 Poster: A snowHead
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Evenin' all.
Firstly, apologies if this has been asked a thousand times before (done a search and can't find anything about it).
We've finally booked to go to Les Arcs in January and I can't wait.
I know its always difficult to answer questions like this because the obvious answer is "depends how good a skier you are."
I'm constantly looking to improve my skiing - I'm not interested in bragging to mates what I've "been down", more bothered about improving my technique and becoming a better skier, and skiing harder and harder pistes but with an element of style and grace.
Last year in the 3 Valleys I conquered the black run 'Jockeys' pretty well, in the past I've skied runs like the 'Sache' and been down 'The Face' in Val d'isere numerous times - albeit taking my time in every instance.
I think I'm a pretty cautious skier and always want to do as much research into black runs before getting to the point of no return and thinking "eh up, I didn't bargain for this!"... I think you may call it "considered risk taking!".
I've had two dislocated shoulders whilst skiing and I suppose I'm just trying to avoid the hat trick whilst pushing myself down harder slopes...
...so what do you know about the 16km Aiguille Rouge and is it a contender for my next challenge... if its open that is!!!
Cheers
Dom
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dom74, I would describe myself as a goodish intermediate - I did it twice this year and it is perfectly doable. A lot of it was more Red than Black in my view.
Is a lovely run though - need to time it right as the queue for the last cable car to top can be long, I head out first lift to get there when doing it.
Oh and there is bog all down in Villagoger apart from one Restaurant - no cafe or fast food joint or shops. So keep a drink and snack handy
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Boris is right - there's a steepish bit near the top but otherwise it's a reddish black - or even blackish red.....
IMO, overall it's a lot easier than Face - it just doesn't seem to get the same level of traffic to develop the giant bumps that form on that run.
The one restaurant in Villaroger is very pleasant - nice enough for a well deserved cuppa after the Aiguille Rouge. Plus (at least when we were there last) the first chairlift back was very slow and very cold..... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Dom74, Agree with Boris... it's a long red. There are black bits but these are short lived and always avoidable. There are also cuts though the forest but do these the first time with someone who knows the route... they can lead to rocky terrain so don't blindly follow tracks off piste unless you are ok at escaping crap.
The proper route is a fantastic morning excursion.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There are a number of lines there. Do you mean the front face of the Aiguille Rouge or the long black to Villaroger?
here is some info on the face:
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| The Couloir en S is is one of the hardest descents, the gully stretches along the whole North East face of the Aiguille Rouge before opening up onto the easier slopes of the Grand Col. The level of difficulty really depends on the current snow conditions - fresh powder for preference. The slope is around 40-45 degrees over 300 meters. A rope and ice axe are useful. An easier alternative is the Col du Génépi, after descending the Villaroger piste some distance bear right to the Col. A steep lip (caution avalanches) exits onto the moderate north east slopes of the Aiguille Rouges. An alternative is to traverse leftwards from the Col to reach the Combe des Lanchettes. Note that Lanchettes is Savoie patois for "avalanche". |
Avy conditions were bad (4) when I was there so I didn't ski it.
If you mean the piste I didn't even realise it was black until I looked at the map just now (piste skiing I just ski anywhere without looking at grades of runs). If I remember deux tetes and gollet were definitely steeper. I think in my 8 days there in Jan I skiied close to every run and there was nothing really steep piste-wise in the resort so I wouldn't worry.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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narc, Yup - the black piste down is so called for the top couple of steep runs avoidable along the red.
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A lovely long red with some blackish bits and some blue segments - most of the other blacks are harder. I am sure you will do it several times.
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narc at the risk of sounding offensive it's fairly obvious from Dom74's post that the wasn't considering off piste down from the top of the Aiguille Rouge!!!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry, serves me right for skim reading the title 
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Its open to the Public. It is just that 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Fantastic advice people.
Answered my question perfectly - I love this site!!
By all accounts it seems perfectly within my capabilities and if it does throw up a few surprises, it sounds like the kind of short lived challenge I need anyway.
Look forward to it.
Narc, I'm gonna have a look at deux tetes and gollet too, thanks for the advice, although I was on about just the black marked piste, can't wait 'til I'm up to the standard of popping off the sides of the aiguille rouge or bellecote in La Plagne, but from the reading I've done on them so far this week, they seem areas that I need to leave along for a bit!!!!
Cheers everyone
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Top tip I borrowed from here... As it's a cable car about 70 people discharge at once and then there's a big 'hustle' of people getting skis on and setting off. Give it a couple of minutes to give yourself so time prior to setting off. For the 1st little bit take the black not the red, and the about 100 yds down you have a choice of a bumps section or turning left to avoid them. Once you've got past that you've done the hardest bit (IMHO) apart from the risk of collisons in the narrow sections and crappy snow around (and below) the solliet restaurant.
If you want to try doing it in 2 stretches, then you can do the bottom half by taking lanchettes out of 2000 and going down to Villaroger from there. Likewise the top section you can go from the top to the reservoir piste (just below the top of lanchettes lift).
IMHO Droset, the blacks under Varet and Bois De L'ours are all harder but given it's the 'marquee run' in the resort can get pretty busy on peak days, e.g. a sunny sunday in Feb.
Enjoy it..
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bertie bassett, I remember looking down on Droset's concave entrance for the first time from the chairlift over the Villaroger descent. It turned out to be one of the best runs in les Arcs, a confused maze of semi fresh tracks diving steeply down through stunted trees and still full of fluffy powder in April. I guess that's because it faces N(E) ? and doesn't get a whole lot of traffic. The road crossing near the bottom was a wee bit Easter sketchy though.
Dom74, I've only been the once but agree with everything bertie bassett said, including that the car up to the top is oversubscribed so make the most of your rides. After you've come down from the top of Aiguille Rouge there is a lovely glacial bowl to be had off to the left towards the safety ropes. Shortly after that you'll come to a piste T-Junction where if you head right towards Villaroger just a bit you'll soon encounter some wonderful descents to Arc 2000. Here's one of them that I think was Genepi but could easily have been Garet for all I know .... http://www.snowmediazone.com/the_zone/showphoto.php/photo/16566/ppuser/1063 It also didn't seem to have near the level of traffic that say Refuge was getting on Grand Col although even that had some near piste off piste to its right that was quiet and quite inspiring.
For long and steep, I'd also give another vote for the skiing under Bois de L'Ours and off to its left toward the avi barriers although I'd like to try it again in the heart of winter when it's not so sloppy and sloughy from the sun.
Les Arcs is definitely a destination I'd be very happy to go back to. 
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You know it makes sense.
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This probably should have had a separate thread but I saw you mention Sache. I'm in Tignes in Jan and will be staying near the bottom of Sache. What's it like?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Dom74, Agree with bertie bassett, there is bit of a lip at the top, and then fairly steep coming down for the first 100 to 150 yds, the start is the worst bit, watch out for the red coming in on the right, especially if its busy. I once made the mistake of taking the red! wish i hadn't I think its worse, especially late in the day when it gets churned up. On old piste maps the top half of the run was black and the rest red.
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Poster: A snowHead
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bar shaker, I've only been down the sache once, as mentioned above I'm a pretty cautious strong intermediate (if thats possible!!!) and found it was fine in terms of difficulty - from recollection there certainly weren't any 'oh my god' moments at all, at the time it was on overcast day and there were some pretty hard pack patches on the steeper section which required diggin the edges in, it certainly wasn't ice as many skiers complain of when they hear nasty scraping noises in their turns, so I don't know whether this is typical of the Sache or whether it was just that day.
Nice longish run, I'd definitely head over there again in the future, but can't remember thinking "that was awesome".
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dom74, like you I'd say I was
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a pretty cautious strong intermediate
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and just to reassure you moffatross, andbertie bassett, have described the run at the start pretty well. The only bit I really needed to take my time with was the very top just out of the gondola, but on a good day the view is utterly breathtaking from the gondola station, so you can have a 'woof woof' moment looking at that while the Bode Millars get off on their toes. Once you get out of the high section it goes into some lovely treeline skiing. You really feel like you have travelled. There are some interesting bits in lower sections that get mogully, and some lovely alpine meadows to swoosh down. Very satisfying.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Dom74 wrote: |
| Narc, I'm gonna have a look at deux tetes and gollet too, thanks for the advice, although I was on about just the black marked piste, can't wait 'til I'm up to the standard of popping off the sides of the aiguille rouge or bellecote in La Plagne, but from the reading I've done on them so far this week, they seem areas that I need to leave along for a bit!!!! |
If you want to get off the piste, there are some good lines between the rock bands skiers right off lanchettes that are not at all full on. Hardly anyone goes there so you can often get fresh tracks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Dom74, Some of the advice on here is very good, from what you have said about your level, you should have know problem skiing down to Villaroger, just take your time. As a number of people have said, there are easy alternatives to all the harder black sections, but as blacks go, it is not a very hard one anyway.
With regard to routes suggested by narc, first, you need a permit to go where he is surgesting. Second, you need to be an advanced off piste/expert skier to do 'Couloir en S'. Two years ago two pisters died very near there off piste to give you an idea of how hard it is.
The other route 'between the rock bands skiers right off lanchettes' chairlift is ok if you are already good at off piste BUT it is not a place to go to learn. If you have any problems it is very hard to get back to the piste. Not somewhere I would ever take introdution off piste skiers.
By the side of deux tetes, the gollet and a number of other unpisted blacks/reds are better places to learn although first you should maybe try around the snowpark area as there is often good snow where it is safe to pick up the idea. This season they have marked the piste map with many 'Natur rides', these are unpisted runs which are protected. Like the american idea of inbounds. They are not really new areas, just labelled differently. Visit the Snow reports section and look under the thread 'Les Arcs 2009 /2010' for more info about the whole area.
Just out of interest, where are you staying and when are you out. There are quite a few snowheads around if you fancy meeting up whilst you are out.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Dom74,
| bertie bassett wrote: |
| For the 1st little bit take the black not the red, and the about 100 yds down you have a choice of a bumps section or turning left to avoid them. |
Yes, the Black is probably easier than the red, as the red is quite narrow. The bumps are a f!&$ing liability. They can actually be quite difficult, the reason being many people attempt them is because they want to say they have done the black, but in reality, the 'bumpy bit' is miles out of their ability. Skis and poles everywhere. I got clouted from behind on this section last year by an out of control Frenchman who after picking up a tad more speed than he wanted, decided to use me as a brake - and proceeded to hang on until we reached the bottom.
If you want some fun on the AR, as you look down the black (It's hard to visualise this sat here, so correct the detail if I'm wrong..anyone), go over the left hand side 'edge'.. you might have to 'roll in' , stay left - you might get some fresh..), you'll have go over the red (drop here IIRC), so timing is paramount, but.. if you get it right, you can steam on and up to the top LHS of the glacier, cracking run down from there.
Allan
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halfhand, yes, Sache at Tignes is a good run and the bottom 1/3, at least till till it rejoins the red route further down, is harder than any of the Villaroger run. There are good off piste variants.
The Aiguille Rouge is a mountain with lots of runs on it (almost all marked black) and the Villaroger run is just the longest and most famous of them. For those into extreme off piste the routes directly over the back include some of the most radical around - mostly around 45º or steeper (and most of those are too steep for me).
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 30-11-09 11:07; edited 3 times in total
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| snowcrazy wrote: |
| Dom74, Just out of interest, where are you staying and when are you out. There are quite a few snowheads around if you fancy meeting up whilst you are out. |
By the sounds of your Username, I'm probably staying with you!!!
We're staying at The Eagles Nest chalet in Peisey-Nancroix courtesy of Mike & Laura at SnowCrazy (16th Jan for a week).
Just need to keep doing the snow dance now.
Thanks for the tips everyone.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dom74, I'm out on the 15th Jan for a few weeks, staying in Vallandry, would be happy to show you around, I know the resort 'fairly well'... PM me if interested..
Allan
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I have trouble telling where the black or red is on the glacier ( not sure if it is any different).
Got a heads-up via walkie talkies this year (jan) that they were about to open the lift to the top after a good dump third week in jan.
Got on the first cable to the top. Prob one of my best runs ever across the glacier.. easy over a meter deep!
There was one pisted bit down the left (as you look from the top) I guess that was the red.
I think the black is just a section of the glacier not pisted. The rest down to villaroger is an easy red.
The only thing that makes it a little harder is being up so high, your just a little apprehensive. That little knot in the belly that says +3000 meters 
I cant actually go up until ive been on the hill for a couple of days. I do feel the altitude.
Tux
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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allanm, nice pics but I do not think they should try your little variation at the start although I agree it is a fun route.
Dom74, Nope Mike and Laura in La Rosiere are nothing to do with me. They run a company called 'Snowcrazy Ltd' I believe. Have always been up in La Ros, did not know they were expanding into Les Arcs. I hope they are a good company with that name. I shall have to check them out.
If you want a good ski, do contact allanm, you should have a good time with him and he is right on your doorstep.
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| snowcrazy wrote: |
| allanm, nice pics but I do not think they should try your little variation at the start although I agree it is a fun route. |
Spoilsport...
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You know it makes sense.
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allanm, Nice pics allan! God I can't wait!!!! Is the first shot of the black run the first initial pitch that everyone says is the hardest bit??? If so, it looks pretty ok to me... doesn't look too 'black' at all.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Dom74, Yes, the first shot is from the top looking at the start of both the runs The narrower red is in the bottom right hand corner where there is a bloke in red on his own. The black starts adjacent to the red slightly further away. This one is the black from the top , going over the 'wall' on the left is the possible alternative route I was suggesting earlier although snowcrazy may just be right ....
If you look at this one you can see the red crossing at the bottom, the 'bumpy bit' I was on about is straight on there, over the edge, so to speak, it's by far the hardest part, but you can just look over the edge and if you don't like it, or there are too many lonely skis and poles about you can just take the red, although it does get quite narrow in places.
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FAQ
. Well we ummed and aaahed and eventually thought what the hell and went for it. From here it got narrower and bumpier, and narrower. Yes it was tougher than the first part but I must be a very good skier 
. Don't go to the bar/cafe right at the bottom as it's shockingly expensive.