 Poster: A snowHead
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I needs some tips before I go out tomorrow please? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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relax, make fluid movements, turn in the soft stuff. and smile.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Why is it that as someone who can parallel turn I ended up doing snowploughs? Should I have tried to step turn? I found it very difficult transferring some of my weight from one ski to the other and turning through my ankles - does that make sense?
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I don't claim expertise in this Lorraine - far from it!- but from experience I would comment thus:- when starting to learn powder (even more so than on piste) it's crucial to find a slope that doesn't cause any psychological problems - i.e. you should be happy to just run straight down the fall line with skis parallel so you can feel what the snow is doing (i.e. probably slowing you down). If you feel intimidated you will try and force a turn and that's where it will go wrong.
Once you have a feel for the snow try some experiments. A gentle "pedalling" action (i.e. a very slight increase of pressure on one ski) will tend to start you turning - again, any "gross" movements or "transfers of weight" will tend to overcook things and throw you out of balance, over you go -.
Try to gently steer both skis where you want to go, the snow will build under the skis and will surprise you by how much you turn. Any attempt to "carve" the turns by using the dynamic (some might say aggressive) knee or hip angulation that you would use on hardpack will again tend to overcook things and lead to disaster - most often you will be thrown to the outside of the turn and headplant.
If you ended up doing snowplough then I would guess that you either didn't have enough speed and couldn't get a parallel turn to work or you had too much speed for your comfort and reverted to a "safe mode".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just a few opinions from another person that hasn't mastered powder fully yet but doesn't get so much of a spanking these days 
The mistakes we make on piste normally result is some sort of skid. Side slipping/skidding is possible in powder but very difficult, most (inc me) eat powder when the skis go sideways.
Tips
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Stand in the middle of the ski.
Too much pressure on the tips = dive, dive, dive, head plant.
Too much pressure on the tails = increasing speed, loss of control, ineffective steering from the back then the need to remove snow from those areas piste skiing doesn't reach. Some people say lean back in powder, tipping the foot back (heel down) but trying to maintain equal pressure on the middle of both skis is perhaps a better description.
A snow plough in powder is normally the result of too much weight on the outside ski. The outside ski bends but the inside ski just gets caught up. Try to weight the skis more evenly. I concentrate more on bending the inside ski when in powder as the outside ski tends to follow the inside one. The stance you can get away with is all a factor of the snow consistency, your speed, your weight and the float of your skis. (e.g. Inexperienced people get away with heli-skiing and wider stances when using super fat ca 110mm+ waist skis).
Get a little bit of speed and then get the rhythm going. It's a slow bounce and things take longer than on the piste, almost like skiing in slow motion. Use the pressure to bend the skis and turn - don't twist the skis. Keep the body facing pretty much down the hill.
I find a good exercise is to find a gentle piste. Make turns straight down the fall line with knees together, feet slighty apart but not letting the body turn off the fall line. You should leave a long draw-out curve down the piste. Try to work the skis as if they were twins doing the same thing maintaining the same turning tempo.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks chaps, the even pressure advice definately makes sense as does the explanation of my inadvertant snowploughs, on reflection I was probably trying to carve too forcefully and needed to relax abit and let the turn happen more slowly. If (and its a big if) there is enough tomorrow after work I'll have another go  .
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DB, excellent advice!
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Lorraine,
Both DB and Alan make some very good points.
My instructor at the Epicski Academy was Rob Sogard, who is the trainer of the US Demo team. He’s also a local of Snowbird, Utah, so gets to ski a fair share of powder. His tips were very helpful to me, and I thought they would reinforce and/or complement usefully what was said above.
1. Balance. Rob started out by focusing on fore-aft balance. His technique to find the right position in powder (you can do this at home, too): start by standing up tall on your skis. Now lean forward, keeping your body straight (i.e. no bending at the waist) as far as you will go (ok, don’t do it without warming up, we don’t want any muscles or tendons pulled!). You should feel your shins pressuring the boot tongues. Now, without changing the angle of the lower leg, start sitting back by bending your knees. Stop when you feel your weight on your heels, but your shins still pressuring the boot tongues. That is your position to ski powder.
Helpful tip to maintain this position while skiing: curl up your toes (this is slightly counterintuitive, most people tend to grip with their toes as they gather up speed). Also, don’t forget you should always apply pressure to the boot tongues with your shins.
As for overall and lateral balance, a useful exercise is to do a lot of traversing in powder and in crud / cut-up snow.
2. Stance: Rob’s advice was that, unless we are top freeskiers, we’ll do better with a narrow stance in powder. The main reason is that you avoid hitting different snow with your two skis, which could force them on divergent paths.
3. Leg action: your legs should flex and extend together. This is different than carving on the groomed (where there is a pedal action, with one leg extending while the other one flexes).
4. Think of your skis as forming a platform – they should act together, not independently.
5. Let the snow dictate your turns. In a turn, snow will build up under the platform formed by the skis and will force them to turn and come underneath you – and then flow into the next turn. As said above, it’s a very flowing, slowed-down process, no sudden movements. You will end up making medium or large radius turns, which is fine. Alan’s advice is very useful here: start out on a gentle slope where you know you could, if need be, handle a straight run downhill. It takes a bit of patience and trust to wait for the skis to make the turn in powder, and those are in short supply when you are gathering too much speed for your liking.
6. "Absorb". Don’t try to force the turn by steering, over-rotating or by moving up and down. You won’t be able to do much of the former two, and while you can redirect your skis by a sort of a jump turn, it’s very tiresome (trust me, I’ve done it). Instead, think of retracting your legs as the turn comes to a finish and skis come up underneath you, and then extending them into the next turn.
That’s about it. I hope I haven’t misrepresented Rob or forgotten anything crucial. (It’s worth pointing out that, as Rob also acknowledged, there can be different ways to ski powder: one of the other instructors, a former ski movie star, used a lifting of the inside foot to initiate the turn, whereas one of the assistant instructor used more of a wide-stance, carving technique).
If you PM me with your e-mail, I have a short clip of Rob doing some turns in powder. Until then, you can check below to see if I follow my own advice!
http://www.websurd.com/epic2004/video/cedric.wmv
Please note I've disabled my standard signature underneath, as I felt it didn't go well with the tone of my post 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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oh, I just saw that Lorraine already went skiing. Nevermind, she might have access to a computer over there, or this post may be useful to others.
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Cedric - Lorraine has been ski=ing in Northumberland!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We even get electricity at weekends now - well if there is enough diesel for the generator! 
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Electricity? I've heard that we're supposed to be getting wired up for that sometime this year. My hamster's looking forward to it - he's knackered powering my computer all day long! (Have to give the haggis a rest every other day)
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You know it makes sense.
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Is it easier to ski powder with slightly shorter skis ( I'm thinking particualrly of turns where i always come acropper)?!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ann, the consensus is that wider and longer skis are better in powder. They offer more flotation so you stay on top rather than sinking.
It may be that you're trying to force your turns by rotating your skis or hurrying the upper body movement into the turn before the skis have time to catch up. That could put you out of balance, causing those falls. Remember to 'flow' and be more patient. (now that I think of it, that may be one reason why many skiers who can go down reds and blacks have trouble in powder - certain defensive movements which cannot be used when the snow gets deep).
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Poster: A snowHead
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Patience, patience, patience! Let the snow turn the skis instead of turning them yourself.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What about those people you see on films who seem to be jumping down the fall-line through powder? Does that just look like they're forcing the turns, or is it different skiing?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skanky, you can certainly do that. But, it's a lot more work than you need to do. Usually these days, the skis will do that for you (they decamber and then spring back, lifting you as they do).
Again, the key to most turns is to let the snow turn the skis instead of turning them yourself. Of course, you do shape the turn a bit with leg/foot rotation.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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But it looks the same? I mean you know the wavy-line tracks straight down an off-piste powder slope? That's done doing it this way? Or is that skiing a certain way for effect? Not that that's necessarily what I'm aiming for (unless that is what I'm aiming for  )...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skanky, the tracks you leave will be the same, but you'll leave a lot more of them before you'll collapse from exhaustion!
I also think that it looks better to ski that way. Think about it: do you really want to be jack-rabbiting all over the slope, or just make nice, smooth turns from summit to base?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Smooth turns.
On big twin tips, so you create massive rooster tails, and guarantee that no one will be following close behind you.
Admitedly, I kept my powder skis short(ish) at 179, this is cause I knew I'd be skiing them on piste from time to time as well, and long, fat skis are not nice on piste.
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Thanks ssh, I think it shows how examples are useful to show how the theory looks in practise (did that sentence make sense?). It's easy to explain what you see in your head, but the reverse process for the other person can be difficult.
WTFH - they'd probably only physically fit on the Cervinia runs, anyway. 
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skanky, yep. Hard to describe. I don't have any videos of me, however. Perhaps WTFH or Cedric will point you to theirs...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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there's a link to a video of me in my long post above. Not an instructor so take whatever's good from it and try to spot what's bad.
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| Cedric wrote: |
| there's a link to a video of me in my long post above. Not an instructor so take whatever's good from it and try to spot what's bad. |
I forgot you had posted that in this thread! Sorry, Cedric!
I like the first video in the three to show what I'm describing. See how Cedric makes very smooth initiation without a lot of up-down? Doesn't it look easy and efficient? It is!
In later versions, he slows down his turns and increases their radius. I wonder if he's getting tired in the last video, since his turns seem more forced.
The point, though, is that his first series of turns are clearly smooth, with good progressive flexion/extension, but not a lot of dramatic up/down.
Nice, Cedric!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sorry, I'd read that but not registered the video link. Probably read it too quickly.
Okay, I can sort of see it, except it looks like he's making tighter turns than I tend to do (except on very steep pistes - remember pistes are all I've done)....problem is, I'm not likely (unless I can get to Tahoe in April) to get on the slopes again until next winter, and I sort of want to see what I think I'm doing, what I think I should be doing and check that against what I actually do.
Might have to revisit this in 9 months time (let it gestate  )
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks, ssh!
The worse turns in the last video were due to a combination of getting a bit tired, being for some reason more camera-aware and, last but not least, a steeper pitch.
(loads of analysis of this video on epicski, by the way, all very useful).
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Yes, I saw the analysis there. I haven't been over there much, lately. Got behind! And too much happening here!
Still, love those turns. Hope to make some with you at the next ESA event. Spoke with Ric R. at length after my exam on Monday...
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You know it makes sense.
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Cedric, we need a little "green with envy" smilie for me to use
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skanky, look at his first series of turns and compare to the last. Look at the difference. That should help.
In the first series, he's very patient, even though they are short. He lets the snow turn the skis instead of leap-and-force as he does in some of the last series. Do you see the difference?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sort of, though at the end some of those leaps seem to be to avoid trees.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 4-03-04 22:01; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cedric, Bah, the video was no fun at all, you could at least have included one sequence ending up with you eating some snow
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I ate snow on that holiday but none of it while on tape. Cunning . Come on PG, I almost rode a tree in that video!
I have posted here, though, a good video where I nearly hit a rock wall as my skis sped off from undeneath me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Cedric, posted where?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ssh, there's a link in Cedric's post higher up the page.
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Ah! Yes, I remember that one!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Has anyone ever tried the "windscreen wiper" technique that the Japanese use to ski powder?
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um no.
What is it?
When I ski pow, I try to float as much as possible, and enjoy myself. Don't want to get stopped at the lift queue by someone wanting to clean my goggles...
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FAQ
