 Poster: A snowHead
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Somehow I seem to be on their email list and today they mail me with a tantalising 'ski deals for January from £285 per person'.
It's almost conceivable that I might be able to get a week off work in January in addition to my main ski holiday in March, so my mind starts working overtime.
However, further investigations prove that £285 per person would actually be £745 for me (including accomm/flights/transfers/lift pass/ski carriage) and that's self catering! A whopping £125 more than I'm paying to go half board with Crystal in March booked way back in April.
Last minute 'deals'? I think not...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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How many other people will be in the apartment with you?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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queen bodecia, It is frustrating that deals such as these always apply to either two or four people to a room, and any other number will mean significant under-occupancy supplements.
Although you can search on Igluski for trips for just one person, they still don't usually include under-occupancy supplements in te pries they come back with.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The deal of £285 per person applied to 6 people in an apartment for 6. It was more expensive for 4 people in an apartment for 4 and base price of £445 for 2 people in an apartment for 2. Just goes to show that these special deals are only special if you like being a human sardine!
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Tried to find a holiday with igluski last year. They may say they try to beat any price, but when I told the guy on the phone I already had a holiday I was interested in for a god price, and no matter how comfy the hotel in Arinsal he was offering me might be I didn't want to go there, he seemed almost angry that I had wasted his time. I was asked why I was phoning when I'd already found a holiday with the tour operator. Not exactly good customer service, and like you say way too expensive.
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Hi queen bodecia, I'm the Product Manager at Igluski and thought I'd personally reply to try and explain.
As alex heney mentioned, under occupancy supplements often force the price of your holiday up, particularly with self catered apartments which are usually designed to be shared by 4 or 6 people. For this reason, many of our customers travelling on their own choose to stay in a chalet or hotel where we have a wide selection of single rooms available, and on occasion we have deals to twin or double rooms in chalets without under occupancy supplements when one person travels on their own. You may find this page useful - it's a list of chalets & hotels that have single rooms (although I can't promise that they will be available on a given date!) http://www.igluski.com/single-rooms . We'll of course always be happy to do the searching for you and find you a holiday without or with minimal under occupancy charge.
We would love to be able to show under occupancy supplements on our website but all of the prices on our site are provided by our suppliers and unfortunately they don't provide that information so we are currently unable to do so. We do strive to make sure the prices on our site are as accurate as possible and where possible we include flight supplements and other supplements in our prices which some of our competitors do not.
The £285 per person offer that you saw was actually for a holiday departing next weekend and was based on 2 people sharing a room. With snow falling all this week, conditions in the alps are superb, perhaps now might be the time for the extra ski trip!
I hope this helps (sorry for waffling on!) and I hope we can help you find a great deal in the future!
Best Regards
James
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reversecamber, welcome to 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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reversecamber, thanks for the reply. I knew this to be the case, I was just allowing my excitement at seeing an email entitled 'amazing ski deals from £285 per person' to run away with me. For the precise reasons you mention I travel half board (either chalet or hotel) and normally to Italy or Austria. I was really just commenting on how these emails suck people in to believing they can actually afford a second (in my case) ski holiday.
I do know better. Honestly!
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Yes, my mistake. The 6 person apartment deal was actually £272 per person!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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For skiing trips anyone's basic rule of thumb should be about £100 per day on snow travelling from the UK. You can undercut this if you're very savvy/flexible/not fussy/ prepared to skin up rather than use lifts/whittle your own skis a la Ray Mears etc. Think on this basis and there's no reason to be disappointed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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fatbob, that's pretty accurate. I'm paying £620 for my trip to La Thuile in March (half board hotel, flights, transfers, ski carriage, lift pass).
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You know it makes sense.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| For skiing trips anyone's basic rule of thumb should be about £100 per day on snow travelling from the UK. You can undercut this if you're very savvy/flexible/not fussy/ prepared to skin up rather than use lifts/whittle your own skis a la Ray Mears etc. Think on this basis and there's no reason to be disappointed. |
That's not too far off.
For my trip in January I am paying £418 (half board), then the lift pass will be €179 - so about £570 for 6 days.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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What really annoys me is when "amazing" deals come up in Canada for places like the Fairmont Banff springs or Chateau whistler. You then find out when reading the small print that these HOTEL rooms are based on 4 people sharing.
I mean, I can see what they mean about apartments, obviously if it is three bedroomed it is going to be cheaper for 6 people than one, but who on earth would want to share a hotel room with another couple? (Obviously swingers are theexceptions!)
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Poster: A snowHead
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stu330, if you book direct with these hotels (most of Banff), you pay for the room not the occupancy. I imagine most TOs get the same deal (massively discounted) and use the under occupancies to pad their profits.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| arv wrote: |
| stu330, if you book direct with these hotels (most of Banff), you pay for the room not the occupancy. I imagine most TOs get the same deal (massively discounted) and use the under occupancies to pad their profits. |
Well yes, the TOs will get a per-room price, but they then price the holiday based on dividing that price by 4 then adding in the cost of 4 airfares and 4 transfers, then their profit margin.
So although their overall room cost is no more if 2 are occupying the room rather than 4, their income is lower.
And quite a lot of people will travel as a family of 2 adults and 2 kids - for those the 4 people to a room is ideal(ish).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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And then they get stung for underoccupancy because the rates require "4 Adults" to share!
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stu330, I'm a bit past sharing with another couple but it works fine for my wife and I and 2 daughters (although I do have to wait a very long time for the bathroom!).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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theres deals on iglu for like 150pp going to italy in feb if i remember right. thats a week sc,
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We had a ten day trip to winterpark a few years ago via crystal and got stung for the underoccupancy as there was only two of us. Imagine my surprise when we arrived to find our room only had a king size bed. Not even a sofa bed. Were all four adults for full occupancy supposed to sqeeze into the bed. Now thats sharing.
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Skola, They will be places nobody wants to go to, from very limited airports (probably only either Gatwick or Stansted), at horrible times of day.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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And someone needs to say: £100/day on snow, but add two on-snow days if you go by train... (I mean £130 SNCF, not £250 snowtrain RIP)
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Skola, Iglu's a travel agent, not a tour operator. I've used them several times without any trouble at all. Invariably I ring up, give them some idea of what I want, then they do the hard work.
I'm surprised that queen bodecia moaned about the final price of the trip she looked at, given that it must have been clear that she'd be stumping for under occupancy. IMO it was whinging for whinging's sake.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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i see.
might give them a bell
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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hyweljenkins, I wasn't moaning, just pointing out that what you see is very often not what you get. I accept that no matter what I do I get hit with under-occupancy charges. It's the price I pay for the luxury of being single, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
It would be nice to see TOs and agents like Igluski showing actual total costs upfront on their website/offer emails but as the chap from Iglu explained, it would be very difficult due to all the variables.
Ho hum.
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| hyweljenkins wrote: |
Skola, Iglu's a travel agent, not a tour operator. I've used them several times without any trouble at all. Invariably I ring up, give them some idea of what I want, then they do the hard work.
I'm surprised that queen bodecia moaned about the final price of the trip she looked at, given that it must have been clear that she'd be stumping for under occupancy. IMO it was whinging for whinging's sake. |
Glad I don't work for a tour operator........
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You know it makes sense.
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queen bodecia, they offered a 6-person apartment for "from £285 per person". That's pretty up-front and is entirely accurate.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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hyweljenkins, it wasn't quite that upfront. The email was titled 'january ski deals from £285 per person' or words to that effect. I can't remember what the actual £285 deal was now, you had to click through a link, but the 6-person apartment was actually £272 per person (in Les Arcs I think), following that link took me to apartments in the same resort (maybe even the same complex?) which were £445 for 2 people in a studio apartment. My initial thought was that 2 people in a studio apartment would be full occupancy, therefore why would it cost so much more than the 6-person apartment? But on reflection it was probably a 4-person apartment with under-occupancy supplement added that I hadn't noticed.
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Poster: A snowHead
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queen bodecia, I think you have a very good grievance, and it's not ameliorated by IGLU's excuse.
I started a thread on the subject a year or so ago (Improving on Sardine Occupancy Pricing) which strangely enough you were the first to reply to. 
I reckon Snowheads could step into the breach given IGLU are evidently happy to wave it off as up to their suppliers. I bet you if IGLU rejigged their website to present offers on a more realistic basis, the suppliers would soon bend over backwards to accommodate it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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crosbie, I have the same email. It's the same as those sent by any other travel agent/operator, and is perfectly clear. The subject line says "Top Ski Holiday Deals from £285 pp". I've got another from First Choice that says "Fantastic ski deals from just £199". Both of the messages offer what they say. Don't forget that the email only has to be correct when it's sent. If a recipient hangs about then it's possible that those deals are gone. There's no grievance there at all.
I read your other thread, and posted in it last year. I think it's perfectly reasonably for a hotel/chalet/apartment to charge a single traveller the price of two people for a twin or double room. It's unfair of a TO to charge double for the flight, though I doubt they do that. A quick check with Crystal shows £495 per adult, plus a £98 single supplement - that's not at all unreasonable. However, Crystal then knocks off £29.58 for booking on-line, and another £80 labelled "Travel Supplement".
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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hyweljenkins, the issue is not single supplements, it's presenting misleading offer prices.
I'm off to Banff via LastMinute and they weren't shy to present a price base on 4 sharing a twin room (2 small double beds), and let's not forget the 10 quid per person admin fee.
Why present an offer price that only 1 in 100 punters would actually consider accepting, i.e. those four hard-up students (too young to snore) who'd think nothing of cramming themselves into a twin room, and would like to know if their two buddies can kip on the floor too? Even then, they'd still get pissed off by the admin fees and other hidden costs.
Why not present an offer price that reflects the sleeping configuration that 99% of punters would expect? Those rare 4 students can then assume it'd be even cheaper if they crammed themselves in.
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My issue would not be with them stating from x pounds. Rather it's when you use their website search engine and specify 2 adults only, the returns they give you shouldn't be 'based on four or six sharing'.
If you use their (Iglu) search engine, on their website, to search for a holiday which matches your requirements of 2 adults, I'm not sure why they then return an unsuitable holiday with a clear price at the top of the page, and then small print somewhere further down stating 'based on four sharing' - you haven't searched for accommodation for four, so why try to be duplicitous and intentionally mislead?
/edit - interesting, when you type 'Iglu', it automatically inserts a hyperlink to the website...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| crosbie wrote: |
Why not present an offer price that reflects the sleeping configuration that 99% of punters would expect? |
Because it isn't possible.
There is no such thing as a sleeping configuration 99% of punters would expect, or anywhere near that proportion.
There are many people travel as a family, and will reasonably happily share a room for 4.
And others who will share a room with another couple. I've done that myself, although not when skiing.
Although most offers outside of France and North America tend to be for two people anyhow.
I agree with fr0sty that it is very much more of an issue when you specify the number of people in a search and the search then comes back without any relevant under-occupancy supplements included in the price.
I don;t see that there is any issue at all with them having headline offers saying "from £x" where it will only be applicable in slightly unusual circumstances.
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Ryan air flights from £1.
Come on. Where there's a will there's an honest price.
Burdening 99% of the punters with the hassle of multiplying the offer price by 2-4 cons the gullible, pisses off the intelligent, irritates the experienced , and amuses the tour operator.
There's a market opportunity for a tour operator (or site like Ig1u) to be honest and upfront, and thus win hearts and minds.
Contempt for your customers may be the order of the day, but there's no need to be defeatist about this.
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| crosbie wrote: |
Ryan air flights from £1.
Come on. Where there's a will there's an honest price.
Burdening 99% of the punters with the hassle of multiplying the offer price by 2-4 cons the gullible, pisses off the intelligent, irritates the experienced , and amuses the tour operator.
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Pisses off those few among the intelligent who prefer to be pissed off than get a bargain.
And it is unlikely to significantly irritate the experienced, because those who are significantly irritated by it simply won;t become experienced - they will go elsewhere.
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There's a market opportunity for a tour operator (or site like Ig1u) to be honest and upfront, and thus win hearts and minds.
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Why don't you try it then?
I suspect you will find there isn't a market opportunity, except for small individual operators. Which is why none of the big boys do it.
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Contempt for your customers may be the order of the day, but there's no need to be defeatist about this. |
It isn't really about being defeatist. It is about the fact that most of us simply don't see it as the issue that you do.
We know what to expect, and only occasionally get a bit irritated by it.
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I don't object to single supplements up to a reasonable amount. The luxury of being single and having my own space is worth it to me. I like having my own space, I live alone in a 3-bedroom house, and a holiday is a luxury purchase (not a necessity), why would I lower my standards? But I would object to paying double. I'm not two people, I'm not going to eat two people's amount of food and I do not take up the place of two people on a flight or transfer bus.
I have an issue with large supplements for single rooms. I've had a single room before that wasn't much bigger than a cupboard, yet it cost me £50 more than a couple sharing a large double room with a bathroom (not shower room) and a balcony. How is that fair?
Anyway, I do realise that there was nothing wrong with the original email from Igluski. It just elicited momentary interest until I investigated further and discovered no reason for my interest.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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queen bodecia, spot on.
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FAQ
