 Poster: A snowHead
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No snow forecast this week around France. Good edges needed - it's icy in the morning and late afternoon. If you have your own gear, get those edges razor sharp - it really makes a difference. If you're hiring, beware the cheaper equipment - there's a limit to how sharp you can get the edges on old skis. For the 'average' intermediate, good edges can represent the difference between a confidence building and an unpleasant experience, especially when there's lots of traffic on the slopes!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just a quick question,
When hiring skis, does hiring premium skis mean you get well maintained expensive skis or just expensive skis that haven't been given any different servicing to the cheaper hire skis?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hywel, depends on where you hire them from and how busy they are.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I second PG recommendation.
I have been skiing with own skis and have them serviced every year. This year the snow had a lot of stones during Christmas time and I could feel losing the power in the edge and wasn't able to stop as freely as I would like. I had the skis serviced on the second last day to minimise the things I had to do in the last day. The experience was I suddenly got all the stopping power back.
After PG's advice I now bought a edge sharpener so that I can re-edge the skis during the trip.
I don't think hired skis are sharpened as regularly as the customers wish for. A full service can cost as much as a ski day pass. The skis also get thinner every time it is serviced.
If we cannot expect a skier to look after a hired equipment as though it is his/her own then we should not expect the hired skis to be razor sharp every time we collect them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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do you think it would be worthwhile and/or allowed to buy an edge sharpener to use on hired skis?
is edge-sharpening a difficult skill to master - i.e. how much harm can you do to the skis if you get it wrong?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Edge sharpening is fairly easy if you have the correct tools, trying to do it with say just a file though will result in destroyed edges, you should aim to take almost nothing off the edge each time, use a fine file or better yet a diamond impregnated tool to remove any burrs from the edges before you try to sharpen them, burrs are much harder than the edges as they work harden when hit, so removing the burrs will give you an easier time when sharpening the edges
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We take our own toolkit and do running repairs, sharpen edges etc. It's not that expensive to buy or particularly difficult to use and it does make a difference to your skiing experience.
It's no different to a lot of sports - if we are sailing or windsurfing in the summer we have to constantly tune and check our sails etc to ensure that we getting the best out of them. If we can't solve the problem or think it is beyond our experience then we ask someone to double check - most ski shops in resorts are only too happy to help and we have found from experience that they are pleased that you are interested and will often give advice for free. We have never been 'ripped off' if they think that there is a need for them to do some work on our skis it has always turned out to be genuine.
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Hywel, You should always get premium (or whatever they call them) skis as the standard "hire " skis are rubbish and won't help you to improve at all.
With regard to your question, I'd be surprised if any skis were prepared well if hiring through a TO as the shops get much less for their equipment that way - certain business, but less money! You can always ask. If the skis have not been prepared you should ask for them to be done and collect them the following morning. The shops have a duty to provide you with a certain quality of equipment and should not charge you for this - you'll be unpopular if it's during the holiday period, but who cares.
The shop I use is a small independent shop (Ski Extreme) and they a) don't have the "hire" skis at all and b) service EVERY pair of skis as they come back, even if it means staying into the night. This, however is unusual, as life is very tough for the small independent shops tryiing to compete with Twinner, Intersport and Ski Set etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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easiski,
Thanks for the advice. I never use a TO, so I can choose which rental shop to use. I asked this question as I skied in Courchevel in January and felt as though my skiing had regressed since April last year. They say a bad workman blames his tools, and a good skier can probably ski neatly on two planks of wood, but when your trying to build up confidence, having the right equipment can be very important? I think I will be more discerning in my choice of skis and their service history - with 4 kids and luggage in tow, I'm not quite ready to buy my own and cart a 6' holdall around with me.
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Can anyone recommend a portable edge sharpener? Also, I understand there is an issue with getting an exact angle? I'm told 87degrees feels very diff from 89degrees!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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For an edger, anything substantial looking is good - all metal construction, firm and tight connection with no wobbliness. It's nice if it has a few different angles to sharpen at. As for 87 v 89, at 87 degrees you will have to angle your skis more to initiate turns, but during the turn you will have better grip if your skis are at very high angles. But for your average skier, 89 or 90 degrees is probably the better choice. If you do rails or halfpipes (especially on a snowboard), it's nice to have an angle somewhere in the 89-87 degree range.
EDIT: note that I'm talking about angles on the bottom of your ski, not the side. My personal suggestion for all purpose skiing/boarding is to bevel 2 degrees off the side and 1 degree off the bottom, making for a 1 degree rise from the bottom and an overall angle of 89 degrees between the bottom and the side. It's really a personal preference thing though; I've been lazy with my new snowboard and left the edges as they came - 90 degrees, and haven't really noticed much of a difference.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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easiski, When you say Ski Extreme don't have "hire" skis, do you mean that they hire skis but don't have specific skis set aside solely for the purpose as hire skis; or they do not hire out skis at all.
If they do hire out skis, would you recommend them as a shop I should go to? and if so, what part of town are they in? I have my own skis, but do like trying out others for a couple of days.
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MJH, I mean that they don't stock the skis that are made especially for hire and sold only to the hire shops. These are usually the bargain basement hire skis and are mostly rubbish. That particular shop only stocks skis that anyone could go out and buy, so they are better quality. However it also costs the shop a lot more to buy them in the first place. Regular skis also don't have such thick edges, so they wear out sooner when edged every week.
NB: if you want to profit from and Easiski discount at Ski Extreme then contact me ahead of time and I can arrange it.
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You know it makes sense.
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Just been to Ellis Brigham at Castleford and spoke to the service guy he routinely puts 87 degrees on all skis serviced unless asked otherwise.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Russell wrote: |
| Just been to Ellis Brigham at Castleford and spoke to the service guy he routinely puts 87 degrees on all skis serviced unless asked otherwise. |
87 !! for punters on the one week holiday? He's an idiot then. That's ridiculous, anyone that gets their skis serviced there should complain to the the manager and head office if that's true. For recreational skiers you'll need to be about lying sideways across the piste to get grip from that edge.
Here's someone at the right angle for that angle  (nice photo PG)
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Poster: A snowHead
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ise, Thats why I asked I,ve put 88 on my skis.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thinking about all this from a maths/physics point of view (so probably totally wrong !)
The acutness of the edge angle will dictate how 'sharp' the edge is and how well it will cut into ice. It will, however, get blunter faster.
The 'bevel' and 'rise' that ponder mentioned will affect the angulation that the ski has to make inorder to acheive the same angle of the edge to teh snow/ice. With a 1 degree rise from the bottom, this will mean the skier will have to get only an extra 1degree of angulation - hardly anything and certainly well below the 'error margin' or most peoples skiing.
It seems that for most skiers, the angle - 87 or 89 or 90 will mainly impact on how well the ski grips ice and how quickly it gets blunt. The 'bottom bevel' will impact on the angulation required for a similar angle of edge to sking surface - as I have postulated, this effect will be minimal (and I guess undetectable by all except the very best skiers).
Comments ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well, it seems to me that if the bottom edge is zero degrees, the very slightest angulation - or ripple in the ground - could switch you from one edge to the next, not very nice if unexpected.
I too am only conjecturing, but I have experienced my skis changing edge unexpectedly, both when turning round to check if my kid behind me was doing okay. Both times I had very painful wipe-outs as inevitably I was pulled on to the back of my skis, tossed through the air and landed on my neck!
It still hurts.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
| Well, it seems to me that if the bottom edge is zero degrees, the very slightest angulation - or ripple in the ground - could switch you from one edge to the next, not very nice if unexpected. |
Which is why you should never ride a flat ski, but be (slightly) on the edges all the time. That way, you are controlling where you are going all the time, rather than the snow dictating where you go. Even if you do put the base at a small angle, you'll still get your 'edge switching' if the ripple exceeds that amount.
I always sharpen my edges at 0 deg on the base, and 90 deg on the side. This maximises the life of the edges and doesn't give me any problems with grip.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am not sure if I agree with that, for example I often want to hurtle down a slope with some speed in a crouch with both feet angled just slightly outwards from knee to ski to avoid walking up the other side. With my one degree I never have any problems, but I have a feeling if I did not have that one degree it would be a more dodgy prospect. What do you think?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Nogs, you can still hurtle down the slope with slightly edged skis too. Yes you'll (slightly) turn, but if you then gently tilt the skis onto the other edge, you'll turn (slightly) turn back, ending up still pretty much going straight and hardly loosing any speed at all, so you will get up the otherside just as well - better, because the amount of ski in contact with the snow is a little less, you should even be going marginally quicker.
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Wearing hte edges out is a bit of a joke, unless you sharpen them after each run, you'll get many weeks of sevice out of them. I tend to keep mine at 88/2 for my piste skis because "that way, I am controlling where I am going all the time, rather than the snow dictating where I go." 
And when I want to commit to a turn, I can commit to it - the additional angle required to get onto edge means that if I am going over variable terrain when turning, I don't suddenly come of edge as my bases pick me up.
When I want to ski on my bases, I can be on them with no fear of catching an edge.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I run my skis at 1/3 (base/edge), that gives me an 88 degree edge. It is not unusual for WC slalom skiers to have at least some of their skis a .5/5, and Tomba was rumored to have a pair at .5/7. I think that 1/3 is a very good compromise, but the "typical" seems to be 1/2.
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