ALTITUDE SICKNESS/ALTITUDE BODY COMPLAINTS

A snowHead

Do any SnowHead comrades have any data, or pointers on Altitude Sickness/Altitude Body Complaints!!

Lack of sleep, nose bleeds & deep chest coughs after 4-5 days being the worst complaints from some of our group. Normally staying at 2100M altidute. Is there any information available on this phenomona? Sad

A snowHead

Bernard, doubltess our favourite gasman will turn up with some words of advice. Meanwhile, I see that accimitisation is can be a cure. Best stay the season in the mountains - perhaps going somewhere like Chatel to start, then Arc 1650, then Courchevel. Then were you are. Hey, I am here to help Very Happy

Actually, from what I have seen, progressive acclimitisation is the thing, for those who may have a problem. If members of your group are having trouble, right now, in resort, I'd suggest seeing the local docs.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Bernard Condon,

Lack of sleep and a cough would be relatively normal at that height but not nose bleeds, deep chest coughs etc in my experience.
Don't recommend going to the US as some of the Rockies resorts lodge at 9600 ft...!! You need over a week to cope with the altitude and jet lag at that height..!!

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Bernard Condon, I don't get nosebleeds, but I do get bloody bogeys. What helps with that is having a humidifier in your bedroom.
Also, drink more water.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I always have a tumbler of water in the room and a window open at night. That helps me sleep better.

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Bernard Condon: "Lack of sleep, nose bleeds & deep chest coughs" An every day story of skiing folk:
” About 20 per cent of people experience mild symptoms at altitudes between 2200 and 2500m above sea level. Many ski resorts are found at these altitudes”
Lack of sleep goes with the territory. (ref 1. ; ref. 2.) Lots of theories. It's probably part of the Altitude Syndrome. Hotel/chalet rooms are often over-heated with a dry atmosphere (en-suite bathrooms help a lot). Trying to treat this with alcohol is usually a mistake. I note so many people finishing off their (late) dinner with coffee. Caffeine is not a hypnotic - you would do much better with a large exotic cigar. I take Zolpidem.

Nose bleeds are common. The altitude may aggravate the situation, but a major cause seems to be the dry air, as the problem is also prevalent in the Antarctic: "The nose's internal lining creates extra mucous to protect itself. That cakes up and when regularly irritated causes bleeding. Silva advocates humidifiers by the bed and nasal saline solution. And no picking."

Deep chest coughs are also common. I noticed a number of the World Cup skiers on Ski Sunday had "flu". There is a syndrome know as "High altitude bronchitis". But I don't think all that time spent in crowded smokey bars helps much either.

So, if you do happen to find yourself in a ski resort and don't want to suffer "Lack of sleep, nose bleeds & deep chest coughs":
1. Avoid coffee and alcohol.
2. Avoid that nasty cold dry air, so don’t go outside (no skiing).
3. Avoid close contact with others, no smoking and no smokey bars (so only eat in)
Enjoy your lovely holiday! Twisted Evil

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JT, I have historically soaked the shower mat and placed it on a warm bathroom radiator with bathroom door open and haven't had any major problems. I do suffer from the odd nose bleed though, but two of my normal ski companions are normally almost grounded by day 5. Very little sleep, really bad chests and racking coughs. I did think that there might be some written information with tips to avoid or at least mitigate the worst effects. The basics that I have heard are; plenty of water on travel day, no coffee or alcohol. I do try!!! I do drink plenty of water, But I do love my coffee too and first night in resort usually means meeting friends etc, whom may not have seen for a year. Result = bang goes the alcohol refrain. Any other heplers?

After all it is free

Jonpim, You must have just posted a nano second before me. Excellent post & esp. links - Thanks!

Bernard Condon,

Good idea with towel but my gloves or washing get there first..!!

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Only Tuesdays & Thursdays surely?????

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fill the bath with water and leave it full overnight.

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Other symtoms include breathing difficulty, dizziness and headaches. I experienced these when I climbed Mount Kinabalu in Borneo before Christmas, the summit is 4095m. I would have coped better if I had stayed a day at a lower altitude but I hadn't the time. snowHead

Of course, Antartica's pretty high in places as well.

You know it makes sense.

One for the ladies here too, my erm 'monthlys' always come back in resort....even if I had them the week before we go out to ski, the damn thing is always back within 3 days at altitude.

Beware ladies who havent skied before and take something with you!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Acting on the gasman's advice in Another Place, I went to my friendly doc (who also skis) and got some sleeping tablets prescribed for use just on skiing holidays. Result, instead of getting just 4 hours sleep if I was lucky per night, I got the full whack each time. I was allowed 2 tablets per dose, but found I needed one only per night. A note of caution, I understand sleeping tablets can become addictive. I am using mine for skiing holidays only. They are, of course, available only on prescription.

A snowHead

I have found generic anti-histamines useful for sleeping (they are sold in the US as sleep-aids) - esp. good for transatlantic flights. They won't send you to sleep, but if you can relax a little, they'll often help you go under sleep for a decent amount of time. Obviously don't get the "non-drowsy" formulas, check you're okay to take them and I don't know if they can be habit forming, so it might be worth checking that out, too.

A snowHead

This is a subject of real interest to me, and one I've asked questions on before. It's interesting to hear others suffering with similar complaints. I was in Cervinia 2 weeks ago and had about 2 hours sleep per night at best - I really struggled and clearly it puts a real downer on the week. I also felt breathless during the night at times. However even with the really high altitude this time I avoided any bloody / bleeding nose symptoms - but in doing so I was drinking probably a good 4 litres of water per day.

I did try a few preventative things like :

- taking the bag out of the bin in the bathroom filling it half way with water, damping a towel, placing one end in the bin and the other on a radiator
- Running the shower on full heat for an hour before going to bed
- filling a bath with hot water before going to bed
- opening the window at times whilst doing one or more of the above!

Basically nothing really worked. I usually got off to sleep quickly enough but would then wake up after an hour and that would be it for most of the night! The only thing that seemed to help was taking a couple of paracetemol - I think that just calmed me down, as I was getting quite uptight about the whole thing. It was terrible as sometimes we were in bed at 9:30 and I was up and prowling about by 11:00!!!

It did strike me that the only thing left for it was sleeping tablets and I will look into this next time. However I now remember that I used to try anti-histamines to help me sleep on transatlantic flights too - and they were relatively helpful maybe I should give this one more go - I had since replaced that tactic with Diazapam - but don't tell anyone!!! it works a treat though!! snowHead

What are humidifiers? Are they plug-in devices??

Adam.

PS: I think the real solution is to invent some sea level skiing!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I’ve been following this with interest, I never used to have a problem at altitude (other than just breathing), but last November in La Roz I suddenly started getting real pain in my right eye socket and blood from my tearduct. Kept happening even when I got home, saw the GP and got sent straight up to ENT. Lots of blood tests and scans later (including being scared poopless in the meantime ‘cos of some family history) it turns out that a tiny piece of loose bone from an old injury ruptured a sinus and blew out the tearduct valve in my nose. It’s ok but I’ve got to look after it and when I blow my nose there are some ‘interesting’ side effects (I haven’t explored the full potential to nauseate/terrify young children yet)
But back to the subject, my recent trip to Vallandry brought to light all the symptoms in the tread. Loads of red bogies, sinus pain that gets worse the higher I go and really crap sleeping patterns.
So I’ve got to thank you guys for all the advice some of which I’ll give a try to on the next outing, Though Fruity’s recommendation to be prepared is interesting, I think the strings might just get tangled in my ‘tash.

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I always wake up with a throat like a desert as well. Has anyone tried taking a humidifier with them, Bionaire BWM5075 Warm Mist Humidifier with Nightlight £25 at amazon.co.uk?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Adam Holt, On passing that well known High Street, pharmacy & retailer which rhymes with "Hoots", I discovered that they stock quite a large selection of herbal based sleeping potions.. Valerian, etc, etc, so they may be worth a visit. They are light on the system - if taken in moderation! Also they will have a pharmacist to advise, especially if you are taking any other medicines (Quite important with herbal based products). We don't want you running amock in Europe! Good luck.

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Fruity multiply by 6 and you have a picture of my 1995 Breckenridge trip, mood swings and all. The other guy and I had to diregard the alcohol warnings.

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I would agree with the advice above. One problem with hypnotics (temazepam, benzodiazepines, and the "Z drugs"), is not only are they extremely addictive, but they also give you a hangover effect, and can impair your judgement and abilities the next day, this is doubly true if you consume alcohol within 24 hours of taking them. I do use them myself, but only to combat jet-lag on long haul flights, to get my sleeping pattern (circadian rhythm) in sync with where I am going to.

The cycle problems are very common at a higher altitude, and for this reason most of the female staff in ski resorts are well advised to go on the pill.

After all it is free

comprex, absolutely. I was so fed up when it arrived, I nearly pushed my hubby down a black. Without skis. Toofy Grin

The cycle problems are very common at a higher altitude, and for this reason most of the female staff in ski resorts are well advised to go on the pill.[/quote]

ROFLMAO. Are u SURE thats the reason!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!!

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What altitude have you guys experienced these problems?

I've been skiing a few times but never experienced anything like what you have. I always get a full nights sleep and never get problems with coughs or nose bleeds.

I've been mainly to low resorts < 1500m but I'm starting to get closer to 2000m+ mark now, are these problems I should be aware and planning to combat before going away?

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albeemish, As per initial post - staying at 2100M altitude and skiing up to 3400M. A great many resorts, i.e where the actual hotels, apartments etc., are normally located much lower, as you mention 1500M etc. I'm not sure if there are any hard and fast rules as to whether you will be affected or not. I certainly know a lot of people who are not. I am very mildly affected after say 5 days, but some friends are severely affected after 5 days or so. I shall certainly take some advice from the many useful links posted above, but not all of it!!

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Bernard Condon, Go on tell us . . . Imodium or tampon . . . you'll tell us which is quicker and more effective . . . Not a joke, an acquaintance was kept alive during dysentery by the careful application of a 'ladies' product. Dehydration will kill you quicker than starvation.

Bernard Condon, I recently stayed at 1500m, and the thick nasal secretions were a problem, but also on day 4 felt awful, nauseous, etc and ended up not skiing. One of the children suffers quite badly(funnily enough, the fittest most active one), the other not at all.

You know it makes sense.

Masque, Stick to the beer, or take more medication!! I imagine the I would be arrested and Sectioned under the Mental Health legislation, if I went around sporting a tampon from each nostril!
Helen Beaumont, It really seems a lottery as to who becomes affected - of course some symptoms may not be related to altitude, drinking water, food and hygiene can all be factors in feeling unwell. A particular problem and I must choose my words carefully this time, can be picking up minute 'ORGANISMS' from the snow on ones hands, undoing boots at lunchtime par example and then transferring to the body during eating. These can have a nasty effect, especially in hot conditions. Washing hands religiously before eating etc, is the only prevention. Of course a 'Snow Headbutting Fall Exercise' can negate any handwashing! Especially if snowploughing with ones face!

My mentioning 'Chosing my words carefully this time', relates to a serious speech in apartment whilst I was on Chef duty, preparing dinner. I did have some wine to drink, but only in moderation of course. I wanted to warn my skiing companions of the dangers of said Organisms, but in my haste said, "You do know that you can get orgasms from touching your boots." The reaction was splurting of wine and hysterical behaviour more associated with epileptic fits. I became the butt of many cruel jibes as a result, as well as demonstrations on the snow and I have not lived that down to this present day.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Bernard Condon, So . . . you use Imodium for a nasal drip . . . hmmm OK. One per nostril?

A snowHead

With regard to nose irritation/dryness/dripping/bleeding, it is known that altitude has an effect on nasal mucociliary clearance and on ion transport in the nasal lining Puzzled

, both of which would affect the quantity and consistency of secretions. It is also known that altitude produces a host of changes to the nasal lining visible under a microscope. This may be due to reduced humidity/oxygen levels/temperature or something else.

What can you do? Ski in a duvet at sea level with a humidified oxygen tank on your back, a straw in your mouth leading to an isotonic fluid replacement drink filled Camelbak, with an Imodium up @ nostril. Cool

No seriously, I guess stay well hydrated, humidify the air you breathe (at least what you might have some control over), don't pick your nose or try to blow all your sinuses out through your nose, wipe it only gently, try using a small coating of Vaseline(petroleum jelly) in the nose. If things get bad, go see a snot-doc. Very Happy

A snowHead

When I ski at altitude I get very tired, and my knees always hurt. Seriously a lot of kids in our party suffered severe nosebleeds

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I'm not usually as badly affected as I was this time, and certainly wasn't staying high. Eldest child almost always has a 'sicky' day or a lie-in during the holiday , mainly I think due to altitude. he suffered very bad nosebleeds in Flaine, and in Banff, was extremely disappointed to end up in the sled when we went mushing with Mum riding on the back. ANd that was despite being there for over a week by then.

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Frosty the Snowman, lack of O2 will make you tired more quickly and it could also make your knees ache. However, you can acclimatise to an extent in 3days or so. Kids' noses are often intrinsically more prone to bleeding and they tend to pick more.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

slikedges,

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Frosty the Snowman, That'd do it too! wink

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After all it is free

Helen Beaumont, It's thought that pretty much anything that happens to the lung lining happens to nose lining too, so (depending on age) if he's on a long term brown inhaler, you might want to ask your GP about a similar thing as a nose spray for bunged-up-ness. Unfortunately these sprays can increase bleeding, so a little vaseline might help. BTW an alternative to picking the nose is Sterimar saline nasal wash. snowHead

slikedges, he's no longer on any medication for his asthma, only a salbutamol for emergency use. He has a nasal spray too, as he gets hayfever in the Summer.

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albeemish, I stayed at about 2100m as well and skied to 3900, but mainly between 2500 - 3500. I had the sleep problems in Soldeu in Andorra last year also. It is clearly lower with the village somewhere around 1700 and the ski ceiling at just over 2500 I think.

Help!!

ALTITUDE SICKNESS/ALTITUDE BODY COMPLAINTS

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