really charging, and the tips kept diving in pow (the shovel at the front seems very small!) In contrast my Dynastar Big Troubles are ace everywhere apart from hard ice. They really excel when the offpiste is in less than perfect condition, but still float well in deep pow (they're only 2mm wider underfoot than the prophets, but float sooooooooo much better). Another bonus is you can find previous seasons models (but brand new) easily on ebay. They are currently being sold new as the sixth sense big, but the only difference is the graphics.
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After all it is free
under a new name wrote:
And just don't go there when anyone talks fatter than 100mm. It's nonsense unless you're in Alaska.
Nice to see normal service has been resumed
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Mosha Marc, nah - last season you could have substituted 66mm for 100mm
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Prophet 100s may be bit too wide for on piste... I got this years volkl bridges. They do both just fine! Really happy with the ski so far. You get some chatter at high speeds, but that is kinda expected with the ski dimensions. And the skis float fine in powder which is all you could really ask for! You will need to put a lot more effort in carving though, regardless of which all mountain ski you go for.
under a new name, how is it nonsense? I skied 60cm fresh powder the other week, I know I would have wanted wider skis then (admittedly the 92mm were fine), but that doesn't negate the point that you can still use the full potential of a 100+mm ski in places other than Alaska.
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Timmaah wrote:
under a new name, how is it nonsense? I skied 60cm fresh powder the other week, I know I would have wanted wider skis then (admittedly the 92mm were fine), but that doesn't negate the point that you can still use the full potential of a 100+mm ski in places other than Alaska.
Because the OP asked for advice on a good compromise ski. He mostly skis on piste and is looking to explore a bit more off piste. I'd argue that anything which is 100mm+ is not really a good compromise ski, and is designed to be skied off piste with few, if any, compromises made for its on piste performance. That's why, IMO, recommendations for 100mm+ skis are nonsense and should be ignored.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
There are plenty of good skis out there but I agree with rob@rar, 100mm underfoot is totally unrealistic for someone making their first forays on to powder and looking for a one-ski quiver and it's totally inappropriate and quite frankly irresponsible to put an intermediate on a ski like this! You'd be the first to complain when some "gaper" knocks you off your feet because he can't turn/stop when you're waiting in the lift line!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Alexandra, exactly right. Very fat skis will make it more difficult to develop fundamental skills when you're skiing on piste.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Head IM 82 (82 mm waist)
Head Mojo 94 (yes you guessed it, 94 mm waist)
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joshua,
Quote:
I know the rule is fat and long for off piste but its the time on piste too so I need a good compromise if there is one
You, me and every other keen skier gets to this question. It'll be easier on you if you just accept the truth now - you need more than one pair!
Seriously though, unless you a) don't ski on piste intentionally b) don't really care about enjoying on piste skiing relative to deep snow float c) feel it's important that everyone should know you're a fully paid up member of gnarly off-pisters rool or d) weigh a bit more than a small walrus, imho no one should consider wider than 100mm for a one ski quiver. From what you've posted re: your requirements/weight/experience I'd hazard you shouldn't be looking at anything much more than 90ish mm for now.
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joshua, you have a PM
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
joshua,
Unless I missed it above would look at the Scott Crusade, my son Brandonski spent all last season on a pair and they did seam to handle deep powder and on piste short carving very well. they have a very short turn radius for a wide ski and get plently of float off piste.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Timmaah, and also...
1. because in Europe it's quite rare to get the really light fluffy snow that is common in much of North America. So you just don't get a great deal (if any) benefit of "true" "powder" skis.
2. I reckon anything much over 80mms seriously compromises on piste performance.
Thusly, you're losing performance on one side without deriving any benefit on the other.
Also, why do you want to ski 60cm deep powder but only use the top 2cms? If you want to have a piste like experience, ski on piste. If you want to ski in powder, use Nordica Dobermann SL-Rs. Sorry, I mean, Rip'n'Wud FCs. (Nearly forgot there).
Plenty for me too take in here! I can really see from the posts that the idea of an all round ski is what everyone wants but it seems a difficult choice.slikedges, I agree based on the post from under a new name, I think too much hanging over each side of the boot would make on piste pretty interesting.nbt, Thanks for the PM will have a thinlk about it an get back to you rob@rar, Really agree with your post,it is hopefully going to be my first real go at powder but for some reason I think am gonna really enjoy it hence I want the right ski to get me there. Maybe will have to go with two pairs. But you know sometimes when your on piste you spot a great bit of powder and would love to get in it but its not so great on the supersports I have now
But you know sometimes when your on piste you spot a great bit of powder and would love to get in it but its not so great on the supersports I have now
Perfectly sensible to go for skis which will relish that great bit of powder (if you're prepared to accept a dull, lifeless ski on piste, which will be much harder to ski well ).
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
under a new name, looks to me like even on big skis you can be in the powder
After all it is free
After all it is free
rob@rar, I think I'm going to hire some fat skis for this trip then pick up a bargain after the season ends. The choice and preferences a seem to be endless though so may be some confusion to come yet
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joshua, sounds like a sensible plan. Much better to have a proper test of piste v. all-mountain v. dedicated off-piste skis before you commit, especially if you are going for a one ski quiver. I skied on two different pairs of skis today, a 65mm slalom ski and an 86mm (I think) all mountain ski. Same skiers, same conditions and the difference on piste was dramatic (I didn't take the slalom skis off piste).
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