 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Perhaps admin, should go back and re-negotiate for the EOSB 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A good report and accurate IMO. Tour Op numbers are hugely down (I'm hearing 25-30% off target among the big boys, small specialists faring better) and as France represents half the UK market, they must be really worrying out there. Not only are numbers down overall but lots of people are deserting France for Italy/Austria/Andorra etc where they feel they'll get more bangs for their buck. And that sentiment doesn't only apply to UK visitors of course. On top of our own experience, we probably all know people who came home from France last winter and talked about almost nothing but the sky high bar/restaurant/ski school/lift pass prices and vowed to go elsewhere this winter. This is the French rip off mentality coming home to roost and hopefully it'll wake them up a bit.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's obviously a combination of Hemel Hempstead and Aviemore for me again this winter
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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By the way - before any French restaurateurs in Hemel or Aviemore get excited, I'm avoiding them on account of Swiller's analysis
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I think the problem is one of total cost, especially with the way the euro has gone. In somewhere like St. Anton you can easily pay 150 quid or more for decent kit hire and then you're looking at close to £220 for the lift pass (7 day) so that's close to £400 if that's on top of a package price of £600 (which is a good deal) then you've already broken the £1,000 barrier excluding any mountain eats or beers.
To me £1,000 is a significant barrier and if the total cost is regularly getting more than that then people will really start to look elsewhere.
$10 says one of the Major French resorts might actually drop their lift prices for next season - probably won't be CDA though...
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bertie bassett, Good point, I suppose if one of CdAs competitor resorts drops lift prices CdA will have to? But which non CdA resort in France is large enough to worry CdA?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I used to reckon on ~£20/day/person for a lift pass. But this year it's more like £30/day/person. You can avoid mountain restaurants/apres ski bars increasing prices - but you can't avoid paying more for your lift pass!
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Boredsurfing, Solution: go to Austria, or Italy.
For many many years we were France regulars. But this year, of the four weeks skiing booked so far, *NONE* is in France.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Isn't France reducing VAT too..? or is that just on food/drink..?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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RobW, nope, it would cost me loads more 
Mac22 nope just on dish of the day in Restaurants.
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I did eat a croissant (£1.20) this morning, at a central London cafe, so I haven't pulled the plug on France completely
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You know it makes sense.
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Lordy - I did Tignes for about £700 all in last year. Booze... food... ski to door... the works. Apartment wasn't too bad either... bunks... no sleeping in lounge.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| The Abominable snowHead wrote: |
| It's obviously a combination of Hemel Hempstead and Aviemore for me again this winter |
LOL, apparently quite a few people tried Scotland for the first time last season as a result of the credit crisis and the good conditions and if the superb start to the season this last week at Cairngorm are anything to go by I suspect a few more might do so this season too. Will be interesting to see what happens but with skier numbers up last season it'll certainly be great for the home snowsports industry if the same can happen again 
As for France I love it but the prices are silly in some places when compared to destinations like Austria, having said that though cheaper deals and more realistic prices can be found in the less well known resorts.
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Poster: A snowHead
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This season will a whole load of TO's, Hotels , Independents go to to wall because there bottom line just does not add up.
That is life and folk need to adjust to economic reality's
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have a client who is a manager for one of the big ski TO's. He called me last week to ask about redundancy insurance. They booked 40% less accommodation than they did last year any they are still 30% down on bookings in comparison for the reduced accommodation. Bulgaria and Andorra are up on last year, so France must be way way down. He reckons the serious fire sale will kick in about the middle of January.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We're doing Tignes fully catered for £427 next week. Lift pass will be £178 at current exchange rate. That seems pretty reasonable to me. Total trip cost £605 plus beer. For us it was a case of still wanting to go to a French resort, partly because it was a known quantity with us with a group going, and we just chose which week we could afford to do that.
For January trip we ended up doing a deal for Andorra, where ski pass was £140 from TO. Made the whole trip more affordable, but just meant we could afford to go for a slightly better hotel than we would have otherwise, again half board so food costs are minimal.
Hopefully the fire sale will kick in January, because I want to try and get a dirt cheap week at the end of March to close out the season 
All most of this has done has given me a better position to negotiate from. We ring around the TOs, get lots of quotes, and then decide where we want to go. Then we ring them up and try and get the lowest price based on a few of the other quotes that look like good value for money. People don't need to spend £1K on a ski trip. That's crazy money.
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There are still bargains to be had anyway, e.g. drive out to Hotel Montalbert (La Plagne).
http://www.hotelmontalbert.com/tarifshiver.html
A 3/5 person apartment is 350€, and half board is 154€pp. This place also gives a 30% discount off the lift pass.
A car costs about 140€ each way in fuel and tolls, and ferry prices are pretty cheap at the mo.
That adds up to a fair bargain, e.g. for two adults + two kids.
Even a couple driving out for a double room is worth considering (or fly/drive).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| RobW wrote: |
| - but you can't avoid paying more for your lift pass! |
Skinning.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Skola, so you're only carrying 15Kg of luggage and expect to rent ski gear. Do you have any idea which resort you're going to, and how?
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Correct. I plan to rent gear and make do with the luggage allowance.
Havent decided on a resort, but from some time searching on here I've seen L2A and ADH recommended (transfer via Bensbus)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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£1000 a week is a luxury I would rather not have to afford. We are doing 12 days at Les Melezes, Tignes for £850 including everything except beer and lunch. We are taking our own gear, which helps, bit hiring was only £10 a day last year for good gear.
I haven't spent more than £130 a day even for short breaks, all in.
We've done Andorra for the last three years and have loved it bit may try Austria for one of our trips this year, instead.
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Skola, if you're up that road then Monetier les bains might be worth a look - quiet place, big ski area, could be a bargain. Try Hotel Europe. If that's too expensive, it gets cheaper further down the road. You can get cheap hotels close to the cable car in Briancon, or slightly further away like Hotel de Paris.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Tip for the English. Don't drink beer this ski holiday, drink tap water. You could probably afford an extra week's skiing with what you save! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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davidof, happy hour in some bars in Courchevel 1650 last April had the lager cheaper than in the UK, e.g. 3€ for 0,5l. The beer doesn't need to cost nothing, it just needs to get close to UK prices, i.e. £3 instead of £6 a pint.
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You know it makes sense.
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crosbie, thanks 
will probably be doing a 'resort recommendation' thread closer to the time but searching through the old threads first.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| bar shaker wrote: |
Like that's going to happen |
Yes I know it is part of the fun of a winter sports holiday... but if it is between boozing or skiing hard choices have to be made.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Anyone have any pointers to cheap deals over New Year ? Still need to get something sorted.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| davidof wrote: |
| Tip for the English. Don't drink beer this ski holiday, drink tap water. You could probably afford an extra week's skiing with what you save! |
It depends, a crate of local lager from the supermarket is cheaper in france than in the UK - "Apres" can be back in the chalet, y'know!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
cheap deals over New Year
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Hmm. There have been quite a few threads from folk struggling to find anything over New Year, let alone anything cheap. Igluski has plenty of availability in Bulgaria, though. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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pam w, Not the ideal time to go but I'm limited by my Wife's work unfortunately. There are a few options coming up but I think it's going to be a case of waiting till the last minute. Not looking especially cheap though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| pam w, Not the ideal time to go but I'm limited by my Wife's work unfortunately. There are a few options coming up but I think it's going to be a case of waiting till the last minute. Not looking especially cheap though. |
The Sunday Times had a similar article today, but I find them both very hard to believe. It may be that peak times in expensive resorts (particularly France) are not selling, but there is definitely much less availability of cheap holidays in January this year than there have been the last few years - with "cheap" meaning generally Austria or Italy.
Those two are still usually coming in cheaper than France or Switzerland, but with much less choice available, and not as much cheaper than has been the case in previous years.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
The Sunday Times had a similar article today, but I find them both very hard to believe. It may be that peak times in expensive resorts (particularly France) are not selling, but there is definitely much less availability of cheap holidays in January this year than there have been the last few years - with "cheap" meaning generally Austria or Italy. |
Not disagreeing with anything you say but the lack of availability may have been down to TOs not contracting so many hotels and chalets this year. Obviously you would expect them to contract more cheap than expensive places. Just a thought.
Club Med bookings for Christmas are down from last year and la Plagne is claiming that overall for the season reservations are down 9% compared to the same point (1/12/2008) last year.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
la Plagne is claiming that overall for the season reservations are down 9% compared to the same point (1/12/2008) last year.
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I wonder whether some of that might be due to the difference in snow conditions? I think a lot of people now wait till they see what's happening, then book and go at short notice. If there was a huge dump of snow in the next 48 hours I bet they'd get a flurry of bookings.
Not everyone can travel at short notice, obviously, and that's probably why peak bookings seem to be quite high - certainly there was absolutely nowhere available to rent in Les Saisies at New Year when I looked, on behalf of some friends, over a month ago.
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| davidof wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
The Sunday Times had a similar article today, but I find them both very hard to believe. It may be that peak times in expensive resorts (particularly France) are not selling, but there is definitely much less availability of cheap holidays in January this year than there have been the last few years - with "cheap" meaning generally Austria or Italy. |
Not disagreeing with anything you say but the lack of availability may have been down to TOs not contracting so many hotels and chalets this year. Obviously you would expect them to contract more cheap than expensive places. Just a thought.
Club Med bookings for Christmas are down from last year and la Plagne is claiming that overall for the season reservations are down 9% compared to the same point (1/12/2008) last year. |
Yes, I agree. Everything I have read suggests that TOs have significantly cut capacity this year, particularly in chalets, but also in hotels/apartments.
But the Times & telegraph articles are suggesting that even so, there is still a glut of TO availability, which I think is only true in limited parts of the market.
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FAQ
