 Poster: A snowHead
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What skis?
Ok I’m about 168CM and 80Kg, I’ve been skiing on and off since I was 12, 35 now, never owned my own skiis. I would rate myself as a top end advanced on piste skier (ski anything fast, except bumps when I can avoid them) with intermediate off-piste ability.
I skied about 30 days in the Pyrenees last season, thanks to unusually good snow and demo’d a few skis over that period:
Volkl AC30
Salomon X-Wing Tornado
Head Monster 78
Rossignol Bandit
Dynastar Contact 11
Volkl 12ft Tigershark Powerswitch
Rossignol R9X and R9S
Dynastar Speed Course
As you’ll see, I started off looking for an all mountain ski, but found I wasn’t willing to sacrifice the on-piste performance for versatility. The Volkl 12FT were probably the best compromise, but I missed out before they were discontinued and the price was a bit prohibitive at the time anyway. I finally fell in love with the Dynastar Speed Course for sheer cheeks flapping round your ears big GS fun, but found them to be perhaps a little too lacking on the versatility front, especially @ 17M radius which is fine somewhere with big wide pistes, but would be of limited use at some of the smaller Pyrenean resorts. My short list is pretty much down to the following and I will rent if there are big powder dumps:
Atomic D2 GS Race
Dynastar Speed Course Ti (15m 2009/2010) model
Fisher RC4 Worldcup RC Pro
Head iSupershape Speed
Has anyone skied any of these or know where to demo them in the Pyrenees? Also if you know of an All Mountain ski that could cut it on piste with this sort of company, I’d love to hear about it, was thinking K2 X-Plorer or AC50?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 18-11-09 16:42; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gread1974, can't help with your question, but Welcome to snowHeads!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
especially @ 17M radius which is fine somewhere with big wide pistes, but would be of limited use at some of the smaller Pyrenean resorts
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not sure where you're coming from here. If you're skiing a narrow or crowded piste, you won't be race carving, you will be hopefully doing shorter radius turns with a blend of carving and rotational steering. These can be done with skis of any turn radius, indeed I find it easier to do short rad turns with slightly wider skis, compared to a very short radius slalom ski (say 10-12m radius) - which can become quite twitchy and prone to edge grab. BASI have pretty much banned these short radius slalom skis for their advanced courses for these reasons - they want the guys to be on 17m minimum I think.
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gra, BASI haven't actually banned them, and they only considered it due to potential for knee injuries from using these skis, not due to any technique thing related to edge grabbing/twitchiness.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Even children's GS skis start at 17 metres, so a bit of a misnomer there. 17m is a good compromise radius IMV, but any of the 15m choices will be very similar.
Can't help you choose between them, except to say the D2 is supposed to have a 18.5 radius.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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A couple of the best/top instructors in St Anton last season were on Head supershapes, but can't remember if they were supershapes or magnums (I imagine it will have been the more hardcore one, whichever that was), and rated them. Some of my mates also tried them, and all of them said they were ace, with great grip., and that however much you push the skis they feel like they can take more.
For a hard carving performance all mountain ski, try the Dynaster Sultan 85.
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I have the Worldcup RCs in 180 and they're fantastic. They are unflappable at speed and rock solid on edge. They're also very smooth and quick from edge to edge - when loaded up all you have to do is release the edges and flick your hips and they'll throw you into the next turn. I find Atomic GS skis a bit more scratchy- they're still rock solid, but they always feel a bit front heavy to me. That said its very much personal preference- most the instructors in the ski schools I've worked for tend to be extremely loyal to one brand or the other, and won't switch. They do tend to all be on the RCs or GSs though.
Re. the heads, whilst the supershape magnum (the green one) is a terrific ski- forgiving and great for easy, short carved turns and moguls and really quick turns, I don't like the supershape speed- it feels like a compromise between the atomics and fischers to me and I don't think the edge grip is as good as either of the other options.
If you're struggling to snap a 17m radius ski around it might be an idea to look at something a bit shorter with a tighter radius like the magnum, these are also pretty solid at speed but are a bit more forgiving. None of those skis are true "gs" skis- the race skis might look similar but are generally skied longer and have way higher radii- (over 24m).
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gread1974, I think I kind of know where you're coming from. In my case, I ski a full on SL ski as my daily although we've just acquired something a little fatter for the weekends.
My only spoiler is that you might find some of the higher end Stocklis interesting, just as good on piste and better off...?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Try Fischer Progressor 9+. I took a pair of demos last season in Whistler
Almost race ski. Holds firmly an edge like pure GS ski when on ice, but is pretty good in light offpiste as well as in bumps.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Atomic D2 GS Race
Dynastar Speed Course Ti (15m 2009/2010) model
Fisher RC4 Worldcup RC Pro
Head iSupershape Speed
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Any of them, all great skis, If it were me i wouldn't even waste money testing them (unless they let you do it for free when you buy the ski (do not get an ex-rental if they do). I would go for the heads or fischers, they are both a solid safe bet and suit most peoples skiing styles. Atomic are massively over-priced as far as i can tell, though still a good ski.
Also if you're looking for a decent all-rounder W94, is very right, the Head Magnum is a great ski and just a little wider on the waste, not enough to help in powder but a life-saver when conditions get a little softer or theres a bit of a dusting.
Final advice, shop around, see what's going cheap from last year, most of these havent changed much (obvious exception of the atomics) if there are 15-17m radius skis in other brands going cheap they may well be worth a look, In europe these mini gs skis tend to be the mainstay of skiing (seems to be slalom skis in the uk, but that's a different story) and most companies have got a good competitor in this range, dont be afraid to try something new..... i.e the stocklis if you're feeling strong.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I know how you feel about all mountain skis, they really are lacking if you are carving on the groomed. The problem is, is that if you go for race skis and you want to do anything other than carve large radius turns on the groomed they will be pretty horrible. They are a specialised tool so I own 1 pair of race skis and 1 pair of all mountain skis, there is no way to have soft snow performance and amazing piste performance in 1 ski. Having 2 pairs isn’t such an issue because race skis don’t change much year to year and you can pick up last seasons really cheap.
Your list looks decent if you are willing to accept the lack of versatility, a ‘cheater’ GS ski is more usable than the true 27m radius versions. The fischers have a very good reputation and are excellent skis, I would also very serious look at blizzard who’s race skis are getting brilliant reviews.
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narc, think those in that short list are "cheater" gs skis... also I refuse to accept the Scott Crusade is bad on piste, i am fully sold on that ski.
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You know it makes sense.
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narc, "anything other than carve large radius turns on the groomed they will be pretty horrible"
errr, nnooo, disagree, had a lovely day in the powder of the first powder weekend (for me) of last year (mid december) on my WC Rossi GSs, (the 181s, not the 190s). They were great.
gread1974, the high end stocklis I referred to were the XXLs which ski like a fatter GS ski as compared the DP Pros which ski like a fat DH ski. Not quite as responsive I grant, but maybe a good compromise if you aren't actually racing? Havn't kept up with the model names this year...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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gread1974, welcome to snowheads, whilst I can't help you a great deal I ski on Head Race Dept GS skis and am very happy with them, I've found that Head seem to do very good edges which are especially effective on hard pack or icy conditions, if that is important to you buy Head 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
narc, "anything other than carve large radius turns on the groomed they will be pretty horrible"
errr, nnooo, disagree, had a lovely day in the powder of the first powder weekend (for me) of last year (mid december) on my WC Rossi GSs, (the 181s, not the 190s). They were great.
gread1974, the high end stocklis I referred to were the XXLs which ski like a fatter GS ski as compared the DP Pros which ski like a fat DH ski. Not quite as responsive I grant, but maybe a good compromise if you aren't actually racing? Havn't kept up with the model names this year... |
under a new name recommends non-slalom ski post preservation!!!
actually, i was going to say that there are plenty of all mountain/mid-fat skis with GS geometry and stiffness but a good bit fatter and more versatile. stockli make a few and also check out the dynastar legend pro, kastle's freeride range and maybe the kneissl tanker
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kastle, kneissl, stockli..... I hope you have some money gread1974,
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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dulcamara, i'm assuming he's got a bit of cash if he's in the market for decent race skis
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Arno, those are in race-stock GS territory in terms of turn radius, 25m+, but the OP is talking about something with a 15-17m turn radius, cheater GS radius. For mainly-on-piste/harder conditions a shorter radius certainly makes sense.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you everyone for their input
I am looking at cheater GS skis, rather than race stock, I can live with the shame:D
I do have enough euros set aside for a descent pair, but I really can't justify two pair right now, hence the dilema.
Thanks for the tips RE: Kastle, Kneissl, Stockli, Scott etc but it's pretty difficult to get this stuff down here in the Pyrenees and I'm reluctant to splurge on a brand I have no experience of without trying it first. The Dynastar Legend & Sultan suggestions are spot on too, I skied the Legends last season (missed them off the list) and found them to pretty solid all round, whilst not really excelling anywhere.
I guess the truism is that you can't have it all. So I'm either going all out Cheater GS or All Mountain and forgetting the stuff in between allowing me to buy a second pair when funds allow. The Atomic GS are out on price and radius and I am leaning towards the Fishers, I'm going to try and demo them as soon as the snow comes back, although Volkl AC50's @ €399 on Sport Conrad are a pretty tempting All Mountain prospect. Anyone have any experience of them? I'll also give the Sultan's a go before I decide.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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gread1974, is telemark pyrenees anywhere near you? not sure what they do about demos but they certainly have a very good range for sale
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gread1974, see if you can get some Rossignol 9X Oversize to play with. Cheater GS ski but with 80mm underfoot.
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| gread1974, welcome to snowheads, whilst I can't help you a great deal I ski on Head Race Dept GS skis and am very happy with them, I've found that Head seem to do very good edges which are especially effective on hard pack or icy conditions, if that is important to you buy Head |
A bit off topic but still Head produce one of worse race stock skis someone can get. Their production line is so outdated that it really hurts, and I feel sorry for all the techs, who need to make those skis fast. Most of this info comes from guy, who probably took care of more Head SL and GS skis then anyone else on this World, while being SL and GS serviceman for one very famous Head skier. So based on this, and based on this what I managed to see and ski myself (and those skis were best they could produce, since they were made for their top of the top athlete), I wouldn't suggest anyone to go that way. You can get so much better for same money, that it's really just not worth.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Arno, yeah but you know that this season I have gone over to the dark side... (no, not snowboarding, just farter skis...)
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| gread1974 wrote: |
| The Atomic GS are out on price and radius and I am leaning towards the Fishers, I'm going to try and demo them as soon as the snow comes back, although Volkl AC50's @ €399 on Sport Conrad are a pretty tempting All Mountain prospect. Anyone have any experience of them? I'll also give the Sultan's a go before I decide. |
The Fischers blow away the AC50 and Fischer are generally also excellent value. The AC50 isn't particularly well liked.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Dynastar Legend & Sultan suggestions are spot on too, I skied the Legends last season (missed them off the list) and found them to pretty solid all round, whilst not really excelling anywhere.
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I to had the L8k's last season - they were replaced with the Sultan 85's on warranty for this season (delamination, and they'd stopped mkaing the L8k's). Obviously they're 85mm bigger underfoot, but they seem to be much bigger everywhere else too - they have significantly more sidecut (and a tighter radius), which results in increased width along the length of the ski, but especially at the front. They seem a bit stiffer too. I've only skied them at the snowdome so far, but will be out in Austria for the last weekend of Nov to give them a proper test (please snow again!). So far they seem like fatter 'cheater' GS skis, and better both on and off piste than the L8k's. On paper at least, I don't think there is another all mountain ski that can match their performance.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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clarky999, "On paper" - you ski on paper? How weird.
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I've not skied the L8ks but have skied the mythics (slightly wider version of the same ski) and they ripped piste harder than any other all mountain ski I have tried to date and have a good rep for laying down GS turns on the groomed. They were lacking in the energy, agility and snappy feel of a race ski - very smooth and damp feeling but well worth the trade unless you really want every tiny bit of hard snow performance.
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You know it makes sense.
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Arno, Telemark Pyrenees are not far and on my way to Andorra, I have e-mailed them about demos, thanks!
Sideshow_Bob, Skied the 9X's last season with the same thing (waist) in mind, wasn't impressed though, not as quick edge to edge and the Dynastars and not as carvey (not sure that's a real word) also the snub nose had a tendency to dig in off piste. Could be my technique though...
narc, AC50 not well liked? Any idea why? I couldn't find any comments on the Forums. I agree of course, on piste the RC4's will be streets ahead, I was just considering the AC50's from an All Mountain versatility (and price) point of view.
clarky999, The Sultans are on my list to test, butnarc, I'm reluctant to go wider than 85mm in the waist.
I've found someone in the work Ski Society with a pair of RC4 RC's in a 170cm that they're going to let me try, I've tracked down the Sultans for hire locally in Toulouse, I'm waiting to hear back from Telemark Pyrenees, but no luck on the K2 X-Plorers or Heads. It will come down to a choice between:
Dynastar Speed Course or Fisher RC4 Worldcup RC Pro (current favorite)
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Dynastar Legend Sultan or other All Mountain that I can find, Atomic Crimson Ti has been recommended. Stockli, etc will probably get eliminated on price.
I’ll let you know how it turns out once there is some snow, thanks!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| gread1974 wrote: |
| narc, I'm reluctant to go wider than 85mm in the waist. |
Just detailing my experiences as the mythic is just a slightly wider version of the same ski (by 3mm). The AC50 hasn't done that well because the extra width didn't give much more in the way of soft snow performance.
I'm sure you will like the Fischers.
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Poster: A snowHead
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gread1974, have you tried to track down some 08/09 Atomic GS12's? I'm sure you'd get a good deal on them and they are awesome skis (though a little suicidal for my standard  )
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I recently tried piste skis. My faviourite alroundes were Rossignol Zeniths 7.5 or 10's would be great. My faviourite "hairy fast as hell ones" were Nordica Mach2 and Doberman Spitfire.
cheers
bob
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ok, so thanks to everyone for their input, I thought I owed it to those who contributed to let you know how it turned out. I bought the Fischer RC4 Worldcup RC Flowflex.
When I say "race" it's because they're cheater GS skis and I don't actually race in competitions, I'm talking about race carve style skiing.
After the comments on here I demo'd the 09/10 Dynastar Speed Course Ti - Not a patch on the old one in my opinion, 09/10 Dynastar Omeglass - awesome slalom ski but not what I'm after, the 09/10 Dynastar Legend Sultan 85 which were great off piste, but the comparison against a "race" ski for on piste carving was just unfair, I guess it's unreasonable fo to expect a ski like this to perform everywhere. I re-demod the Rossi 9X - still don't like, the old Atomic GS12's which were awesome, but only on perfectly groomed pistes at mach 2 and finally the Fishers.
The Fishers are a great "race" carve ski, but I would say for pure "race" performance the Atomics were better and the old 08/09 Dynastar Course (17M) the best. However, unlike the other two, the Fisher retains a little versatility that allows you to ski the whole mountain (the pisted bits anyway), they're crap in deeper snow as expected, but fortunately my local shop has the Legend Sultan 85 for hire @ €20 per day, which will satisfy me for those fresh powder days. Considering the price of rentals, any more dithering was just cgoing to cost me more money, they will have paid for themselves by the end of the season and the plan is to pick up some mid-fat (85mm+) All Mountain skis in the end of season sell off, thinking Atomic Nomad Crimson Ti's or Dynastar Legend Sultan 85.
Thanks to everyone for their support!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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gread1974, hope you enjoy them! I must try to get out on my GS planks this year - didn't ski them at all last year.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm glad my and others recommendation for the fischers worked out for you
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