 Poster: A snowHead
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This is my first time on this site having googled for a ski forum and this came up - had a browse and looks like this is the place to be so thought i'd post my query - not sure if this is the best board for this but hope it is.
My fiance has never skied before and i would love to take her this season but she had quite a serious back injury in her teens that she sustained through gymnastics at a high level. She is now nearly 30 and fully recovered but no longer does gymnastics and only does light running now and is worried about hurting herself again or not being able to ski properly full stop due to lack of flexibility she now suffers with. I think it might be a self-belief issue as much as a physical one but after what she went through i can understand.
Have suggested seeing a specialist of some kind but not sure who would be best to consult? Her GP didnt seem very interested when she enquired with him. Not sure what to tell her - she wants to try (kind of! to please me but think that's the only reason) and is very scared of trying at the same time.
Anyway my question is do you think an old injury like this would prevent her skiing? And just after some general advice/feedback around this topic.
Thanks, I look forward to browsing any responses and the rest of this intruiging site!
Martin.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Get her in a private lesson so that the instructor can look after her...
Easiski from here is an instructor and has had quite a bad back injury herself... you can find her on www.easiski.com she would look after her
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Welcome
I don't think an old injury like this should really come into it..provided she has fully recovered as you suggest.
However, I would run this by a physio, just to be sure, but one who is well versed in this type of injury and one who comes with credentials.
I wouldn't go to the first physio you can find and you should also be able to explain the nature of the injury and case notes if necc...
If your GP isn't interested, bypass that GP...as they are no use to you anyway with that attitude..
Lots of people ski with back injuries, but then they may be able to ski in the first place...which helps a lot.
If a person is active and can take a rough and tumble, then they should be ok.... but get advice first
The physio will probably work on the core and I would have thought a person with history would know all about that as well...
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Martin81, welcome to Snowheads!
I echo what JT says, see a specialist of some kind first - ideally one who specialises in treating sports injuries, rather than one who will just be likely to say steer clear of anything remotely dangerous.
If the physio says go ahead then it might be an idea to take some lessons at an indoor slope in the UK first, before committing to a full holiday. Where do you live? If anywhere near Manchester you could get your fiancee to sign up for the beginner course first. I'd suggest the course that is three 2 hour sessions, rather than the 6 hours in a day course, so she doesn't get too tired.
It really needs to be her decision to ski though - she will enjoy it so much more than if she's doing it to please you. If she's really not sure about skiing, then perhaps you can could book a snowy winter holiday in a resort with lots of other activities to keep you and her busy? If there's no pressure on her to ski all day every day, it may be a less daunting prospect? A few hours lessons on the nursery slope, mixed in with some walking, and enjoying the mountain scenery?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Martin81, A private Pilates instructor will help her to re-engage all of the muscle groups that support the back, without any risk or strain. This is reading as though she needs to feel confident about her body before she embarks on learning to ski.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks for the advice.
She is interested in skiing for herself but wouldnt ever have considered skiing due to her back ,if it wasn't for me - thats what i meant about doing it for me! (Didnt mean to sound like a pushy husband-to- be!) We discussed it last year but she got too nervous and so we said we'd look into it again this year.
She has said how nice it be if we could do it together rather than me waving goodbye and going off for a few weeks every year leaving her behind all the time!
I think the main problem stems from a concern that she will re-ignite the problems so is being almost too cautious - i can understand this as i know how much of an issue this was for her at the time - she is scared of being in that sort of constant pain again (v.understandably!)! Although she is recovered, it was an injury that affected her spine as well as the muscles so she suffered some permanent damage that doesnt cause her pain but that she is aware of - so is concerned about not being able to control herself fully as she has a far more limited range of movement than the average woman of her age.
She feels self-conscious about it at times as from the outside she looks like a very athletic fit person so people often assume that she is fine. She once had a bad experience with a personal trainer which doesnt help with trying to get her to take up a new sport where she will need training! He took down notes on her injury but as the session went on was obviously ignoring her saying the discomfort or that no she really couldnt stretch/bend/lift anymore than that etc... He responded to this by saying how fit and healthy she looked so she should be able to do it! This was a few years ago but i think this situation is playing in the back of her mind.
I dont want to endanger her health obviously but would love her to give it ago as i think it would be something she would enjoy. Oh dear i appear to have rambled on a bit my apologies but just filling you in on a few of the detaills... i will stop digressing!
So I think the physio might be a good idea first. Do we need to find one that knows about skiing specifically or will a good sports physio do the same job? Just wondering how difficult it is to find a skiing physio!
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Martin81, it might be an idea to try and find an experienced instructor who also teaches adaptive skiing. Not saying that your fiancee is not capable of two footed able bodied skiing, but an experienced adaptive instructor would have come across many spinal injuries before, and might have some ideas on how to teach your fiancee taking into her account her more restricted range of movement.
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Martin81, I had two prolapsed discs, requiring surgery a couple of years ago, the first disc went just after I learned to ski. Following the nerve damage caused by this I have substantially reduced feeling and control in my right leg and foot. Also reduced flexibility and core strength, which I am addressing by Pilates lessons. Despite having to pretty much give up running, and being seriously reduced in my rock climbing I am still improving in my skiing. I would say it is worth a try, but if she is apprehensive (and depending on the former injury) it might be reassurring to wear a back protector as I do.
Robin
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Martin81, I will second the suggestion of taking her to Les Deux Alpes with Easiski. Last March & again next March there is a specific course for people who need to take things gently due to being older, nervous or post-injury. She will do 1:1 lessons, or groups of max 4 people. I fall into the nervous and post-injury categories myself, having long-standing back issues and ongoing problems from a very badly broken/dislocated ankle. She has looked after me brilliantly. One of the people I took and who went back there for a summer course and is coming again next March is 70. She has back pain & during our time out there Easiski recommended her to a therapist out there who gave her specific advice and exercises relevant to her body & skiing which she keeps up regularly.
If you went to LDA she could have 1:1 lessons and there is plenty of skiing for you. Another thing that attracted me to LDA, being very concerned about falling when walking about in a ski resort, is that the resort itself is flat, along a valley, so there is no worrying about negotiating icy hills on the way to/from restaurants etc. There are also several mountain restaurants accessible by cable car on foot, so she could easily join you for lunch and take in the scenery.
I think the key thing is that your fiance wants to try and if she is fine with light running I don't see why she shouldn't ski within her limits. I have a friend who had a dreadful back injury only about 5 years ago that needed extensive surgery. She now doesn't walk well - however she has started skiing again, gently, and says it is far less painful than walking for her.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Martin81, AS has been previously mentioned I've had some fairly serious back problems of my own, but have never had a problem skiing. Actually I'm much better when I'm skiing, but that's at a level where there's a good bit of lateral movement which most beginners won't have. However I have a physio friend here in Bath (no good to your fiancee) who tries to persuade all his back patients to take up skiing because he thinks it's so good for them. He's - yup - you've guessed it - a skier with back problems!
Anyway, what will be key is that she should take it easy to start with and not be rushed inthe first few days. Many group lessons are all about rushing people into being able to negotiate the mountain, which would certainly be counter-productive in her case. She also needs to be very honest about her feelings and what she can and can't do. The very good news is that the people who learn to ski easiest and fastest are ......... high level dancers and gymnasts (co-ordination, body control etc), so she should be able to pick it up providing she wasn't frightened early on. Once she's got the bug she'll just love it - we all know about that! 
At the top level of ski teaching you have to do a fair bit of biomechanics and physiology so it helps if the instructor is either adaptive or fully qualified and experienced.
Please tell her to email me if she wants to chat, and thank you pam w, Butterfly, little tiger, for the recommendations.
snowbunny, I went to pilates with some colleagues a couple of weeks ago - didn't seem hard at the time, but my back took 10 days to recover - back to cycling and walking for me. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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easiski, I went to a Pilates class a few years ago and had a similar experience to you - didn't seem too hard at the time, but I suffered afterwards. Then two years ago I had a bad spell with my back and went to our normal osteopath practice in Lincoln where I saw a new member of their team, an Aussie who's both an osteo and a teacher of Pilates instructors. She said too many teachers encourage all those at classes to do a "standard" routine with scant regard to individual need. Many of the exercises seem easy, because people who have not been properly taught are using the wrong muscles in a compensatory fashion and they can suffer for that afterwards. She taught me just a handful of very specific Pilates exercises and gave me a graded progression plan for getting used to them. I have to say they have been incredibly beneficial. As a "maintenance" issue, there is one I do pretty much every day before getting up in the morning and others I do when I think about it. If my back is niggly I do more and they are immediately helpful. Several times I was caught lying on the floor in the Waala apartment doing them last March, much to the amusement of J & M!
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Thanks for all your advice guy!
I think we will look into a physio see what we can find and see what they say. I think this will make or break our skiing ideas! I am sure she would be ok but i think she just needs to hear it from an expert!
Although i did catch her having a sneaky peak at ski jackets online the other night so maybe she's getting a bit more positive about the idea!!
Easiski - you appear to come highly recommended! we may yet be in touch!! I think that like you say it would have been easier if she knew how to ski before her back injury as she would be a little less likely to fall (well not quite so often anyway!) and she would know what range of movement etc she would need. But i'm sure she will learn! - Although she may need a bit of a hand getting up after falling over!!
Martin
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Well that would be good pam w but i somehow don't think she'll believe us on that one - i have reassured her that she wont constanttly be falling over but she just laughs and says we'll see!
I did, many years ago in a moment of madness try snowboarding - being honest i found i didnt particularly enjoy it, it was alright but i was almost a little disappointed as i thought id love it as much as skiing - maybe i could look into it again i supppose.
haha yes i thought this was a good sign - although it depends who's credit card she uses when it comes to buying something!! It may yet be a bad thing! 
Martin.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I do Pilates regularly and also exercises for me knees, which threatened to give out 25 years ago! I was a bit worried how my battered, aged, body would cope last year when I was skiing every weekend, and there is no doubt that my regime kept me fit and healthy. Properly taught and prepared for there is no reason why skiing should be any more risky than other sports. Go for it. (As ever I am very impressed with the range and depth advice offered by snowheads).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Martin81, If beginners are falling over all the time they're being badly taught. There's absolutely no reason for it, and get her to read this thread! Seriously, I do not expect a beginner to fall over more than once or twice inthe first week.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I did some Pilates with a teacher who was a qualified physio - she insisted on a 2 hour "1 to 1" session to cover the basics, and made me promise to practice, before joining in a class. Her classes were good, if a little serious, but she moved away from the area and I didn't find another class. Subsequently, some years later, I attended an introductory so-called Pilates class at the local leisure centre, which was dire. The bouncy young girl put on some "motivational" music and zipped us far too quickly through quite an advanced routine - I was the only one who had ever done any Pilates before and it was too difficult for me to follow properly. Afterwards she apologized to me for the slow pace and said it would be much faster the following week. I didn't bother to go back. She didn't have a clue. Even though I'd done some Pilates before and was probably the least decrepit and/or overweight person in the class (not saying much) there were several movements I just didn't do - because I knew enough to know I couldn't do them properly. There was a very large girl, very unfit, who had had a baby about 6 months before and not lost the weight. There was no way she should have been doing that class without very careful supervision - it was just a disaster.
The only worse class I ever went to there was a Tai Chi class. I'd never done it before and the only other two people there were very fit, very skinny, very hard, 18 year old Kung Fu fighters. They were very sweet to me - I probably put them in mind of their grannies - but I felt a complete idiot! I never went back to that one, either. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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pam w, I was advised NOT to join a class. I bought a recommended book and in 2x1 hour sessions the osteo/Pilates teacher I wrote about above took me through those that I should consider, wrote me a page of notes to accompany it and said I was to do them in my own time with no pressure/competition from anyone else. Although she teaches teachers, she is dubious about people running large classes because there is insufficient individual attention/tailoring of exercises. As I said, I followed advice and there are a couple I do in bed before getting up in the morning and sometimes before going to sleep if my back feels tight. It's responding to when my body needs them and it works.
Martin81, I am scared of falling mostly because of an over active fear of injury. In two weeks of skiing with Easiski I fell 3 times, that's all, despite having a poorer than average sense of balance. I didn't get a single bruise from any of them as landing in snow isn't like landing on hard ground! Oh and there is no problem with needing to be helped up - she isn't alone in that.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| If she's really not sure about skiing, then perhaps you can could book a snowy winter holiday in a resort with lots of other activities to keep you and her busy? If there's no pressure on her to ski all day every day, it may be a less daunting prospect? A few hours lessons on the nursery slope, mixed in with some walking, and enjoying the mountain scenery? |
My OH was very unsure about skiing so the above was very much our approach to our first ski holiday. We still don't ski all day every day but break up the skiing with other things, e.g. horse riding, snow shoeing, ... . IIRC she's fallen over about 3 times over the last five years but we've been very cautious about which slopes she uses.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
If she's really not sure about skiing, then perhaps you can could book a snowy winter holiday in a resort with lots of other activities to keep you and her busy? If there's no pressure on her to ski all day every day, it may be a less daunting prospect? A few hours lessons on the nursery slope, mixed in with some walking, and enjoying the mountain scenery?
My OH was very unsure about skiing so the above was very much our approach to our first ski holiday. We still don't ski all day every day but break up the skiing with other things, e.g. horse riding, snow shoeing, ...
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Can anyone suggest a good location for this kind of thing?? So we could have a browse online and in some brochures to get an idea?
We have found a sports physio who seems to come with good recommendations so we will be making an appointment to see what they say - but even if they say she is ok to ski i think it would be good to have a good range of other activities to do incase she doesnt like it or has days when she is in discomfort and perphaps not skiing would be wise so that she has time to recover and enjoy the holiday more overall.
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Martin81, Wengen, Switzerland is a good option. Lots of mountain restaurants accessible by the mountain railway and cable car. Day trips to Jungfraujoch (ice palace) and Schilthorn (revolving restaurant - think On Her Majesty's Secret Service). Very very pretty region and village, lots of nice walking. Have a look on the Jungfrau Region thread in Resorts section on this forum.
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One thing to bear in mind if she is afraid of damaging herself falling over, is that you are much more likely to hurt yourself slipping over on an icy pavement than on a nice snowy nursery slope. Wear good grippy footwear, and don't hesitate to use ski poles for support when walking around.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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RobinS yes that is a good point - to be honest i hadnt really thought about the non-skiing safety aspect!
So now we have some winter boots to add to the list... I have a feeling we'll be needing a shopping trip by the end of this thred - my creditcard is worried already!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Martin81, Well - other activies... My mum didn't ski in later years. She liked Wengen because she knew people there, but otherwise found it boring (she couldn't walk much either). We have, skating, swimming (indoor/outdoor), squash, gym, all but one mountain restaurant accessible to non skiers, glacier, ice cave, snow shoeing (very under-utilised by brits), a tiddly bit of X country skiing (pretty useless really), skidooing, quad biking, Venosc via the cable car, nice walks int he forest, hmmm - look at the tourist office website. Oh yes - and shops! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well lots to consider...
We've made an appointment to see a sports physio next week. Anything specific we need to ask him ? - hopefully everything will be ok and this will put the soon to be mrs-martin81's mind at rest.
Martin
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You know it makes sense.
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great indoor/outdoor swimming in St Oswald/Bad Kleinkirchheim in Austria. Super warm water from warmsprings, swim out into the open with views of snow covered mountains. Fantastic. Far more interesting than a boring hot tub!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you o/h is still a little aprehensive then consider buying a back protector to give a little phsycological confidence maybe. Expensive but perhaps useful
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Poster: A snowHead
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Martin81, Assuming s/he's happy for your OH to ski, check to make sure what she needs to tell her ski teacher. That's important. You shouldn't be shy, and it's not a question of political correctness either! If we know someone's limitations and problems we can deal - if we aren't told we can't help.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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the misses saw the physio and has been told she should be ok to ski - although (unfortunately) she will probably ache far more than the average person due to the way her body copes with her pre-existing back problem. so we have decided to give it a go but stock up on the nurofen!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Martin81, great news! As one with a back that is less than great (and knees to match) if the physio didn't suggest exercises for her core as recommended above I think I would ask. Some physios do Pilates sessions which could be an option or good Pilates classes - which should as others said take into account pre-existing problems and give good explanations and different options. As an often anxious skier - especially in crowded situations anything which helps her relax and would be good options so feeling strong, looking at back protectors (with advice), avoiding packed resorts if at all possible (down to timing not location) so she can progress at her own speed and have an enjoyable time
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Martin81, that certainly is great news and as long as she takes it gently with a sympathetic instructor I am sure she will do fine. As Late starter says, Pilates can strengthen core muscles but be very wary of the class environment as you can be pushed beyond where your body should go too easily.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Martin81, that's good news. Hope you have a good time. For what it's worth Mrs P has found Pilates helped her back...
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FAQ
sounds like a useless sort of "personal trainer". Sounds like the GP who looked at my slim, vegetarian, cyclist daughter and said "you don't look to me like you've got high cholesterol".
. Obviously being flexible helps (particularly if having to get up after a fall) but a sympathetic instructor who understands the problem would make a huge difference - I can strongly support 
It will also help you to empathize with the frame of mind where a gentle draglift, or a nice wide blue slope, can fill you with trepidation. And with some of the aches and pains, too.
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