 Poster: A snowHead
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So I'm 34, a reasonable skier for a 'vacationer' with about 30 to 40 weeks under my belt. I've done no race training whatsoever. My fitness is reasonable at the moment, but not remarkeable, but is improving all the time.
If I was to decide to go down the BASI route towards being a ski instructor, how far could I reasonably expect to get?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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How about CSIA? Level 1 is a breeze and is very cheap for 4 days of excellent instruction! Level 2 is doable the following year-the course conductors are level 4's and therefore some of the best instructors in Canada the course is 5 days long- $500 for 5 days doesn't seem so bad! With CSIA you are able to teach from the day and hour you recieve your level 1. CSCF race coach is also a very easy course where you do no actual racing yourself but the focus is racetraining with younger children-no race background required.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Kramer, BASI Level 2 is not tough to get, but it starts to get serious after that. I'd say that ISIA would be a realistic ambition if you continued to ski on a part-time basis because of work commitments in the UK. I think it is very tough indeed for relatively late-starters to progress beyond that level. If you want to do some teaching I think it is a great thing to do, but if you are only focused on improving personal performance I think that other options might be better.
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Kramer, I'm sure rob@rar is correct that ISIA is realistic and ISTD possibly a step too far. I also think that Rossfra8's suggestion of CSIA is worth looking at esp if short of time (or money!). I may well turn that way, or towards another similar option, myself...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kramer, Perhaps you should ask yourself what you'll use the qualification for ? If you want to teach in the Alps, you need to aim for ISTD, which means the Speed Test (hard).
If in UK BASI L2 is all you need, or one of quals from Snowsport England. If you don't want to teach - why not just enjoy your skiing ?
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I agree with all of the above, provided of course you're willing to spend most of the next couple of years' holidays on courses or shadowing for the BASI route. I'd recommend CSIA for people who have more limited skiing time to make it through the stages (as there's no shadowing requirement), but then I would say that...
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| ski wrote: |
| If you want to teach in the Alps, you need to aim for ISTD, which means the Speed Test (hard). |
I thought you could teach in Switzerland and North America (and other countries?) with Level 2 and ISIA? Not much money in it I understand, but I know a few people who are teaching in Zermatt & Verbier with either L2 or ISIA.
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rob@rar, You can, but if it's a long term career rather than a couple of seasons you'd certainly benefit from ISTD as far as earnings go.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| rob@rar, You can, but if it's a long term career rather than a couple of seasons you'd certainly benefit from ISTD as far as earnings go. |
Yes I agree, although for a recreational skier to reach ISTD significant effort would be required, including doing a few seasons working on personal performance. If I felt I might have a chance of getting to that standard I might give it a go, but I just don't think it's a realistic goal for me.
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rob@rar, You can work in Switzerland and Austria with ISIA, but if Kramer, was aiming for a career, then the Speed Test is the thing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You can teach in Switzerland and Austria with BASI Level 2!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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slikedges, Ooops... yes you can teach with L2.
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If I may a quick diversion off topic. The 'speed test' mentioned above, it is more a downhill, slalom, or giant slalom type of run?
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You know it makes sense.
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PisteHead, it is a GS run. You have to come within 18% (24% for women) of a theoretical time set by a World Cup racer.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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PisteHead, It's a GS. Very diifficult to pass - near Europa Cup standard.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I guess that's the nub of my question. How likely is it that an above average holiday skier, of reasonable fitness, aged 34 could get to a stage to pass the speed test?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's nowhere near Europa Cup standard! The F-value for GS is 880, so for an 18% time you're looking at an equivalent FIS point of 158.4, which is not even near getting into the English junior squad, let alone a Europa Cup place. The course is set under FIS rules which only defines how far apart gates must be and on what slopes the race can take place. Of course, that's not to say that it's even remotely easy, but let's have some perspective!
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 17-03-08 15:52; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Kramer, not very IMO - which may well be one of the reasons for it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| I guess that's the nub of my question. How likely is it that an above average holiday skier, of reasonable fitness, aged 34 could get to a stage to pass the speed test? |
It depends on how much time can be invested in skiing. If the average holiday skier continues to ski two or three weeks a season, even if they train hard on GS taking things like Snoworks race camps, I'd say there is no chance of passing the Eurotest. It's just too high a level for a recreational skier to pass. But if the same holiday skier worked full time for several seasons on their personal performance, including lots of gates training, I don't think it would be impossible to achieve. One of the BASI Trainers I've worked with this season didn't start skiing until his early 20s I think, so it's not essential that you have loads of race training as a child.
I also wouldn't discount the difficulty of the ISTD Technical module. You have to be a very good all-round skier to pass all the elements of the ISTD, not just good through the gates. Why not have a chat with Euan at the EOSB? He passed his Eurotest fairly recently and I think is doing a lot of work for NewGen with their trainee instructors so will have a good feel for what is possible and impossible.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sideshow_Bob, I stand corrected..... although that's what I'd heard from the mountains. It's certainly still a big test for someone without a racing background.
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ski, don't worry, while it's not Europa Cup it's still a very high level and a lot of British racers aren't even near the standard. The results from the English Alpine Champs show that only the top 40 or so racers got under 160 FIS points, and a bunch of them were foreigners. Okay, I know that the serious team racers don't bother with the English, but there are a lot of keen amateur racers there who will have spent many weeks on snow skiing gates and others who'd be ranked very highly on the dry slope circuit who wouldn't have made the grade. That's also based on a properly-run race with seeded start order. The actual Euro Test can be far more of a lottery, especially if you end up with a high bib number and awful course conditions. I remember seeing results for a Euro Test in Scotland a few years ago and I was surprised by a few names that I remembered from my racing days who failed to get the required standard.
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rob@rar, ski, A genuinely high standard. Have you ever had the chance to ski one of these runs just to compare your time with the 'pass' mark?
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PisteHead, I've skied with people training for it. It is indeed a high standard - both technicallt and fitness. Catsuit not optional.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| PisteHead wrote: |
| rob@rar, ski, A genuinely high standard. Have you ever had the chance to ski one of these runs just to compare your time with the 'pass' mark? |
No, I've never skied a FIS regulation GS course, but I have trained with people who are close to Eurotest standard and those who already have an exemption by virtue of their FIS points. It is a very high standard, and not one that I aspire to unless I could ski full-time.
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Kramer, PisteHead, remember that the oldest person ever to have passed the Eurotest was 42 (or was it 46?). Out own stewart woodward (who is a few years older than that) missed it by a couple of tenths last season, and despite a huge amount of training was (AIUI) quite a bit further off this year. ISTD is seriously difficult if you're coming to it late.
There may be hope though, in that it appears there are different levels of ISIA in the offing - see the various threads started by skimottaret (for whom, like rob@rar, this is not a matter of idle curiosity).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Out of interest, I wonder why is the FIS point waiver set to 100 when the equivalent FIS point to pass the male Eurotest is 158.4 and the female Eurotest 211.2? I'd have considered a proper FIS race (two runs, properly seeded start order) a far better indicator of racing prowess than a speed test. Is this 100 FIS point waiver only for BASI instructors or does it apply to other nations?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you are 34 and haven't done a lot of racing in the past, then IMO (as a 40yo Basi L2/G3) is that you have little chance of passing the speed test. So go a route which doesn't require it, such as the via the CSIA (Canadian) scheme.
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RobW, or why not do BASI to ISIA? Same as doing Canadian route in terms of countries you can work in, but can do the courses in Europe.
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You know it makes sense.
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The CSIA run courses in Europe as well as Canada - a friend did her L1 and L2 with them in Andorra last year (or was in the year before?).
And IIRC doing ISIA via BASI requires the speed test as well. If this is wrong, then maybe I've a chance! [Still hard to justify the £££££ in course fees though.]
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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RobW, it's wrong, only ISTD requires the speed test.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kramer - I passed my BASI 3 (ok, ok BASI Alpine Instructor Level 2) at the tender age of 40 and with 35-odd weeks skiing. I think that ISIA might just about be do-able from where I am, but never ISTD. At 34 you've got to be in with a better chance than me. I'm an ok skier, but no more than that.
The thing you've got to realise though, is that to pass the Eurotest you not only need skill and fitness, but also a willingness to risk your body in way I know I could never do. I know somone who came very close to getting his Eurotest; less close on his next attempt and then lost a ski (set to DIN 12) on the first run of the next text. He's decided that he values his body too much to continue.
But there again, a friend of a friend rocked up and passed first time and without any specific training. It happens.
I must admit that I don't understand how CSIA is going to help much. ISTD equivalence at Level 4 is far, far from an easy ride.
| RobW wrote: |
| And IIRC doing ISIA via BASI requires the speed test as well. If this is wrong, then maybe I've a chance! [Still hard to justify the £££££ in course fees though.] |
Not at the moment. There is talk of them instroducing a slalom though. Let's hope they talk about it for a few years more.
| rob@rar wrote: |
| but if you are only focused on improving personal performance I think that other options might be better. |
I largely disagree with this. The benefit the BASI courses is the access you get to some of the best ski teachers in the ski industry and a mode of engagement with them that is entirely focussed on improving your skiing. Few public courses have that focus.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| PhillipStanton wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| but if you are only focused on improving personal performance I think that other options might be better. |
I largely disagree with this. The benefit the BASI courses is the access you get to some of the best ski teachers in the ski industry and a mode of engagement with them that is entirely focussed on improving your skiing. Few public courses have that focus. |
I haven't really tried any specialist courses on personal performance (just the odd lesson here and there), but I'd agree that there can surely be few things as good as an instructor course to improve your skiing. My skiing came on significantly when I did my CSIA Level I. Okay, the skiing and terrain were not the hardest, but, it was imperative that everything was done to a very high standard - many of the components that had to be done very well transfer into almost every other aspect of my skiing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| PhillipStanton wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| but if you are only focused on improving personal performance I think that other options might be better. |
I largely disagree with this. The benefit the BASI courses is the access you get to some of the best ski teachers in the ski industry and a mode of engagement with them that is entirely focussed on improving your skiing. Few public courses have that focus. |
You can be taught by the same level of people, BASI Trainers, via other courses such as those run by Snoworks. Every teacher I've had on snow for the past decade has been a Trainer, even though for many of those years I didn't realise that was the case. Doing the non-BASI route you can choose a course which is more focused on what you what, all-terrain or off-piste for example, rather than what is in the BASI curriculum where doing lots of Central Theme work might not be to everyone's taste. You also don't have to spend a lot of time collecting shadowing hours, doing 1st Aid, Child Protection, Common Theory, etc.
I don't under-estimate the value to my personal performance of doing the BASI thing (the course I've just finished has brought my skiing on by leaps and bounds), but for someone who really has no interest in teaching I still think there are other options which allow them to focus more specifically on aspects of their skiing they want to improve, and to avoid wasting time on stuff that has no value to them.
A number of people have commented on the cost of doing BASI courses. I agree that it is not cheap, but I do think it is good value for money. I've just completed the Level 2 course which cost £500. For that I got six hours of on-snow instruction and about 90 minutes of off-snow lectures, per day for ten days, all with a world class ski instructor. It covered personal performance, teaching strategies, sports physiology & physiology and even a bit of Tai Chi! Probably the best £500 I've ever spent on my skiing 
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 18-03-08 9:27; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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BASI courses look expensive, but when you break it down, as rob@rar, says 10 days for £500, that's £6.67 hour, for a group no larger than 10 people, with a BASI ISTD Trainer. Bargain. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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isia unless you are an extremely talented athlete at your age
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What do people think of the Austrian qualifications? I'm tempted to do the Peak Leaders four week Level 1 course at the start of next season, but I don't really know how hit compares to other countries awards, or how transferable it is to other countries?
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clarky999, depends on how far up the Austrian system you go. The Antwerter is essentially worthless outside of Austria, but if you progress up then the higher levels are ok.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Kramer - are you looking to do this in order to instruct at some later stage, or to improve your own skiing?
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kitenski, I'm just musing, and a little inspired by rob@rar (my hero). 
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