 Poster: A snowHead
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What causes carver skis to wobble/skitter at high speed when travelling near-enough straight ?
Only notice it if in a tuck and pushing it hard.
Could it be for/aft balance, is the spring going, or should I simply slow down a bit  ?
Skis Blizzard SLK 171cm, Race Carver. Don't have fine detail of ski dimensions to hand, but they're not a curvy as most carvers I see, and have a fairly narrow waist.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The problem with carvers is travelling in a straight line, they want to carve even if it's only a very gentle arc when you go in a straight line the bases are flat but the edges will rub against any tiny protrusion/uneveness in the psite and cause the base to slide about giving the wobble effect, old style straight skis did not have this effect as the sides were parrallel which I suspect is why ski jumpers and those attempting the flying Km still use straight skis, the only way arround it is to edge a little more which will stop the wobble unfortunately it is very difficult to do whilst in the tuck 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ahhh... and many thanks.
That would explain why it goes away when I turn corners in a tuck. Taught myself this trick at Davos couple of weeks back (haven't had a 'paid for' lesson since a school trip, when I was 12 !). You're right, it's not easy... produces thigh-burn quickly and appears to require a lot of strength; stopping suddenly from a tuck is fun though - and produces spectacular sprays of snow 
Next question - my sister (who's had a lot of lessons) reckons the lower leg on a turn should be extended straight - I think a little bend is needed to absorb shock. Who's correct, or is it a case of 'horses for courses' ?
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Personally I'd go with the slight bend but I have used full leg extension on steeper slopes so I guess it's horses for courses
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Austin7, she's wrong if she means locking the knee. I'm not sure it's possible to lock out your knee due to angle your ankle is kept at by the boot. It certainly won't be comfortable or productive in a turn.
If you watch instructors on the slopes you'll often see them extend legs and body as they initiate a turn and then crouch to complete the turn. They over emphasise the movements it to show the novices but the principle is correct. No locking of limbs takes place.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Surely you'd never want to lock your knees - your joints would go though hell. If you're knees are not quick locked, you're quads and other muscles take the strain (and there can be a fair bit of that if you're carving heavily at speed). If your knees are locked, surely your tendons and knee joint will take that strain instead?
Cannot be good!
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I agree carver wobble is a pain - literally...the bruise on my knee is now a nice shade of yellow ( 2 weeks after the event). Having just negotiated a particularly difficult run, to celebrate, I shussed faster than I could/should on the flat to the lift (the run at this point was basically 'green'). I hit some ripples in the piste, perpendicular to my direction of travel and couldn't press down hard enough to control the skis they were flapping about so much. Boy did I take off!! I hit the ground once and just bounced on like a ragdoll or a pebble on a pond. When I finally landed I didn't know what day it was. My husband thought I'd broken my neck and my charming kids fell about laughing and all I got all day was "how embarressing can you get, wiping out on a green run!" Even worse it was right under the lift 
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Going straight sounds plain lazy to me 
Why go straight when carving is so much more fun. Gently rocking from one edge to the other keeps you running in smooth arcs and feels faster because of the centrifugal/acceleration force.
I still have my 210cm straight skis, haven't been tempted to use them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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austin7, back to the wobble thing, it's true though that the fitter you are, the more technically adept, the less of a problem it is! So the obvious solution is.... turning more often  (works for me)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I shall bow to ise's comment whilst it never happened to me undoubtedly with certain skis it could, however it does seem more noticeable with carvers
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You're correct that it's the sidecut, so old slaloms would do it more than DH boards. New ones do it a lot more.
If you learn to tip the skis with ankle movement (instead of legs), you can actually make slight carves with very little change in leg articulation. This may help with the fatigue.
Regarding outside leg, it can get pretty close to straight, but you obviously don't want to lock out.
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What wobble (straitline the reds)?
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You know it makes sense.
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Masque, Have you been away? And what do you think of Joe Royle? OK maybe that belongs on other stuff.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Agree entirely with the idea of not locking the knee - sister didn't make it clear if leg was straightened or locked - locking it sounded (and still does) just plain daft.
As for wobble - I guess I need to :
improve technique
tune edges
build up leg strength
learn to make some very slight carves
Which I guess means 15 minutes with an edge file - and more skiing !! Hurrah
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Poster: A snowHead
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Austin.... haven't read the whole thread but I think carvers need to be edged. keep them on edge and they'll be happy. btw I like the smileys but are we allowed to say  in here?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks guys - very enlightening! So pleased to hear there is such a thing as "carver wobble" - I always thought it was just me having a combination of hangover verses blonde moment!
Will have to think about the top tips next time I'm on the planks.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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He He! I’m a boarder and I’m giving you my ‘vast’ experience of three days (out of 4 total and a broken leg in 1962) on skis. Last week it was interesting to compare the different ‘feel’ of straightlining runs on skis.
On a board with NO pintail (narrower effective tail width than nose), as long as the centre of mass is over the lead foot and well past the board centre, the board will track cleanly on the flat, even if the edge angles are near to ski dimensions. However pintail boards promote a back-foot flutter as the narrow tail ‘hunts’ for the trackline, which feels unstable and that’s why you’ll see a fast boarder on the piste rolling his/her hips to move the board onto alternate edges in fast narrow arcs, it makes the board stable and less reactive to vagaries in piste condition.
How does this relate to skis? Well I noticed that both the skis I used (K2 carvers about 180cm and some Dynastar twin tips) had ‘pintail’ and on the flat, both had the desire to flap around independently of each other and my input. This did reduce as I relaxed down into my bindings (oops, sorry boots) and moved my centre on mass well past my toes, then they felt less unstable. It was when I dropped into a very forward racing crouch things changed, Hooohooo! As people crouch down their natural body dynamics move their feet out to balance points (it’s a fight or flight thing) with the feet spread approximately the distance between the tip of your middle finger and the end of your elbow, but it also means that you naturally weight/set the inner edges slightly, SOLID AS A ROCK right up to terminal velocity (for me, about 45/50 mph on a shallow red/steep blue) and very comfortable to just roll the hips into the fall line and articulate the ankles to set the edge. It’s very stable and very controllable. Don’t get me wrong I’ve a shed-load to learn (in both disciplines) but it looks as if narrow edge to edge carving with your centre of mass following the track-line, will eliminate the “wobble”.
Lastly, it’s obvious that modern skis are designed with the assistance of great skiers, is it possible that we’re not trying hard enough to use their products correctly and that it needs 11 months preparation in a gym to use today’s ski technology properly? 
(very many thanks to David Last for his knowledge, time, patience and tolerance toward a skanky boarder and his mates)
It’s gonna be difficult for me to be abusive toward skiers now, but I’m still carrying a shotgun in my backpack for the muppets that screw up the powder! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Nothing wrong with being skanky
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Masque,
Well done, and a good description.
One thing that may be causing people problems with carving skis is having too narrow a stance (from the old 60s/70s idea of keeping your legs locked together) When the stance is too narrow, your boots can pivot off each other, which really doesn't help.
With your legs in a more natural/neutral position, it's a lot easier to keep the skis stable at speed. Also, the idea of going from edge to edge helps in keeping speed up and remaining stable - if you go back to the principle of old straight skis - they were fast going straight because they were narrow - so a lower surface area in contact with the snow, lower friction, etc. Well, what is narrower than an edge?
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