 Poster: A snowHead
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Going to Le Corbiere at Xmas - yippeee!
On a budget and thinking about skiing with the kids this year rather than sticking them into ski school.
I am a fairly decent piste skier relatively speaking, and can venture off the side of the piste. My kids are 9 and 11, young son will try most things, elder daughter is a bit more sensible.
Last year we just had a day at Glen shee which was great and I think the kids learned as much by following me and spending time skiing as they did the previous year with a ski school.
They do enjoy the social aspect of ski school mind you, but I am not convinced its worth it?
Thoughts?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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scotabroad, perhaps a couple of private lessons for them as opposed to a week of group lessons? It should work out a fair bit cheaper (especially in a small resort) & they'll learn lots more!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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In my experience a good lesson is worth the money, but a bad (or even indifferent) lesson is worse than a waste of money. The better I've become the more I have enjoyed skiing, and for me the key to improving was having lots of lessons with good instructors. But it took too many bad lessons before I knew what to look for in an instructor or ski school.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| scotabroad wrote: |
Going to Le Corbiere at Xmas - yippeee!
On a budget and thinking about skiing with the kids this year rather than sticking them into ski school.
I am a fairly decent piste skier relatively speaking, and can venture off the side of the piste. My kids are 9 and 11, young son will try most things, elder daughter is a bit more sensible.
Last year we just had a day at Glen shee which was great and I think the kids learned as much by following me and spending time skiing as they did the previous year with a ski school.
They do enjoy the social aspect of ski school mind you, but I am not convinced its worth it?
Thoughts? |
Depends what you want for your kids really - they'll learn to botch it by following other skiers, but they'll pick up your bad habits as well as develop their own. Lessons aren't cheap though, and skiing beats not skiing if budget is the dealbreaker.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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scotabroad, Knowing the area pretty well if I were you'd I'd check that they (I think it's just ESF there) do lessons in English and even for English private lessons I'd check that the instructor has more than just a the real basics. I think Le Corbier caters mainly for French visitors and doesn't get large numbers of British (not English  ) visitors. ESF in St Sorlin wasn't that hot.
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IMO the kids will thank you when they're older for the lessons. I wouldn't go for full days though. Book half day lessons or the ESF offer 1 and 1/2 or 2 hor lessons at lunch times. Having said this if you on a tight budget then I'm sure it won't matter too much if they miss ski school for a year. The 'Les Sybelles' is a great ski area. Try and ski with the family down to some of the smaller little villages for a bite to eat and a drink. Real unspoilt lttle places.
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IMO the kids will thank you when they're older for the lessons. I wouldn't go for full days though. Book half day lessons or the ESF offer 1 and 1/2 or 2 hor lessons at lunch times. Having said this if you on a tight budget then I'm sure it won't matter too much if they miss ski school for a year. The 'Les Sybelles' is a great ski area. Try and ski with the family down to some of the smaller little villages for a bite to eat and a drink. Real unspoilt lttle places.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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scotabroad, I'd echo Colin B's comments on language. I don't know that area, but I am based in a similar French area and know that there is no chance of group lessons being in English, with an overwhelmingly French clientele. But private lessons should be OK if you stipulate you want an English speaking instructor. Even if their language skills are not great, kids don't tend to learn by being "talked at" too much anyway - but it's a bit intimidating for them if there's loads of French flying round their ears.
If you are a competent skier, and you want to keep costs down, you should be able to have a good time skiing with the kids and maybe take with you a list of good exercises to do - skiing on one ski, for example (either the inside or the outside depending on your skill level), skiing backward, etc. The kids love all that stuff. No lessons are better than poor ones - not to mention cheaper.
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You guys are echoing what I suspected in as much that they are at the point where they can ski all day and would pick up as much just by hours in the skis as standing in a school. That sounds a bit snotty but I don't mean it to be.
I don't think being surrounded by French speaking kids would be a barrier, when they were younger we put them in an all day ski school in La Clusaz and they were the only English speaking kids, the instructor was a character and they learned basically by following and watching what the other kids were doing & they came on loads. We skied with them at Lunchtime and in the evening and they couldnt get enough of the slopes.
So i will not plan for school but will investigate it when I get there to see what the options might be, perhaps a couple of days for example to let Dad hoof it around the piste map. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bias aside, this thread is the reason I like teaching in Canada. I don't think any of these complaints would come up from a Fernie based ski school class. Shame it's a trek to take kids out really.
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| Quote: |
You guys are echoing what I suspected in as much that they are at the point where they can ski all day and would pick up as much just by hours in the skis as standing in a school.
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That certainly wasn't quite what I meant. They won't probably learn a lot by hoofing it round the resort, but they'll enjoy it, and become more confident. They could indeed pick up bad habits, and in a GOOD ski lesson they'd learn a lot. And "follow my leader" isn't altogether bad anyway, because the leader will pick a good line and make good big round turns, not the zig-zagging you see a lot of parent/child combos doing. Trouble is, when you watch a class of 12 - adults or kids - it's only the first few who are taking anything like the line the instructor is laying down. Most adults don't learn by hoofing it round the resort either - or I'd be a ski god by now. But having fun skiing with parents is certainly more worthwhile than wasting time in over-crowded classes where they can't understand the instructor.
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, good post, I agree with all of that. The key is being confident that you'll get a good lesson not a mediocre or worse lesson.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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DaveC, Language is hardly likely to be a problem there only time I've skied in Canada (Banff at New Year) class sizes were equally as large.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Colin B wrote: |
| DaveC, Language is hardly likely to be a problem there only time I've skied in Canada (Banff at New Year) class sizes were equally as large. |
Well, that's kind of my point. Dunno about Banff, but Fernie caps at 10 (though New Year is one of the best times to actually have that number happen), and I'm pretty sure a 4 person private doesn't cost much more than 4 group lessons anyway.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DaveC, Never seen my kids ( at Lake Louise and Jackson Hole) being in classes of greater than 6 or , and 4-5 would be normal - and that includes Xmas and New Year. Good reason for them learning across the pond. They don't seem to do much standing around either.
scotabroad, If you cannot guarantee class size and language - I think pam w is spot on.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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scotabroad, try to find an ESI rather than the ESF, they limit the class sizes to 8, and only 6 for the very young ones. They have a much better ethos as far as I can see, I have used them myself a few times and now twice for my son in different resorts. The class may still be french speaking in the resort you are going to but you mentioned that your kids aren't bothered by that, also kids do tend to learn by copying rather than by explanation.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
they limit the class sizes to 8, and only 6 for the very young ones.
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not necessarily - the are independent and don't all have the same rules.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
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they limit the class sizes to 8, and only 6 for the very young ones.
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not necessarily - the are independent and don't all have the same rules. |
The three that I have experience of have been max size of 8. Just checked the ESI website and it states max size of 10 and some schools will have fewer, so I stand corrected. Stark contrast though to the ESF's Piou Piou and Ourson groups of 23  I saw in two resorts last season.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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sarah, I've not seen ESF groups that big unless they have two instructors - they do join up classes sometimes and have another instructor bringing up the rear mopping up. But I have seen 14 with one instructor. The ESI in our resort stipulates max group size of 10.
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pam w, I just think that in a resort where you have a choice between an ESF and and ESI you improve your chances of getting good lessons by choosing the ESI. Just my experience. But interesting to note that a lot of the recommended ski schools which come up on here all the time are ESI schools e.g. Prosneige, Magic, Bass Morzine, Darantasia, Spirit 1950, Oxygene, New Generation, probably many others too.
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One thing I've noticed, though may not be the same everywhere is that it's the early kids classes - say up to troisieme etoile- that tend to be the busy ones with ESF. Above that, etoile de bronze/d'or, competition initiation or stage compete (has an entry qualification of 12yrs and fleche d'argent/chamois de bronze I think) are less so, so maybe where they 'fit' is something to consider in your deliberations. My 11 year old son has a lot of weeks under his belt and does still have lessons when in the Alps. As he has got better he gets more out of those lessons - he goes places, refines skills and gets challenged in a way that we couldn't even begin to emulate. Of course he also loves just whizzing around too!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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scotabroad, I would agree that lessons are best to avoid bad habits, we all did group lessons for a couple of weeks and then moved to private ones 2 to 4 hours a day for a couple of days at the start of the week, which really brought as all one. If your looking for an English speaking instructor you could try www.snowgurus.com, they helped me last year to find some English speaking ones for a group of us.
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I agree with Annie - for kids ESF very busy up to 3 star , then 2 things happen ( or did for us ) ; the numbers go down and the standard of tuition , fun and learning zoom up .
And if you avoid French school hols ( we tend to do a cheapskate week just before Christmas or just after New Year ) it can be very good - in Tignes 2 years ago my daughter's second time in Competition - she was the only one in the class , with a young French woman who coached her extremely well , and my youngest in 1 star - just 4 or 5 kids and again great tuition.
John
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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our neighbours, (a Canadian and a French woman) send their 3 girls to ESF classes every year - they are all very good and the little one (about 7 now) proudly shows us her latest star or other acquisition. They seem to get well coached and challenged. And if they're not good enough they don't move up to the next level. One of the problems with adult holidaymaker classes is that people just seem to assume that if they did "Level X" for a week a year ago they should now be doing "Level X + 1" and I don't think the ESF is ruthless enough about demoting people into groups more suited to their ability.
It's surprising how often there are questions on SH about putting the kids into ski school - whereas parents would usually benefit too. Here, obviously, it's a question of budget - very understandable - but it's a shame that so many parents who learnt as adults (which will limit all our progression) just put the kids in ski school and potter around on their own.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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scotabroad,
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I think the kids learned as much by following me and spending time skiing as they did the previous year with a ski school.
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That has been our experience. At the age of 9 and 11 our children wouldn't really listen to what the ski instructors told them and seemed to learn as well just following somebody around.
We used to spend most of the week with the kids following us around with the occassional private lesson thrown in during the week. They are now 15 and 16 and I now try to follow them around.
The upside is you get to spend your holidays together as a family and it is great fun. The downside is they pick up your bad habits and initially it slows your own progress down. I would say the positives outweigh the negatives.
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You know it makes sense.
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scotabroad, if you go for a private lesson for all the family,assuming that you are a mixed ability group, on whom would the instructor focus, you might not get the best value for money. Have had experience of follow the parents, we took advantage of some ski hosting, the father had said all his kids could do red's, he played instructor and most of them ignored him and paid attention to the ski host, who wasn't too impressed at playing instructor, but the children were most unhappy on reds, but that is another story.
Going at Christmas you may have a challenge getting into ski school, but should be OK on private lessons, we used to grab an hour or so between the morning and afternoon ski school sessions.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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scotabroad, if you go for a private lesson for all the family,assuming that you are a mixed ability group, on whom would the instructor focus, you might not get the best value for money. Have had experience of follow the parents, we took advantage of some ski hosting, the father had said all his kids could do red's, he played instructor and most of them ignored him and paid attention to the ski host, who wasn't too impressed at playing instructor, but the children were most unhappy on reds, but that is another story.
Going at Christmas you may have a challenge getting into ski school, but should be OK on private lessons, we used to grab an hour or so between the morning and afternoon ski school sessions.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Why not stick the kids into lessons in the mornings and ski with them in the afternoon. That will ensure you have your free-time as well as family time.
Its really important that kids have lessons, and following can only teach them so much.
Having taught for years I have seen many parents facing a similar dilma before putting kids into ski school, but a good instructor will give you and your family value for money, and more importantly teach safely.
Its your holiday too and you should get the most out of the mornings whilst the kids are in ski school.
Good luck and enjoy!
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FAQ
Kids learn fast,and enjoy challenges.My lot learnt from chasing each other around the place.They have also benefited greatly from some small group instruction from a fellow s/head 
,esp my youngest daughter.This is the way to go IMHO.Get the basics sorted,sort some more focused instruction and spend as much time as possible actually skiing 
) 3. They get used the the kit etc.
, so I don't think my methods have been too far wrong
