 Poster: A snowHead
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In another thread, his excellency WTFH states that he does not think that there is a single ski that is good in all conditions, I would disagree, and would propose a shortlist, starting with Bandit B2s and K2 Apache Recons, that are pretty good in all conditions.
Do any other snowHeads have opinions of nominations for a ski that it pretty good in all conditions, and likewise would like to point out any percieved weaknesses in other nominations?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have slalom skis (Head WC Slalom) GS skis (Rossi 9X) and a pair of 1080s (one day I'd like to buy a fat ski to help my miserable off-piste abilities). I think the 1080s are a pretty good compromise on-piste and off. They are the skis that I use the most, and I feel comfortable at reasonably high speeds on-piste as well as playing around in the fluffy stuff off-piste.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would nominate the Salomon 1080. Some folk deride this as being a bit "soft" and wood purists sniff at foam cores but it works for me. Carves a neat line on the hardpack and bounces nicely in the soft. Goes backwards as well 
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Hah, rob beat me to it I see. Never mind, I have a pair of B3's for sale if you're interested rob........ 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Alan Craggs, I might be. Can you let me have details of them?
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Here's a second vote for B2's.
Just back from Canada after their first use, they replaced my ageing Bandit X and were 8cm shorter. No deep powder to speak of, but conditions ran from nice light new snow through heavier deeper wet snow (it rained first overnight then snowed/sleeted during the day) to the more usual very hard snow 'n ice on piste. There was no "European/Rockies" type off piste to try, but "glade" skiing was great fun - think soft snow/mogul field with trees.
Having tried them at Castleford Xscape I knew they'd initiate turns easily, but I was very impressed with the way they gripped on the harder snow and ice - much better than any of my previous ski's.
Had an hours private tuition on day 2 and was shown how to ski with a more "modern" stance. Although the changes this required were pretty minor, finding out how I'm meant to carve GS length turns was an eye opener. Suddenly the blue's and greens with the kids were fun again as I experimented with just how far I could extend the turning ski (not the downhill ski!) without running out of gas.
As they never really got used in conditions I'd really bought them for, to help in deep snow, I was more than happy in the way they coped with conditions they're not meant to excell at.
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The wife says her Atomic Metron 11s are brilliant in both soft and hard conditions. A heavier/stronger skier might prefer the B5s (same shape, but a little stiffer). A guy I bumped into a few weeks ago had been to the US trade show in Las Vegas and says that lots more skis next year will be taking a very similar shape.
And I agree that the K2 Apache Recons seem to me to be equally good all-round skis, although I can no longer out-carve the wife!
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My comment is based on a mixture of my own, and others, experience.
I'll try t explain...
The B2 is a good all-mountain ski, but it's not great in any area.
I used to have K2 Axis X Pros. They were an "All-mountain ski". They were good on piste, going through crud, and in wet powder. Put them in champagne powder, and they sank like stones. Put them on ice, and, well, keep your fingers crossed. Push them on high speed turns, and they didn't have much snap.
It's kinda like cars.
Some people drive thoroughbred sports cars - brilliant for track days, and on good road surfaces. Not so good when the road is bumpy, or going through fields.
Some people drive landrovers - excellent in fields, but not that stable going round bends at high speed. (and they don't have as high a top speed), and a lot more comfortable going along bumpy roads.
Most people drive cars which fall somewhere inbetween. They aren't the world's fastest car, but they can go fairly fast. They don't have large suspension movement, but it's enough for most normal conditions.
Yes, you can tell me about buying a Hummer, and how fast it can be (or maybe a 550bhp Range Rover), but neither of them will touch a Ferrari F1 on track, and when you do boost the road performance of the off-road vehicle, you have to sacrifice some of its off-road ability.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar.org.uk, they're B3's @ 178 cm length. Fitted with Fristchi Freerides (medium). Used for 1 DAY only, and in soft new snow - absolutely unmarked. I also have skins cut to fit (not used at all) + harscheisen. Would prefer to sell the whole lot as a package but could split. I'll post a picture on the snowMedia zone in a day or two.
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Thanks Alan, that would be the right length for me, although the bindings might be a problem as they might not adjust to the size of my boots (which I think are 295mm sole length). Unless you're in a generous mood I suspect that new skis like these would be out of my price range, and to complicate matters I won't need the skins or the harscheisen.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If it is the case that no one ski does it all, then at what point should one consider buying more than one pair of skis? How often does one have to be skiing to justify owning two, three or four pairs?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Kramer, that point came for me last season in Utah, the first day the powder was so light, and so deep, my skis, and technique, just couldn't cope. So, I bought my Pistols. When I got back home I realised I now had a problem - I had a pair of fat skis, and a pair of mid-fats. The mid-fats (Axis X Pros) were now showing their limitations. So, I sold them, and bought a pair purely for on-piste.
I'm not sure if the question is how often you need to hit the slopes, but more about where you go. If you're going to spend a lot of time in Alta, or Jackson Hole, then those resorts are justification enough (in my book). But I guess if I was skiing less than 2 weeks a year, I would struggle to justify it.
I would point out that I have no unnecessary additional expenses when going on trips (or back home) that require me to book more than a single seat on a flight , or bring back expensive presents to make up for my absence 
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Wear The Fox Hat, I am in the same position as you. Noone telling me that we have to go somewhere with nice shopping, or a pretty village either.
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You know it makes sense.
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Kramer, well for me the answer is that I have a pair of "piste skis", i.e. fitted with alpine bindings. Some years ago these might have been X-Screams or short race carvers, but these days I prefer the flexibility/adaptability of something like the 1080 which I am quite happy to take off-piste as well. These are the skis I used in Tignes last week. With an avalanche risk 4/5 most days and not having a guide, I stuck to nice bits of soft stuff off the sides when not having a blast down the pistes and the 1080's were great for both. Then I have "off piste" skis, fitted with touring bindings, for guided trips. Here other factors such as lightness come into play. B2's or Dynastar Legend 4800's would have been contenders, but I might go for 1080's again next time.
Oh, and there's the pair I use only on dry slopes. Plus snowblades of course.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Kramer wrote: |
| 1 ski does all? |
Personally I find that I need a pair. Bode Miller seems to do ok on one ski, but I'm not as good as him
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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B00thy, Fritschi bindings come in different sizes to accommodate different sole length ranges. My soles are 304mm so the mediums should be fine for you. I'm conscious of hijacking this thread so I'll move further discussion of this to the Buy and Sell Forum when I get a mo.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i hear head monsters are great all round skis as well
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B00thy, "Medium" are specified as fitting boot sole lengths 280-335mm (other sizes are S: 245-300 and XL: 325-365).
My Dynastar 8000s (with Freerides) seem to do everything I want perfectly well. Possibly not quite as stable as they could be when held flat at speed, but they really like being on their edges on piste. Off piste they just love powder (skied little else for the last two weeks), although no doubt a genuine fat (as opposed to 79mm) would be even better for the stuff you see in the extreme vids, and cut through the crud (when we managed to find some) very happily.
I expect to be using this setup for just about everything I do for the forseeable.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I rented for about 5 years with my old 201 9Ss (RIP) in storage until I got the Rossi 9X two generations ago. Basically as I wanted and couldn't find a ski that would do everything reasonably well. They and their replacement 9X Oversize do. on piste excellent, short swings fine without being the ONLY thing they'll do, bumps a delight and off piste they're wide enough to float not too bad in powder. Crud is just crud so not worth a mention.
So, I would disagree with WTFH that as I will not carry a golf bag with different skis for the different snows you encounter on a given day, my skis do everything I want them to do with a near perfect anti-correlation between demand and compromise.
I suppose I could get Pocket rockets instead and just complain all the time...
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David Murdoch, actually, the golf bag is a good analogy - you could play golf with just one club.
Yes, one ski will allow you to ski anywhere, but if you want to ski champagne powder and hard pack, you're better to have a couple of pairs, in my experience, but then again, I can only speak about myself, and the people I ski with.
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I can't say any more than try the Elan 666 for a do all go anywhere, I don't understand why nobody is giving it any coverage, is it snob value, street cred or just that it is manufactured in the "Eastern Bloc" 
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Elan make fantastic slalom skis too! Tried some at the beginning of January when little cover meant renting. Excellent.Dunno which model though. Dypcdiver, I will look out for these 666's - the number of the beast huh? Where are they made then?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dypcdiver, I've heard good things about them, but have never seen them for sale in the UK.
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Wear The Fox Hat, I really like my carvers, but I find they dive in the deep powder, of which there is an enormous amount in Japan. So I keep thinking about the fat number 2 ski everyone on the site seems to possess.
Problem is, its difficult to demo skis here, and even if I manage to find some fat ones to hire, I am not sure I will be able to judge them. What do you think, do you need to adopt any particular technique with them, or do you just do the same things? How long does it take to get the hang of them? Is there any particular set of paces one should put them through?
Or should one just read the reviews and buy a pair untried?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Dypcdiver, a friend of mine has the Elans, and really likes them as part of his quiver. They seem like nice skis.
Nogs, skiing in powder involves keeping your skis closer together, equal weighting, and make slower movements. As for what ski to go for, that is a hard one to say. When I bought mine I took advice from two good friends who had spent some time skiing with me (on and off piste) and they drew up a shortlist of 3, and gave me the pros and cons of each ski. I then checked a few reviews on each one, and bought without trying. I'm not recommending this method, but it worked for me!
As for getting the hang of them, with the right conditions, by the second run you'll be starting to get dialled in, and by the third run, you should be smiling and laughing. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It's interesting that no one has mentioned the Volkl 724 PRO.
I think this is a great ski if you are a aggressive physical skiier looking for a one shot compromise. It's superb on all piste conditions I've tried it on and will cope with powder. Would recommend anyone who is intending to take it off-piste much to consider a slightly longer ski than they might usually (I'm 5'11" and ski the 177).
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enoch,
I loved the Monster 75 in the storms of Jan, never tried them in ice which is what will trip them up if anything. Also interested in the Mad trix but haven't got on them yet.
As I haven't found the ski that does it all for me I agree with Wear The Fox Hat, but it really depends on what you ski. If you stay in resort all the time then maybe a Volkl 724 or whatever is the ski. If you only go off the back of something and spend all day on a route then a fat will be the ski.
If the manufactures are producing the ski dimensions as per the B5 next year then maybe ssh has been right all along about the Atomic and we have all missed it....- I couldn't find it for love nor money to hire and I suspect that is too expensive to stock as a hire ski. I know ssh raves about it and continues to rave about it but the Europeans seems to have largely missed it for one reason and another.
I don't think the B2 is THE ski, its nowhere near as much fun as a 9s on piste for example but if people think they have found 'their' ski, then I say good luck to them. I'm still looking.
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You know it makes sense.
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Was on my Bandit XX's for a few days this week (the ski Rossi replaced with the B2). While I could still ski powder on them they didn't get anywhere near as much float as the skis I normally use for powder (Head Mad Trix Mojo). It meant it didn't feel like powder until it was deeper. The Mojo's couldn't match the Bandits on ice patches though. A bit like going running in a pair of leather work/office shoes or driving on snow covered roads with summer tyres. Different tools (and techniques) for the job, the right tool could make life easier and give you more control and/or enjoyment.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I have two pair (Atomic M:b5 and Fischer RX8). Either ski could easily be a "one-ski quiver" and, I would argue, are different enough that it makes sense for me to have a pair of each. The more I ski the b5, the more I think it is an amazing ski. This past weekend, in everything from 15" powder to crud/chop, to hardpack, to moguls the b5 arcs and floated and pivoted and blasted through everything. The RX8, on the one day I skied them (I had them tuned Tue/Wed), were also exceptional skis. The RX8 is a bit more lively and transmits more of the snow feel to the skier. But, even in 15" in the trees, it skied effortlessly. I smiled ear-to-ear! The b5 is a bit more quiet, and blasts through everything without transmitting quite so much to the skier.
I do think that these are both quite a bit better skis than a number mentioned here. If you want float over narrow quickness, the b5. If you want narrow quickness over float, the RX8. Either could be my only ski. But I really like having both! 
I will add that I think I am skiing better than ever before in my life. And, most of the time this weekend, it was on the M:b5s. Skier I was guiding and other guides both commented on my carved turns and clean skiing in moguls, trees, and groomed. I think it's at least partially due to the skis...
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Poster: A snowHead
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ssh,
How much lighter is the RX8 than the B5 (carrying weight)?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DB wrote: |
ssh,
How much lighter is the RX8 than the B5 (carrying weight)? |
Probably 10lbs the pair! Pretty big difference. I noticed the weight of the Atomics only in two instances: First, whenever I put them on my shoulder to walk somewhere. Second, when I slipped and fell on an icy sidewalk near the ski school locker room; my b5s flew out of my hands and landed on my head!  Fortunately, I was wearing my helmet at the time! Otherwise, I think I would have been knocked cold!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The old x-scream series do it for me. Not the best at anything, but pretty good at everything. Don't get on that well with 1080s, think they are better for slightly lighter skiers than me (though I'm under 14st). Now started skiing all mountain on some 170 Rossi 9s; a good challenge off piste, but superb in icy couloirs, quite hard to ski in moguls and not the best for jumping, the hair-shirt of freeride equipment!
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Wear The Fox Hat, thanks for your very useful reply. I apologize for still being slightly off the thread, but, supposing one's number one ski does most things on piste and bumps pretty well, how wide should one go for the second. Your pistols are I believe up in the mid-90's, but the range is huge, from 75 out well over 100. Any suggestions?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Nogs, my number one ski handles pistes phenomenally, and bumps very well (although my technique in them isn't as good), so the reason for my Pistols is for 80% or more off piste (where the other 20% is the distance you have to travel to/from the lifts to get to the powder)
So, at 95mm they are good enough for that. If I was to move to Utah, I'd probably change them in a few years (when my technique will have improved) to something in the 105+ size, but I'm not there yet...
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Nogs, it really depends on how much and how deep the powder is that you'll be skiing. If you're skiing bottomless powder virtually every day, your skis could easily be 100mm (see Volkl Explosiv or Atomic Big Daddy, for example). If not, however, you will find that the extra width simply diminishes the versatility of the skis.
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Thanks, Wear The Fox Hat, and ssh, for helpful advice.
This year, of the five places we've been so far, there has been a lot of bottomless snow at the top at two and I really could not handle it at all. Another trip was knee deep powder and I was okay, but felt a bit insecure.
I'll keep my 5 stars for the groomed, and the bumps, but I would like a number 2 so I could learn to enjoy the deep stuff too.
Of course, I hope the day will come where I can fly through the wild areas as they do on the maggot site, this is a first step.
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Nogs,
Maybe look for a ski around 80-85m at the waist. This will be skiable in deep snow and if it isn't don't look too hard at the ski. Maybe a lesson would be money better spent. The wider you go will compromise the skis abilty on the piste, and you may not like it all in that situation but crud bashing will be so much easier.
IMO there will be a compromise and I accept this as the price for not carrying 2 pair of skis
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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May I toss into the mix the Dynamic VR21 - particularly for a lighter weight skier (like myself). 76mm waist, good edge hold on-piste, seems to float alright off.
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Snow Addict, welcome to snowHeads.
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FAQ
