Ok so I have just noticed the Americans have two resorts open and I remember an email saying that they had been running the snow cannons for quite a few weeks in preparation. I was up in Tignes last week an noticed they were also running the cannons throughout the day.
Now I assume this is to make the ground wet and cold and so when it does finally freeze it stays frozen. But my question is this....
Who uses how much fake snow, who are the worst offenders? How big an impact would not using it have?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Huh? You live in the Tarentaise...surely you know that practically every resort has snow cannons galore...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
horizon, has, of course, I even know roughly how much water they have at their disposal, but what I would like to know is how much water they actually draw out in a typical season to make crap snow! For example I know Tignes hardly used theirs last season from Dec to May, but maybe other resorts did.
I see. You seem to have a lot of info, I guess the way you had asked the question didn't show that.
My guess is that various resorts would need to use more/less snowmaking depending on where the weather fronts come from in a specific season...of course in a good season most resorts would need much less snowmaking. To get any reasonable statistics you'd need to average over a longer period of time.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Sorry if my question puzzled you, I have been told I speak in riddles, must be something I drank.
I thought the vastly knowledgable resource of snowheads out there may be able to shed some light on this from an insider's or observers perspective. I am not doing a research paper, just interested in who relies most on water to make snow and therefore who might be construed as cheating or embellishing their snow record, not to mention being a little eco unfriendly.
St Anton they use 226 Snowcannons on 82 Kilometer of the Pistes around St. Anton, St. Christoph and Stuben (Not including Lech & Zurs,Sonnenkopf,Pettneu). They lay it down to 50cm depth.
Without it the resort would probably not be able to operate. All valley runs would be closed. They run the operation at night time even when there is plenty of natural snow throughout the season.
This is an area where the lift company has been investing heavily (millions) in holding reservoirs, pump stations, piping to guarantee top to bottom skiing. Off course warm temperatures kills the whole operation as it did two seasons ago prior to Xmas.
Many low lying resorts in Austria would be closed for good without "BESCHNEIUNGSANLAGE" (Snowmaking)
Ischgl has over 50% snowmaking capacity
* ca. 386 ha Marked Pistes in Ischgl
* ca. 120 ha Marked Pistes in Samnaun
* Total: ca. 506 ha Marked Pistes
Snowmaking Covergage
* Ischgl ca. 201 ha
* Samnaun ca. 67 ha
* Total: ca. 268 ha
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 13-10-09 9:22; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Source date Nov 30 2006. So this data is for Season 2005/2006
Kosten des Kunstschnee (artificial snow) am Arlberg
• 560.000 m³ Wasser
• ca. 1.500.000 m³ Kunstschnee
• ca. 4.000.000 m² oder 400 ha
beschneite Pistenfläche (marked ski pistes)
• Je nach Situation und Personaleinsatz (depending on the situation & personnel costs between €2 to €5 per cubic metre)
Preise von € 2.- bis € 5.- pro m³
• Rund 4 Millionen € Gesamtkosten oder
10,000 € pro ha als ein
Richtwert, der lokal schwankt (As a benchmark around €10K per hectare)
The water is FREE pumped straight out of the river & returned to the river when it melts. All the costs are in the infrastructure,energy supplies & staff
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 13-10-09 9:26; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
Wow, I remember hearing about the Austrians helicoptering in snow for the Hahnenkamm in 2007, i didn't realise it was so widely used though.
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I was gobsmacked to hear last year that they trucked snow into Kaprun to cover the Lechnerberg nursery slope! That slope must cover 10 - 15 hectares easily - I don't know how much that would cost
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geoff10 wrote:
I was gobsmacked to hear last year that they trucked snow into Kaprun to cover the Lechnerberg nursery slope! That slope must cover 10 - 15 hectares easily - I don't know how much that would cost
It does not matter about the cost it demonstrates that Austria can do it & that is a huge selling point
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
stanton wrote:
geoff10 wrote:
I was gobsmacked to hear last year that they trucked snow into Kaprun to cover the Lechnerberg nursery slope! That slope must cover 10 - 15 hectares easily - I don't know how much that would cost
It does not matter about the cost it demonstrates that Austria can do it & that is a huge selling point
Clearly it is great that they still can, but what is a concern is that they have to. I hope the Kaprun example was a blip. I saw some kind of Climate change ski doc on You Tube and remember them focussing on Austria for the worries of climate change on that country, but assumed they picked it arbitrarily, now I am beginning to wonder. Although I am sure there must be plenty of examples in other countries as well, I just know fewer details at the moment.
Apparently you could ski to Bourg St Maurice for a good part of the season until a decade or two ago, and cross country tracks used to run by the Isere, that's my small input, not really hard data though, sorry.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
My first ever trip was to Tignes in mid Dec and it had not snowed for 12 days and the canons were running every day I was there.
If there has not been enough natural snow to set a decent snow base, and it is cold enough, all resorts will run their snow cannons and Tignes is no different except that it is at quite a high altitude and should not really need them. Actually thinking about it why would any resort need cannons above 2000 m if it had a decent snow record ?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Any one know where the highest altitude snow canon is ?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rayscoops, Height, temp no longer an issue...Zermatt installed one of these this year up on the Glacier.
thefatcontroller, Jesus! That's amazing. I think I am going to stop leaving the fridge door open now.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I remember reading about the plus temp snowmakers on here. Didnt think they would have them up and running in resorts already! In plus 17 aswell! They are impressive, just wonder what the setup cost if for one of them?
Interesting article on snowmaking,recent aswell. Shows snow base production at Val Thorens 2300m+ and Im sure some produce it at greater altitudes.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I checked the Tignes website and they indicate that all their cannons are on from October, seems like a lot of water being used. Not sure if this has a negative effect on valley dwellers but can't see how it doesn't.
I was gobsmacked to hear last year that they trucked snow into Kaprun to cover the Lechnerberg nursery slope! That slope must cover 10 - 15 hectares easily - I don't know how much that would cost
It does not matter about the cost it demonstrates that Austria can do it & that is a huge selling point
Clearly it is great that they still can, but what is a concern is that they have to. I hope the Kaprun example was a blip. I saw some kind of Climate change ski doc on You Tube and remember them focussing on Austria for the worries of climate change on that country, but assumed they picked it arbitrarily, now I am beginning to wonder. Although I am sure there must be plenty of examples in other countries as well, I just know fewer details at the moment.
Apparently you could ski to Bourg St Maurice for a good part of the season until a decade or two ago, and cross country tracks used to run by the Isere, that's my small input, not really hard data though, sorry.
The European Alps have been melting for thousands of years. All countries are getting battered by higher temps and lower snowfall.
Chamonix valley (1000 meters) in France was buried under hundreds of meters of ice until a few thousand years ago.
The Alps are going to continue melting. We live in an interglacial period.
Snowguns and 'coptered snow will become more, not less, common in future decades.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Cooling Capacity 3000 kW
Max. Snow Making Capacity 960 ton Snow/day
Typical Power Consumption* 379 kW
Specific Power per Mass 9.5 kW/ton Snow
It surprised me to read last week that La Rosiere was running its snow cannons. Why, on earth, would they do that in October, when they supposedly get so much of the real stuff? I am delighted to say that not a single snow cannon is running in Les Saisies. It would be very uncomfortable when I go out for a walk this afternoon in 20 degrees and wall to wall sunshine.
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pam w, Me too, I can understand Tignes as they open early and the only cannons they have on are the routes back from the Glaciers but La Ros?
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pam w, thefatcontroller, Many resorts give their snowcannons a run in the autumn before everything freezes up to check everything works (and they they have tightened all the joints etc), as once winter sets in it is not possible to effect repairs on the majority of the system as it is under the snow in rock-solid frozen ground..
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
offpisteskiing, yes, I can see that makes sense. You see the odd chairlift spinning round for the same reason, I suppose.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
