 Poster: A snowHead
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Does anyone vote in these? I think I only have once, when the candidates for the position got a campaign running on Facebook!
Haven't received any information on the nominations from BASI as yet, but I guess it should be coming out soon. Being in HK though I expect it will take longer to get to me - has anyone in the UK received it yet?
I wonder if any of the people nominated are Snowheads, and if so if they'd post on here about why members should vote for them?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just seen that this info is already up on the BASI website for members to view. The 3 contested positions are; Legal Director, Marketing Director and Telemark Director.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We're going to the agm this year. First time for us, as it's at Hemel this time and there's lots more going on, we'll give it a go. Will be a long day though as it's the snowHeads bash and ski test later in the day.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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beanie1, Last time I'm sure I voted by email. No info through by post yet.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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david@mediacopy, I think I did too. Hopefully we'll be able to vote by email again this time.
Spyderman, holding it at Hemel is a great idea, should get a much higher attendance I'd guess.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Reading the doc on the website further it seems you can vote by email again.
Those standing are:
Legal Director:
Stephen Gottfeldt
Coral Riddell
Marketing Director:
Julian Griffiths
Andi Mccann
Telemark Director:
Roger Palin
Joe Beer
(only telemark members can vote)
Interesting to see that Coral is a part time instructor. I think we could do with some representation on the board, it normally seems to be dominated by trainers!
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| Does anyone vote in these? |
Only voted twice (since 1983)
1 in the vote to let in / keep out snowboarders (to change British assoc of ski instructors to snowsports instructors)
2 for Gareth (alpine director) last year - coz I think he'll do a good job and he seems ok to me as met him a few times in V dIissere and zermatt, mind you, didn’t know any of the others who were standing so they were prob ok as well.
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Hi guys, I got directed to this thread via Beanie1 and would be really keen to post here to drum up some support as a candidate for legal director. If you have any questions I'd be happy to try and answer them. I would also love to get a sense of what you know about the Board and how it operates -this is of interest to me and is in part my motivation for being nominated. Like many of you my perception is that the board does seem to be fairly trainer/ex trainer dominated and while that is not a bad thing I don't think it reflects the demographic of BASI members. I have not voted in the elections before, but am keen to get involved in and better understand BASI as well as try to represent the membership. I have set out my "election pitch" below which you'll have seen in the Annual Report. Basically I love skiing and teaching, but my current committments (mortgage, baby etc etc) make committing to skiing full time a bit tricky just now. I've been on the board for Snowsport Scotland so have some experience of this sort of thing. I work as a lawyer during the week, fitting in skiing in the evenings and weeekends on snow and artificial surfaces. I think it can be hard to progress a snowsport career while having another job but have been plugging away to get my Level 2 and have just got my IVSI membership. Finally being married to a snowboard instructor I am well aware that BASI operates to represent more than just skiers, and while a skier myself, I am conscious of the range of disciplines the Association represents. Anyway, I hope this is a wee bit of help in encouraging you to vote and let you know a bit more about why I am keen to get involved. I won't be able to make it to the AGM in Hemel as I am awaiting the arrival of my second baby. I am on email though and would appreciate any feedback you might have.
If you would like to submit a vote it is possible to do it by email to roz@basi.org.uk - You need to say what postion you are voting for (Legal Director), the name of the candidate(Coral Riddell) and give your membership number. Thanks !
"Passionate about snowsports and with a background in law, I am keen to contribute to the Board of Management. As such I consider that the role of Legal Director may be an appropriate fit. I am a BASI 2 Instructor who is enthusiastic about teaching on both snow and artificial surfaces and have a passion for skiing whenever and wherever I can. As a part time Instructor I am sensitive to the challenges that face those who cannot make snowsport their full time career and so I would also be keen to reflect that element of the membership. In my day to day role as a lawyer I report regularly to management teams providing them with strategic advice and I am keen to assist the Board wherever I can most usefully do so. I previously acted as Company Secretary for Snowsport Scotland assisting the board with legal and policy matters."
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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coral, welcome to snowHeads and good luck with the election. Will you be attending the AGM? I'll be there during the day and we should have a fairly large snowHeads event that evening at The Snow Centre.
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beanie1 - where is the document on the web site? I can't find it 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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FlyingStantoni, it is in the members area in the BASI report 08/09. I would personally like the board to be more balanced and be represented by the qualifications of the majority of members, or am I dreaming. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have just tried to read through the last 3 board of management (BOM) meetings and the very big thing I dislike is the use of abbreviations which are not explained. I had to guess what many stood for. coral, will you change this please so a relative layman can understand the minutes?????
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FlyingStantoni, I couldn't find it at first either! It's in the member's section under "Member Articles".
Thanks, coral, and welcome to Snowheads!
Does anyone know any of the other candidates standing, to encourage them to post here?
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You know it makes sense.
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Question for coral, prospective Legal Director
There used to be a webpage on the basi site with a list of members and grades but it was removed (so I'm told) due to data protection.
I have read through the entire Data Protection Act (for my other job) and can’t see anything that would mean that basi could not put this page back as long as the member agreed to it.
Not talking about full address, bank details, etc. Just Name and Grade and some differentiator (in case there are 2 people with the same name) maybe the basi number.
What is the legal thinking around this please?
__________________________________________
On the same vein as the point above, but I don't know if this is true (due to the web page being removed) so may be way off the mark here. If I am, no doubt someone will tell me.
I assume that the majority of the around 5,000 members of basi are either level 1 or 2. (maybe someone from basi will jump in with the figures ?)
| Dunk wrote: |
| I would personally like the board to be more balanced and be represented by the qualifications of the majority of members, or am I dreaming. |
So if the board represented the demographic of the membership, would we not end up with a board of directors, of an internationally recognised ski (and others) instructors association, who could not ski to a high standard. It's difficult enough to get some countries to accept the UK (with no mountains of any size) could produce decent ski teachers in the 1st place. Would not having lots of level 1's and 2's on the board just make it more difficult than it already is?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Wayne,
| Quote: |
I assume that the majority of the around 5,000 members of basi are either level 1 or 2
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I think it might actually be a lower percentage than you'd guess - as I think a lot of people who take L1 and 2 (on gap year courses for example) don't renew their membership. Still more than the number of ISTDs though (270 according to the BOM minutes on BASI website). I'd guess a lot of the membership is made up of L2s progressing through ISIA courses and L3s doing ISTD courses.
| Quote: |
So if the board represented the demographic of the membership, would we not end up with a board of directors, of an internationally recognised ski (and others) instructors association, who could not ski to a high standard.
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Totally agree that professional bodies need to have a good number of experienced people on the board, for credibility and just knowledge of the industry needed to run such an organisation. However, the less qualified / experienced members should also have some representation.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks beanie1.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| Quote: |
So if the board represented the demographic of the membership, would we not end up with a board of directors, of an internationally recognised ski (and others) instructors association, who could not ski to a high standard.
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Totally agree that professional bodies need to have a good number of experienced people on the board, for credibility and just knowledge of the industry needed to run such an organisation. However, the less qualified / experienced members should also have some representation. |
I think we're mixing issues up here. There are issues of professional skiing experience - we're a professional body; domain experience - we need to run the organisation effectively; and membership representation - we need the organisation to represent all of it's members, not just the ones that have made it through the system.
We need our Telemark Director to be a really great telemark skier, but IMV it's more appropriate that the Legal Director is a really great legal person, with some experience and knowledge of skiing - rather than vice versa. So, if we had an Alpine L1 who is the Marketing Director of a major company and wanted to stand for the role in BASI then that would be more valuable to the organisation than a trainer who has some experience of marketing through running their own ski schools. (Not a go at the candidates - just an observation.)
The issue of representation is completely separate for me.
Whilst we have a Members Ombudsman, the thing that the Board Lacks (IMHO) is a "Trainees' Director" - to represent the views of those people going through the system, rather than those running it. Much in the same way that university councils often have a student representative.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FlyingStantoni, agree, I think a trainee's rep would be a good idea, and that legal /marketing skills are important for the respective roles.
My point was responding to the post made by Dunk, as interpreted by Wayne, which seemed to suggest that the board should be more representative of the qualifications of the members in percentage terms.
There need to be enough people on the board who are at the top of their profession to represent BASI in the international / political field - if there were only a couple with this background they would struggle with the workload, considering it's a voluntary role.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| the thing that the Board Lacks (IMHO) is a "Trainees' Director" - to represent the views of those people going through the system, rather than those running it. Much in the same way that university councils often have a student representative. |
Not sure about that. In my other role, I get hassled by the student rep occasionally. Normally nothing I can do (welfare problems or lack of money so they need to drop out) or someone complaining via 3rd party about the grades of course work (even though the grades I give are externally assessed and do occasionally get re-assessed - normally downwards, I know I’m sometime too generous).
Can’t really see what a trainee’s rep would do that isn’t already done. They could (as we all do  , complain about the costs (accommodation, transport, insurance, etc) of basi courses. But there’s really not a lot that basi can do about these.
Even worse (as I get from my students) you may get the situation of people using the trainee’s rep to complaining about course results.
I have only ever been on one course where there was an official complaint put in to basi about the way the course was run (I didn’t get involved in the complaint but I know what went on) and I think that was sorted out to everyone’s satisfaction, so “maybe” a trainee’s rep could/would have just exacerbated the problem. Who knows ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wayne, in my other professional organisation (RICS), there is an a very active part of it for the training and newly qualified members. Not quite sure how they report back to the main board though.
I think what is needed is more representation on the board, rather than a "rep" specifically to represent trainees. (Hence why we should elect Coral!) As all board members should be looking after the interests of all members. Or what you are saying is right - they may just become someone to moan to.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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beanie1,
I love having a good moan
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| Wayne wrote: |
Can’t really see what a trainee’s rep would do that isn’t already done. They could (as we all do , complain about the costs (accommodation, transport, insurance, etc) of basi courses. But there’s really not a lot that basi can do about these.
Even worse (as I get from my students) you may get the situation of people using the trainee’s rep to complaining about course results. |
I think there's a lot that a Trainee Rep could do. In your examples they could give formal voice to why we sometimes get frustrated by BASI systems, listen carefully to the response and then report back to say that they either agree or disagree with why the systems are like they are. I'd be much more understanding if someone with a similar experience to me of BASI's work said that it's unfortunate but there are no viable ways of running the business differently. At the moment I'm left with a vague sense that my frustrations aren't understood.
In your second example I'd hope that a Trainees Rep would not get involved with appeals about course grades, simply make sure that there is an appropriate mechanism to deal with legitimate appeals.
This post might give the impression that I'm not happy with BASI. That's not the case, I'm very happy with my membership of it and the dealings I have with HQ, it's just that I think one or two things could be tweaked, including a Trainee Rep on Council.
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rob@rar, Aren't we all trainees, if we don't have ISTD ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ski wrote: |
| rob@rar, Aren't we all trainees, if we don't have ISTD ? |
Yes we are. I suspect that people with Level 3/ISIA and below form the significant majority of the membership. Yet everyone on Council seems to be ISTD and often a Trainer.
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rob@rar,
Again, not sure about that. Maybe it's just me. If I have a problem I go and sort it out. eg. On the last course (Lev 2 coach) I felt there was a problem with a lack of pre-course "stuff", so I spoke to Diane about it. I didn't (don't) need anyone to do this for me.
I think a "trainee's rep"(or whatever) may just have made this a little more formal as that's the nature of these things; forms to be filled in to fill leverarch files. If there is a serious problem there are already mechanisms in place for this. Just adding in another layer is never (almost never) a good idea.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wayne, I take your point about asking Diane, but the issue is that it only solves the problem for you - not everyone else. Poor communication of course requirements and changes is a consistent problem and it's not getting any better.
Another issue, for me, is the whole way in which course booking is managed. It works fine for BASI (fill the course and we run it, if we don't fill the course then we don't), but very badly for a trainee, who has to risk booking flights and accommodation at risk - or pay more to book them when the course is confirmed. A more trainee-centric focus would be to charge more for the courses - so that there's sufficient profit from the fully subscribed ones to run ones that aren't fully subscribed.
The whole ski sidecut thing. Not at all trainee focussed.
The unwillingness to run weekend courses.
Or Common Theory "down south".
I could go on.
I'm not unhappy, but the organisation is far from trainee focussed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Wayne wrote: |
rob@rar,
Again, not sure about that. Maybe it's just me. If I have a problem I go and sort it out. eg. On the last course (Lev 2 coach) I felt there was a problem with a lack of pre-course "stuff", so I spoke to Diane about it. I didn't (don't) need anyone to do this for me. |
I wouldn't want a Trainee Rep to ever get involved with that level of detail. They should not become "Grumbler in Chief". But I think there is room for someone on Council to currently be involved n going through the process of acquiring BASI qualifications. I think it will strengthen the organisation if that were the case, as well as being seen to be more representative of the membership that the organisation serves. If, for example, I was the Trainee Rep (this isn't a pitch for election, BTW ) and you came to me with a grumble about not getting course material on time I would suggest you get in touch with the office (which is what you did). But if many people said the same thing I think it would be worth flagging it up as an issue to be dealt with, either formally at a Council meeting or informally within HQ staff.
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rob@rar, Both SSGB and SSE have Athletes' Representatives, Ross G has been the SSGB one in the past.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rjs wrote: |
| rob@rar, Both SSGB and SSE have Athletes' Representatives, Ross G has been the SSGB one in the past. |
Very sensible, although I'm not sure that someone who has skied in the Olympics like Ross is typical of rank and file members of SSE
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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FlyingStantoni, rob@rar, Good points both.
At the end of the day BASI provide a product in a commercial environment, and a "Trainee Rep" would help keep things 'outwardly' focused.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| I take your point about asking Diane, but the issue is that it only solves the problem for you - not everyone else. |
Not really. It was too late for me, so any help Diane could give would be to people on future courses. She (and a very few others) can change the way courses are run and administered.
My problem was not with the course but the pre-course administration (sending out course details). This information is available (as we got it on the 1st day) and so could have been sent. This made it an admin problem and not a trainers problem, which is why I spoke to Diane, as she is in charge of that side of the courses.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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beanie1, just voted, thanks for heads up on this...
I agree about the lack of voice that the non ISTD's have in a not for profit members based organisation and am kinda curious about the membership makeup and drop out rate...
I believe that current membership numbers are in the 12,xxx range, someone mentioned around 5,000 current members and of that 270 ISTD's, so around 60% of those who qualified through BASI have let their qualifications lapse.
While BASI publish and keep track of the pass rate and total attendance for each course I think it would be useful to track the ratio of of the total qualified at a level to how many are currently active on an annual basis. Retirement, etc will play its part but if the ratios in the L2 and L3 ranks is constantly declining it says something is wrong with the industry or BASI itself and highlight things that needs addressing...
I have heard that many ISTD's once they go to France give up on BASI and join SIMS as they offer better insurance and member services.
While i understand that many L1's do it for the experience or a short gap year the total "drop out" rate sounds high to me.
Dont have a clue how many L2 or L3's there are in comparison to L1's and L4's but that would be interesting to know the makeup of the organisation.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Whoops,
I seemed to generate some opinions. I need not mean for the board to be proportionally represented by the members qualifications, but that it should not be quite so dominated by trainers and ISTD's. There does seem to be some general agreement from the posts that MAYBE the non ISTD's could do with a larger voice.
A Trainee Rep FlyingStantoni, that is a good idea.
I should go and vote now.......
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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"someone" could suggest it at the AGM ???
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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"someone" could suggest it at the AGM ???
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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"someone" could suggest it at the AGM ???
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Dunk, There used always to be Grade 3 and Grade 2 (old money) members of the board, but hardly anyone put themselves forward for it. I can remember one AGM when we had to accept a Grade 1 for the Grade 3 place because no-one put themselves forward. this is going back a bit, but if there's no lower grade representation these days that might explain it.
I used to go to all the AGMs I could (but not to Aviemore if I was in Surrey or vice-versa). It's a good way to meet a lot of old friends.
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As easiski, says, someone who is a full time instructor at the top of their profession is much more likely to put themselves forward for a Board role, than someone for whom ski teaching is a much smaller part of their life. I think Coral is the only L2 standing this year?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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beanie1, the structure of the Board makes it extremely unlikely for anyone who is not a full ISTD to apply unless they have legal, financial, marketing, or company secretary skills. I'd be surprised if anyone who was less than fully qualified applied for the Alpine Director, Snowboard Director, Telemark Director, etc; the Trainers have a representative (but not the Trainees!) who will be fully qualified; and I'm not sure of the criteria of the Ombudsman but it sounds like that needs to be a fairly experienced person. That leaves Legal Director, Finance Director, Marketing Director and Secretary which might be possibilities if an L1 - L3 had expertise in those areas, but then they would be seeking election on something other than their experience of ski instructing or working within the BASI system which for me would be the whole point of having a non-ISTD elected to the Board.
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rob@rar, are you going to the AGM? Good opportunity to raise the question?
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FAQ
