 Poster: A snowHead
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The last couple of seasons we've skid in the Dolomites and they have a proper map showing all the lifts and runs. I mean proper in the sense that it's a normal map as understood by anyone that has been to school. Although the publishers had inconveniently removed the contours these could be merged back in using photo-editing software.
Advantages are:
You can tell how long a run is
You can tell how steep a run is
You can tell which runs go up-hill and which go down-hill, relative to lifts which is useful when planning the route back home just before the lifts close!
You can tell which is the top and which is the bottom of the lift
All of the paper can be filled with useful information rather than sky, distant mountains or valley bottoms.
Does anyone know if such a thing exist for Les Arcs (where we are going this winter)? And if so where I can get hold of a copy.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have not seen a "proper map" as per your description that also shows the pistes, however www.ign.fr do lots of very good maps that show everything else, including lifts and contours. Of course the maps may not show the newest lifts and may show some old lifts.
IGN's 3532 ET shows Les Arcs and La Plagne at 1:25000. There is a 1:50000 showing the entire "Vanoise massif et parc national".
One point to watch, some printings of the 1:25000 do not include lat/long grids which makes it difficult to match things against some GPS devices. I think the newer maps proudly show "GPS" on their covers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would have suggested:
http://openpistemap.org/
but it seems that no one with a GPS has skied round Les Arcs!
I too, still find it hard to believe that the the lift companies are unwilling to produce descent maps. Something user-generated like openpistemap has to be the way forward.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks both of you. I've sent off for a 25000 map from ign because I like maps (it can snuggle into the gap on the shelf next to my Chamonix map that has faithfully followed me over granite spires and down crevasses).
openpistemap is a brilliant idea, a justification to ski every piste in the whole resort! I might even be able to contribute something from the days when I had my gps switched on over the last few years (Hidden Valley on the Laguzoi looks blank (indeed, some of the contours look to be missing!) and there aren't even any lifts marked at Folgarida).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Man, I just find it easier to go up a chair, get off, ski down and go back up in a chair, most likely not the same chair as the one I used to come down the run and I repeat this process for many hours. Works for me 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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thefatcontroller,
Never had a problem myself in Les Arcs eitherpaddywwoof, don't really undertand the question, but maybe this is what you are looking for
http://www.paradiski.com/skiplan/skiplan.php?lang=en
or maybe not, but it's the best/most relevant thing your going to find.
thefatcontroller, have you ever had one of the 3D thingy's, mine went in the bin after the first morning and I reverted to the old fashioned paper type. But like you just go up then come down, favourite route up the Arcabulle then just head for Vallandry.
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Well that's the kind of thing I'm used to but in the Dolomites there was more scope for planning 'an expedition' and it was more fun than just zooming up and down in an aimless fashion (as I have always done previously). The proper map was much better for this i.e.
http://www.dolomitisuperski.com/valfassa/en-US/skimap-val-di-fassa-1851EN.html
compared with
http://www.dolomitesworld.com/images/sellaronda.jpg
It's not really a problem. I suppose I am just trying to delude myself into feeling that skiing is more of a real outdoor, mountain experience instead of the beach holiday up a mountain it sometimes feels like!
Thanks for the pointer Kel.
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Double post
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 13-10-09 9:53; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The French 1:25,000 maps are much better than the Italian ones - the contours are at 10m intervals so you can really see small undulations in the slopes.
Someone recently advertised these Austrian freeride maps (use in conjunction with piste map since these are not shown) however I think the contours are only 20m. http://www.freeride-map.com/index.php?lid=2&cid=100&mode=1&cat_id=1
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 13-10-09 10:17; edited 2 times in total
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Maps are for tourists.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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bertie bassett, does that mean you stick to the pistes (or close to them), or do you head off piste not knowing quite where you are going?
The Italian 1:25,00 maps are 25m contour intervals.
I have the 1:25,000 Sellaronda one with all the contours, lifts and pistes marked (plus cross country trails and some major off piste routes, such as the Val de Mesdi). It also has a much larger area Dolomites map on the back at 1:50,000 with the same markings but contours at 50m intervals. (English ones are 10m intervals.) It also has all the lifts listed with heights of top and bottom plus height difference and length. (I bought it in Arabba and I presume you could get it at the other major resorts.) The Hidden Valley is, of course, marked.
The map is titled Sellaronda e Valli Ladine and is marked Edizione Ausgabe
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
The Italian 1:25,00 maps are 25m contour intervals.
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Yes, be aware it makes slopes look a lot less steep than they really are 
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You know it makes sense.
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| snowball wrote: |
bertie bassett, does that mean you stick to the pistes (or close to them), or do you head off piste not knowing quite where you are going?
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I was trying to be a bit too clever..
"Maps are for tourists" = Good idea if you are touring aka heading off-piste, as you rightly point out, although personally I'd need a guide.
"Maps are for tourists" = You stand out a mile as a loser if you stand there with the itty bit map out looking at it at the bottom of the blue run.
ok so that second statement is a bit harsh but in Les Arcs the following applies in relation to on-piste skiing which is what I took the OP to be on about
1) There are only 2 lifts where there isn't a blue run from the top of them (Ag. Rouge Cable Car & Gd Col) - so if you're taken up a lift by a mate who's a better skier then you - you don't have to worry about whether you'll get down
2) Most runs (exception of Malgovert) reflect their gradings - e.g. if you stick to the blues you are unlikely to find something you can't ski down.
3) The layout of the hill is super straightforward - if you're in the 2000 bowl it's just a bowl - if you're on the 1800 side then the basic rule is head skiers right to get to 1600 or head skiers left to get to Vallandry/Plan-Peisey.
The best piste map of les arcs is the one on their website - http://www.lesarcs.com/IMG/jpg/plan_lesarcs08_copie.jpg if you want to figure out which is the top and which is the bottom of the lift then look at the pictures of the people on the lift - they face uphill. From that you can figure out the tops and bottoms of most hills, and therefore which way the run runs..
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I don't do touring (too much like hard work) but I ski mostly off piste and am prepared to walk for an hour. However, except for much of the stuff heading off right from the Grand Col this last is not necessary.
I agree, though, that a lot of it I wouldn't do with out a guide : some because it goes so far afield; and as for the many couloirs down behind the top of the Aiguille Rouge - because they are so bl**dy steep . Many of the latter I wouldn't do even with a guide.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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http://pistehors.com has a Forum item (dated 2009-10-22) about the French IGN maps being accessible via an iPhone.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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IGN maps show pretty much up to date lifts as of summer this year. They sort of show pistes as black lines but are useless. They wont show the new lift at arpette.
Viewranger for Nokia GPS phones is amusing as it shows the lifts lombard and percher from Plan Peisey. I think the old plan bois lift was Lombard moved and that has since been changed to derby. So depending on what you get on gps devices and real maps it goes from nearly useless to completely useless but nostalgic 
Get a piste map and some local knowledge.
Tux
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Adrian wrote: |
| http://pistehors.com has a Forum item (dated 2009-10-22) about the French IGN maps being accessible via an iPhone. |
here is the link,
http://pistehors.com/news/forums/viewthread/343/
just tested it and it works really well, at least where you have good phone reception like in downtown Geneva.
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FAQ
