December snow -when will we know ?

A snowHead

Looking to take the family skiing for the first time in December with a family operator. Wife and boys aged 8 and 3. Prices week commencing 12/13 December seem good value. ONLY want to go if there is snow as essential that first experience for kids is positive. So question is when typically does the snow fall -will likely snow cover be clear mid November or will I need to fry my wife's nerves by waiting and booking (even) later....December ??

A snowHead

MattWild, Easy - go at Easter. Much cheaper, and better weather, and softer snow.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I guess it probably depends which resorts you're considering.

If you were planning on going to somewhere 'snow-sure' like Obergurgl in Austria (I only mention this, as I was there last December) - then, personally, I'd have absolutely no hesitation in booking early.

What resorts are on your shortlist?

[Edited to correct my terrible spelling!]

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MattWild, the price on that week is generally a lot lower than others because the snow conditions are far from certain. I've seen cracking snow that week in (low) Les Gets that only fell 48 hours before I pitched up - and I've seen sounds of music scenery in other higher resorts at the same time of year.

If your wife's nerves can take it try and hold out to around 10 days out. If they can't weigh up your choices and book something that looks decent and head off with an open mind re ski conditions but committed to having an enjoyable holiday.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Folks,

Snowing in Obergurgl already - see the Hochgurgl webcam on the link below

http://ski2.intermaps.com/oetztal/index.swf?reg=zmP2&chn=zoom2&Aktuell=Lifte&lang=en

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like davidof, I've been out lunching on the terrace in a T-shirt (it's 23 degrees on the terrace at 1550m but much cooler inside because the apartments are so well insulated). Yesterday I was quite high up in Chamonix, walking in light clothing. Even it snows buckets full in November it doesn't guarantee snow in lower and medium altitude resorts in mid December. Early holidays are cheap for a good reason! A couple of years ago there was just one lift open in the whole of the Courchevel valley in mid December.

Unless you head for one of the really high resorts - in which case you risk cold and quite bleak conditions for small kids if the weather is wintry - a 12 December holiday needs to be booked late. And be aware that many resorts won't be fully open until the following weekend - their websites should make that clear. Advice to wait for Easter is good - much longer days, almost certainly better snow and weather. But if you absolutely can't wait till then, fry your nerves and book at most a week before departure.

After all it is free

MattWild, What resort are you looking at? Be fair, the piece of string is long, the question is "Is it long enough! wink

MattWild, depending on your resort shortlist, hold on for a bit before you book. The first week in Jan is also usually quite cheap (I don't know the school hols if this doesn't match up with when you can go) and would probably give you a better chance of the white stuff.

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I went to Saas Fee (an excellent beginner's resort IMO) during that week in 2006. As I remembered it snowed about a week before, by which point my nerves were shredded! Many local areas were snow free, but Saas Fee was still pretty empty. I'd say you can confidently wait until a week before to make your booking, even with this famously snow sure resort. Having said this the area was only about 70% open, but it would still meet your needs I'd imagine.

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try here, it is white and it will not be melting wink

http://www.schneegarantie.at/index.php?id=79&L=1

There will be plenty of places open around me... the valleys may not be chocolate box white but there will be plenty of lifts open in the area by then. The town's tourist board offer an all inclusive snow guaranteed holiday from the 1st December (although this does take the glacier into account as an open lift!)

You know it makes sense.

MattWild, Welcome to snowHead

's . There are places suggested above which should be OK but to answer your original question the situation should be a lot clearer by mid November. Hold off until then and then bump your thread so that those with good knowledge of different resorts and areas can give you an informed answer from the snow point of view.

Pre Xmas holidays are cheaper as the demand is lower, in the last two years a lot of Austrian and Italian resorts had as much if not more snow before Xmas than after.

As for the date, 12th December will be fine in Austria as far as resorts and lifts being open are concerned. Most will be at least partially open for a couple of weeks by then and the glaciers are open already Very Happy

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Sounds like pre christmas and austria then. Sorted.

A snowHead

Sounds like constipation.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

anderoo, I really can't remember where I read about 1 lift open in Courchevel in December - but as this report on 2006/7 from pistehors makes clear, even by Christmas only the very highest resorts were operating anything like normal.

http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/0741-retrospective-on-the-2006-2007-ski-season/

Also some photos of Courchevel on Dec 8 here

http://www.skipass.com/forums/enmontagne/stations_ski_france/savoie/sujet-76464.html

There was no snow in Moscow either!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6185345.stm

It was the warmest November and early December for absolutely ages - and when it's spring weather in winter it doesn't matter how many snow cannons there are.

Christmas/New Year 2002/3 wasn't very good either - though later there was plenty of snow.

Thing is, if you need to ski at New Year or Half Term, you have little choice but to book in advance. But for mid-December it's not necessary.

Many stations aren't fully open in mid December even if there's plenty of snow - because of lack of demand, I suppose, with mainly weekend skiers around.

I've only experienced full seasons since 2002 - just odd weeks here and there before that - but on the whole Easter has had better conditions than Christmas, though there have been a couple of cracking Christmases too. I sincerely hope Christmas 2009 is good as we have a family party with three members of the family skiing for the first time - and they won't be too impressed if it's damp and green round the edges. But we have warned them that that could be the case.

We always used to holiday first cheap week in January and there were often very anxious days watching the old teletext. And some very thin snow cover, too, some years. We always enjoyed it, though. snowHead

One bad year doesn't mean that skiing in mid December is hopeless - but a good year doesn't mean it's a dead cert, either. It's only fair that people are aware it's more of a gamble than it would be later in the season.

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After all it is free

On the other hand, a very earnest article, now rather out of date as it was written over 10 years ago, said

Cheese eating retreat monkeys! Laughing

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They opened 3 lifts at my local area (Hochfuegen, Zillertal) this weekend and are planning on running them every weekend until the official season start on 4th Dec. Obviously, no-one has control of the weather so they can't absolutely guarantee that the snow will stay, but it's looking pretty hopeful.

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ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH....

Nope, no snow in Courchevel before Xmas...

(Opening week 2007)

You know it makes sense.

MattWild, can never be sure, so book as late as you dare. High skiing preferably with a glacier will almost guarantee your chances of skiable snow.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

flangesax, vman, well meine Oesterreichischen kameraden, do you think the Frenchists are a little touchy on this subject??? Laughing

p.s. Cracking pictures Rob! Cool

A snowHead

MattWild, go to the Snowreports section and look at the pictures that people actually in the resorts are posting (or not posting as the case may be wink

) of current conditions in specific resorts, then go to the webcams post at the top of the page and compare live webcam pictures of resorts of similar altitudes from different counties and you may see some sort of a pattern emerging.

Try not to be too upset by cows chomping on the grass at low lying French resorts though Little Angel

A snowHead

For a pre-Christmas trip you will be able to find accommodation at the last minute in most resorts, so why not wait until close to the date then book your holiday in a resort which has good snow already. There's no way to guarantee good snow for early season trips if you book in advance, and anyone who advises you simply on the basis of choosing one country over another isn't giving you the best advice. I've skied a lot early season (most of the Christmases for the last dozen years or more) plus several pre-season trips and I've always had enough snow to have a good holiday, even in years when the season didn't get off to a great start. My advice would be to book late and follow the snow. If you don't want to do that choose a high resort in whatever region you decide on.

Better still, as ski recommended, consider an Easter holiday. It can get brutally cold in mid-December which isn't so great for little kids.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

robboj,

3 words. Hook, Line and Sinker. Thought a broad statement like 'go to austria' would have 'wind up' written all over it. Was surprised it took so long for the fans of cheese eating retreat monkeys to take the bait!

pam w, wink

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vman, the more people go fishing the more people who like to offer genuine advice will decide not to bother. Bad for snowHeads, bad for people who like to get informed advice.

BTW, I'm a fan of skiing, not a fan of France.

rolling eyes

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

rob@rar,

Fair point. I couldn't help myself and clearly I wasn't alone. BTW, I actually love France, the skiing there and it is also in my blood, I just prefer Austria for my snow fix.

Though my earlier broad statement was possibly crass it was also v true - Austria and esp the area I ski in has a proven track record, esp early season and given the massive investment in snowmaking, on the very rare occasion the fluffy stuff doesn't come naturally, there is plenty of back up to make sure you can ski early December.

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rob@rar, Your're quite right. I hope the OP got enough advice to help him make a decision, maybe we'll hear from him today?

One last off topic post is that I find it quite interesting how preferences for countries seem to manifest themselves on this forum regardless of the subject being debated

IMO you have Austria and France totally polarized, Switzerland sitting neutrally in the middle. Italy waiting to see who's winning before joining in and North America only getting involved if they get dragged in! Ring any historical bells???

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After all it is free

In fairness, by the time I chipped in there was already some good advice on there and a picture was developing as to what works for early/mid December and where it is riskier and better to wait before booking. Far better than just going, 'go at Easter' when someone is thinking of going mid December which is a perfectly feasible and cheap time to go.

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December snow -when will we know ?

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