 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The cynical me would wonder how much of the info has been lifted from here
EDIT A quick read through would suggest the answer to that is A LOT
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 16-12-09 16:45; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Do I need winter tyres when driving to a ski resort?
The short answer is probably yes.
Well that's a definitive answer isn't it 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The videos showing the differences between winter tyres and standard tyres are quite effective.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My version of the packing order
(1) 2WD with summer tyres - suicidal
(2) 2WD with normal all season tyres + snow chains - OK to get around. Need to stop car to fit chains when the going gets tough.
(3) 2WD with winter tyre - as (2) but no need to do chains. Mountain passes with heavy snow may be out of bound.
(4) 2WD with winter tyres + snow chains - consider to be the safe way to ski anywhere in the Apls.
(5) 4WD with summer tyres - false sense of safety, just as lethal on the snow
(6) 4WD with all season tyres and no chains - equivalent to (3) above
(7) 4WD with winter tyre - getting better and better. Pretty safe for skiing in the Alps
( 4WD with winter tyres + snow chains - should be the ultimate equipment.
Then there is the quality of the 4WD mechanism. Weight of the vehicle coming into the equation too.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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how can a website offering the definitive on road laws in France (for anglos) not have a discussion on priorite a droite..
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| Boris wrote: |
The cynical me would wonder how much of the info has been lifted from here
EDIT A quick read through would suggest the answer to that is A LOT |
and a Lot from Natives, The AA and The Rac websites 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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bertie bassett, that's just down the road - I'll pop by and ask 
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I`m not sure what you`re getting so sniffy about. Very sensible to draw upon the peerless wisdom of Snowheads, not to mention RAC, Natives etc. Lots of useful info in one convenient spot.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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and then take thie p*ss on the footer of each page with this
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Reproduction of this website, in whole or in part, in any form, without the express written permission of drive2ski.com is prohibited
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If material has been lifted from other websites isn't it usually the done thing to ask permission and give appropriate credits.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| If material has been lifted from other websites isn't it usually the done thing to ask permission and give appropriate credits. |
Did we not cover that in the 'some travel company's nicked one of my photo's' thread?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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bertie bassett, where did you get that name and address from? Is it on the site? I know a Tim Parfitt - he might be the web guy you mentioned though as he is involved in the web.
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Poster: A snowHead
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johnnyh, not the Midget racer is he?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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johnnyh, the WHOIS database lists that info for every internet domain - see http://whois.domaintools.com for one easy to use query tool, but there are many out there
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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bertie bassett, Hi Bertie - thought I'd introduce myself, I'm Tim Parfitt!
Glad you all like the drive2ski.com website. To clarify, the information has been obtained from the Foreign Office and has been verified with each Countries tourist information board/department of transport, as much of the information from other websites could at best be described as misguided.
The concept of the website is to promote the use of winter tyres as a good mate of ours had a serious accident whilst driving in the mountains using summer tyres. Most people simply don't know European tyre laws or the benefits of winter tyres, and until now there was no single source of information. Research has shown last year approx. 175,000 people from the UK traveled to the ski resorts via car.... to us this demonstrated the need for a website.
Quite frankly over the past six months having read countless threads and posts on Snow Heads the amount of rubbish and disinformation about this topic amazes me! Hope you enjoy the drive2ski.com website and find it informative - It is still in its infancy, there is still a lot to go on it and we will soon have information on the best ferries, hotels/motels, restaurants and cafes to stop at along the way.
Regards Tim
P.s. Could you PLEASE remove my name and address as I don't want anymore offers to invest in Nigerian ski resorts!! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| parf64 wrote: |
bertie bassett,
Quite frankly over the past six months having read countless threads and posts on Snow Heads the amount of rubbish and disinformation about this topic amazes me! |
Why??
.. Just had a look at the website - here -> http://www.tyremen.co.uk/winter-tyre-10-tips.html - it recommends winter types when the temperature is less than 7°C - is that correct?
Edited to add last line
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 17-12-09 19:44; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| parf64 wrote: |
bertie bassett, Hi Bertie - thought I'd introduce myself, I'm Tim Parfitt!
Quite frankly over the past six months having read countless threads and posts on Snow Heads the amount of rubbish and disinformation about this topic amazes me! Hope you enjoy the drive2ski.com website and find it informative - It is still in its infancy, there is still a lot to go on it and we will soon have information on the best ferries, hotels/motels, restaurants and cafes to stop at along the way.
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Welcome to Snowheads
I've learnt more about driving to the alps on here than any other website, and the best thing about it is that you get input from people who do it regularly, live there, or travel around for work so the information is generally upto date - yes you get differences of opinion, but I'd much rather hear other peoples points of view and debating the issue then read a website that looks like a complete lift from other sites...
Where are you going to get the rest of the content from then?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hi Tim. I think your website has just broken
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allanm, I'ld always thought/read/been told the cut off was 8 degrees celsius, below that a winter tyre will progressively work better than an all weather tyre, above it and the all weather progressively starts to outstrip the winter tyre.
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parf64, when you registered the domain, you put that info into the public domain when you failed to request the privacy option that registering as a private individual would have offered you. If you think that the spammers don't already trawl the WHOIS database for contact details, you're sadly mistaken, and in the UK, it is a legal requirement that you provide full contact information on your website.
Look on it as a chance for publicity, and forget the privacy angle - there's nothing you can do about it now that you are a website owner.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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midgetbiker, Blimey, then the whole UK should be on winter tyres!! I wouldn't dream of buying winter tyres over here.
bertie bassett, seconded. I've driven from Lyon to Les Arcs several times, taken advice from this site, never had a problem. Looks to me like winter tyres are a lucrative market - knock up a quick [template] website and earn a bit from 'click throughs'. Can't find much on that site that isn't somewhere else, albeit some wording may be a little different, perhaps.
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| drive2ski.com wrote: |
| In some French Alpine regions Winter tyres or tyres + chains are mandatory on roads when designated by a 'pneus neiges' (winter tyres) sign |
Has anyone actually seen a 'pneus neiges' sign? Can't say I have - I've seen a 'pneus d'hiver permis' in the Savoie but that's not the same now is it!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Quite frankly over the past six months having read countless threads and posts on Snow Heads the amount of rubbish and disinformation about ANY topic amazes me
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Fixed it for yer
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Soz for multiple posts... but... from http://www.tyremen.co.uk/winter-tyre-10-tips.html ..
To quote '... Therefore, it is not advisable to drive with only two winter tyres fitted on the drive axel.'
OK.. HTF do I get more than one on each end? Just curious.
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| allanm wrote: |
| midgetbiker, Blimey, then the whole UK should be on winter tyres!! I wouldn't dream of buying winter tyres over here. |
I have and I wouldn't do otherwise now. Had to go out earlier on the snowy/icy roads round here. Awesome. Barely a slip. The biggest difference I find is if you need to brake harder than normal. On summer tyres you're in the ditch but on winter tyres you just stop like normal. Simples. So, yes, if everyone in the UK was on winter tyres the place might actually not grind to a halt.
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You know it makes sense.
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Bode Swiller, Do you drive a Volvo, by any chance? In all seriousness you must be one in thousands if not more, I've driven XXyrs in the UK on what it has to offer and never - not even barely barely, a slip (apart from deliberately or on a bike).
Would be interesting to know how many people in the UK change tyres for winter
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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allanm,
Very few people in the UK change tyres for winter. Winter tyre sales in the UK account for only about 3% of total sales, compared to mainland Europe which is about 39%. The fact is, while winter tyres aren't essential for UK driving conditions, many people would benifit from using winter tyres due to the extra grip and handling they provide in cold weather conditions.
www.drive2ski.com has not been set up to promote winter tyre use in the uk (although that would be a bonus), it has been set up to advise and encourage their use to the increasing number of people who drive to the Alps each year......the vast majority, totally inadvertently, will be on illegal tyres. Drive2ski.com does not expect to appeal to experienced SnowHeads with vast amounts of experience in all matters to do with skiiing....it is there for Mr/Mrs Average + 2 kids who ski, want to drive, and do it safely and legally.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Move over Jensen, eat your heart out Lewis, allanm is our new driving hero . The only reason I'm on winter tyres this winter is because I needed new tyres anyway and I'm heading for the alps. The law's a bit sketchy in Austria - residents definitely must have winter tyres but some suggest it's OK for tourists to stay on their summer tyres. Of course, that's all very well until you have an accident. Also, these days, there are winter tyres out there like Vredestein Wintrac 4xtreme that are designed for all year use anyway and rated to 130mph. So, the way I look at it, why not. Having driven with and without them, I much prefer it with. However I'm sure someone of your immense driving talent could manage just as well on slicks. You do see plenty of other people on snowy UK roads who are all over the place so I don't know where you've been driving.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bode Swiller,
The Austrian police are very strict at the moment and insisting that any driver has the appropriate tyres for the conditions. That includes non residents.....the least you will get away with (if stopped) are M+S tyres + snowflake logo on the tyre wall. The majority of UK supplied M+S tyres do not carry the snowflake logo.......hence why so many Brits are unknowingly on illegal tyres.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| allanm wrote: |
| midgetbiker, Blimey, then the whole UK should be on winter tyres!! I wouldn't dream of buying winter tyres over here. |
I have and I wouldn't do otherwise now. Had to go out earlier on the snowy/icy roads round here. Awesome. Barely a slip. The biggest difference I find is if you need to brake harder than normal. On summer tyres you're in the ditch but on winter tyres you just stop like normal. Simples. So, yes, if everyone in the UK was on winter tyres the place might actually not grind to a halt. |
Fitted mine on tuesday and boy was I smug on the school run this morning. 
Before anyone asks "but was anyone else having problems", yes, I was one FWD small hatchback (a pretty ideal vehicle) lock up at a junction and slide straight out into the major roads traffic.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Probably does make a difference which part of the country you come from. Whilst Kent has got bad snow at the moment (I think) it probably has a lot less days significantly below 8 degrees in an average year than say Newcastle.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| allanm wrote: |
Soz for multiple posts... but... from http://www.tyremen.co.uk/winter-tyre-10-tips.html ..
To quote '... Therefore, it is not advisable to drive with only two winter tyres fitted on the drive axel.'
OK.. HTF do I get more than one on each end? Just curious. |
Pedant  you know what they mean
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
vast majority, totally inadvertently, will be on illegal tyres
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Given that the vast majority go to France - then they won't be on illegal tyres, as winter tyres are not compulsory there
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
| drive2ski.com wrote: |
| In some French Alpine regions Winter tyres or tyres + chains are mandatory on roads when designated by a 'pneus neiges' (winter tyres) sign |
Has anyone actually seen a 'pneus neiges' sign? Can't say I have - I've seen a 'pneus d'hiver permis' in the Savoie but that's not the same now is it! |
The sign is a B.26 which as you say is not a Pneus Neige but mandatory snow chains on two driven wheels. There is no legal definition of what a snow tire is in France, ditto for snow socks and spike spiders. My wife checked on her legal database earlier and there does not seem to be any published jurisprudence for snow tires either so they are a bit of a grey area.
The legislation seems to date from 1967 and cars and tires have progressed a lot since then. However someone from the road transport department tells me your insurance may be invalid if you have an accident due to snow and have no snow chains or snow tires on a road that shows the B 26.
Pneus neige admis is the M9 sign. The latest advice from the government bison fute document about winter driving seems to be that this covers both studded tires and snow tires although they do point out that the snow tires advice is a grey area. A B 26 can have a counter party B 44 which says you no longer have to use snowchains.
The B 26 should only be displayed when there is heavy snow, and in the Isere at least, this seems to be the case but elsewhere it seems the sign gets left up all the year round which devalues its purpose. Police are not supposed to fine you in the middle of summer if you don't have snow chains on.
In short, if you are driving from English to the Alps you need a pair of snow chains in the boot.
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| Quote: |
In short, if you are driving from English to the Alps you need a pair of snow chains in the boot.
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But put them on if it snows
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
The majority of UK supplied M+S tyres do not carry the snowflake logo.......hence why so many Brits are unknowingly on illegal tyres.
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Methinks this is a big scare-mongery. My UK-sourced winter tyres have the logo, so do my mates (but I'm wondering what difference a logo makes if it is evidently an M+S tyre). Also, as far as I'm able to work out, the rule in Austria applies to residents (but I agree it isn't clear). Otherwise the many many 000s of Dutch, Belgian, British vistors would all need to be hauled over for an easy on the spot fine - not good tourism PR. Fact is, if you are heading for somewhere on the front range like Kitzbuhel, Soll etc, then you have little to fear as the roads are kept very well swept, the only hills you are likely to find might be the final few metres to your hotel and you've always got the chains in the boot just in case of course.
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Fitted mine on tuesday and boy was I smug on the school run this morning.
Before anyone asks "but was anyone else having problems", yes, I was one FWD small hatchback (a pretty ideal vehicle) lock up at a junction and slide straight out into the major roads traffic.
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Yes, I was Mr Smug too, this morning was just great. Torvill & Deans everywhere. Wheel spin city. Some cars, like Mercs especially, actually can't go either forwards or backwards as the traction control overrules the ABS and argues with all the other safety sensors. Magic to watch.
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So Parf64 has pm'd me asking me to remove his data from this thread, what do you think Snowheads?
I cant say I'm minded to comply however as
a) He hasn't explained where he's got the written content from, and it wasn't me that originally commented on the possibility it being a 'lift'
b) He's denigrated the value of the information provided on here, and yet as evinced by this thread alone the contributions are good
c) He's presenting his website as de-facto truth e.g. under road laws section when it doesn't even manage to cover some of the basic driving rules in France, nor actually get the bits right about winter tyres and the signs
d) It's public record data anyway - clearly listed on a whois search - http://www.whois.net/whois/drive2ski.com
Thoughts, comments?
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Fri 18-12-09 14:50; edited 1 time in total
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