 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hopefully a really simple question which is a follow on from my Monday to Monday question.
I know, trying to free market research here, but (hopefully) this is the right place to ask as, I assume, a few people on here go on skiing holidays (TO or DIY)
How much would you pay for a skiing holiday ?
( Answers in £’s or €’s please )
Jan or Feb (not half term) 2011 (maybe ?)
Holiday would include
Flight (Monday to Monday), Transfers, Ski hire (or carriage), full area lift pass, 3* hotel (twin e suite, half board).
Ski school would be extra (if req.) 12 hours (2 hrs per day X 6 days) £75
Please don’t give a “wishful” amount (I would also like a fully inc. holiday for £50 but….)
Just figures will do if you have time
My personal opinion is that this is a non-starter. Not being negative, but we have to look
Many thanks for your help
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 10-09-09 9:05; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Wayne, very much depends on 'where' - do you have a 'where'?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| cathy wrote: |
| Wayne, very much depends on 'where' - do you have a 'where'? |
Sorry - should have said, Folgarida 
Lift pass would include all pistes in Folgarida, Di Mario, Marilleva
Basically up to now we have been able to get the
Wet hires & slots (maybe, as not really published yet but should remain as per ??)
Hotels
School
Equipment,
Coaches
etc etc etc
It all comes down now to will people pay the price to make a mark up %
Looking for some free advice from people that know what they are talking about, so here I am !!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Wayne, I'm probably not your target market, but we usually try and look around for a cheap deal and go from there. I didn't organise anything last year but I'd be aiming for £300 - £350 excluding lift pass. Whether I'd manage that is another question . . . . .
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Previous two half-term holidays (DIY) have been in the order of £750 - £850 total spend. Flights, car hire, accomodation, ski hire, lift pass, food and drink (rarely or never eating 'out')
The people in the groups who stumped up for tuition payed more obviously.
I find hotel half-board less appealing than cooking my own excellent fare, but others who prefer lazier holidays would disagree.
Reducing the research costs is appealing, I spent weeks and weeks on the internet organising my DIY stuff and time==money so would pay a bit extra to not have to do that.
Monday to Monday means an extra day of annual leave compared with the norm, which carries value/cost with it.
*licks finger, waves in air
£900pp absolute tops.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Hang on, you don't include free boozing do you.
£800 tops.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Note for anyone thinking about 2011 prices.
The availability of Wet Hires has deceased "significantly" from mid to end 2010. That means the TO's industry expects an increase in ski holiday market - which "may" mean an increase in costs across the board.
Just a word to the wiser (keep it to yourself though)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
david@mediacopy, paulio,
Many thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Wayne wrote: |
Note for anyone thinking about 2011 prices.
The availability of Wet Hires has deceased |
Is that chartering a plane, or something from one of those websites that I try to avoid?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I like the massive difference between my numbers and David's 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Is that chartering a plane, or something from one of those websites that I try to avoid? |
We don't do that
*******************
Edit of cost up post above OMG that was quick
Just had e mail confirming that one of the low cost airlines (no names) "may" be jumping big time into the Wet Hire market - which "may" (due to increased supply), reduce costs - mind you we wouldn't touch em with a barge pole
OMG, my heads hurts with all this (costs up, costs down) What is going on with the world, sure is used to be simpler when I wuz a lad
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Wayne, I'd pay more if it was somewhere I wanted to go & it was a good hotel in a good location. As I don't really know much about Folgarida or the normal costs there I'd probably treat it as somewhere I'd go for a cheap-ish 'extra' hols. Realistically, and thinking about what costs might be in 2011, I guess that would be about £500-£600 for the travel and accommodation, & lift pass on top of that.
PS - what are Wet Hires?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I used to think £1000 per week to cover everything, now I think of £1500 per week. But I have not really done the sums and so it may be even more! It is a holiday, so best not to spend to much effort on worrying about money. Budget covers £900 for chalet (with half-board and travel), £150 for lift pass, £300 for ski guiding, £? lunches, and £? beer. Wonder what have I forgotten!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
yes, what are wet hires?
Last time we went to folgarida we paid £600 for flights, transfers, h/b accomomdation, local lift pass (£30 upgrade for marilleva), kit hire and lessons. Admittedly it was lat minute, but it was in March, so I'd be interested if the price were under £600, and flights were weekends. Monday flights wouldn;t be of interest, unless it were bank holiday
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Wayne, when I used to ski holiday, DIY, no lessons, usually including hire, I reckoned £110 per day all in (ie incl. drinks & food).
At the time, you would not have caught me doing Mon-Mon - loses you two full ski days and costs an extra leave day. No chance, no way, for me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| cathy wrote: |
Wayne, I'd pay more if it was somewhere I wanted to go & it was a good hotel in a good location.
PS - what are Wet Hires? |
Yes I agree with you totally. Me n Mrs Wayne went to Val D Isere (yeah I know me in France aaarrrgggghhh still got post traumatic shock). The hotel was brilliants, right by the slope, etc but cost shed loads more than I could have got else ware. Note to self. Don't let Mrs Wayne look at holiday brochures in future
Wet Hire = You hire the plane, with pilot, other staff, plus you get the ground handling and airport & baggage facilities laid on.
Dry Hire = you get the plane and you supply pilot, other staff, airport facilities, etc
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
under a new name,
Good points, thanks for the help and feedback (this is the sort of stuff we need)
Just a point though - you would still get a full week so you wouldn't lose any ski days
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Wayne, Well traveling as a single, in January, I have usually managed to get a package of Flight, ski carriage, transfers, half board in 3* hotel for under £400, with the lift pass then taking it up to a total of £500-£550.
That has been in Austria apart from one trip to Campitello, and has been achieved by booking fairly (but not very) late - 7-10 weeks before departure.
But I would certainly be looking to keep the total under £600 for that package.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
alex_heney,
Many thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Wayne, I think £600 tops for that package but Monday to Monday is a deal breaker.
I suspect you mean "wet leasing"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Including lift pass for that area £700 but never on a Monday. We do a boys trip to Val D'Isere every March and reckon on about £650 plus lift pass. Skiing is better than dolomites hence max price would pay is less for your resort. Having said all that don't think the group would change venue anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
For Italy £650 ish I think but you can double that if you can guarantee 30cm of fresh everynight (& avy safe conditions).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| I suspect you mean "wet leasing" |
Nope - hire. We're not big enough to go for the lease. Well we could, but look what's happened in the past to "lots" of other companies.
No, best keep it ad hoc. We tend to do things very slowly compared with other TO's and we understand this means we miss out on some opportunities but, it's our method and we're still here and doing very well.
However the groups dept of **** ? are now offering scheduled ad hoc groups on a contract (they must be really skint) but will speak to em at WTM soon to see what the truth is.
stoatsbrother, PsychoBabble, fatbob,
Thank you for the advice
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Admin tried to get sH 1 to fly last year for the eosb.... One way!
How much do you pay for a plane for a day and what back up is there for when planes go tech?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| How much do you pay for a plane for a day and what back up is there for when planes go tech? |
It doesn't work like that. Sorry.
When "hiring" planes think one word and one word only (it's all that matters) "Positioning". OK you can add another and think "Positioning Costs". Remember that Triangles are stupidly (and prohibitively) expensive.
There are lots of planes available to rent but the triangle make it better to not even think about it.
There are be people who could do it for Mr Admin on this forum without the Positioning Costs. (not us BTW)
But then you would need people to put down a deposit and that is (I think) not the nature of web forums so doubt it would work.
Best bet would be to ask people to make their own way or get a big TO (like Tui, Crystal, etc.) to sort the whole thying out for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
I have kept a record for my last few years skiing (unit in Sterling Pound)
Year- 2010- 2009- 2008- 2007- 2006
Crossing + fuel- 844- 655- 712- 681- 691
Accommodation- 1555- 1991- 554- 1014- 634
Ski pass- 360- 1066- 535- 416- 618
food- 710- 1465- 612- 612- 854
Non skiing expenditure- 0- 0- 300- 973- 105
Total- 3469- 5177- 2713- 3696- 2901
Pure skiing - 3469- 5177- 2413- 2723- 2797
No day skied- 12- 15- 11- 12- 14
cost /skiing day/couple- 289- 345- 219- 227- 207
The figures are NOT representative of an average skier because
(1) We normally do a 2 weeks trip. Except in 2008 we skied 3 weeks in Switzeralnd.
(2) The cost is all in for a couple, without sharing cost with a third party.
(3) year 2010 figures are just a budget estimate. The only unsure bits are the cost for fuel and food.
(4) We skied on an average 8 to 10 resorts in each trip, go anywhere in the Alps
(5) We spend on next to nothing on alcohol
(6) We dine out most of the time
(7) We stay at off-resort accommodations but ski the expensive places like Zermatt, Davos, St Moritz, Lech, Ischgl etc.
( We carry our own equipment and insist on having an ensuite double/twin room to ourselves.
(9) Most of the booked accommodations require a driving time of between 10 to 20 minutes to the chairlift stations.
(10) We would choose access points, resorts, countries and time of visit to avoid queues.
(11) Our way of skiing involves pay the premium for the ski pass by the market daily rate without any discount.
(12) If it isn't obvious we never fly to the Alp to ski but have done so for Norway, Sweden, Iran, Japan and Canada. The above is for the Alps only.
Thus for a £2500-£3000 skiing trip for a couple for two week the equivalent weekly cost per head would be £625-£750. In it there is a hidden saving of crossing the channel only only once. The decpreciation of the vehicle is excluded.
Not suggesting the above for anyone. It is just a demonstration of another way to skin the cat.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
saikee,
Excellent information.
You will already know that you can get this cheaper (as less hassle) from a TO.
I think this comes down to the argument of DIY v TO. Your figures show that a TO would be cheaper but you obviously like DIY. I don't think there is anything we could do that would turn you into a TO convert as we would be looking at around £590 PP in twins (fully inc flights, lift pass, hire or carrage, meals, etc).
This forum has lots of people who just like the whole DIY thing and thats really good for them but, of course we are talking about the TO people.
Oh yeah. Following all the feedback from here (and another forum) and from e mails we have decided to dump the Monday to Monday idea and look at for Sun to Sun.
Still not sure there is enough market for this though even at @ 590 fully inc. We will keep looking at it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
£590 fully inc for half term looks like a great price to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
paulio,
| Wayne wrote: |
Jan or Feb (not half term) 2011 (maybe ?) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
My normal budget is around £500 for the holiday itself, comprising flights, transfers and single ensuite room (or twin for sole occupancy) in half board hotel or chalet. I would not consider self-catering, nor driving to resort. I'm usually spoilt for choice with the major TOs with this budget although I never travel during school holidays.
Obviously I have lift pass, ski hire and spending money on top of that, usually around £300 all in. Then I have a couple of other costs to factor in such as airport car parking and cattery.
So a grand per holiday easily does it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Wayne, ah. Still alright though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
£590 including liftpass would be a good enough price for me to consider it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Wayne, Sunday to Sunday miles better. We go with Mark Warner who do this. Airports quieter and the Saturday skiing much better as all the TO's tend to do the Sat to Sat thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| queen bodecia wrote: |
My normal budget is around £500 for the holiday itself,
Obviously I have lift pass, ski hire and spending money on top of that, usually around £300 all in.
So a grand per holiday easily does it. |
Think there "may" be a market here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Think there "may" be a market here.
|
At 590 all in I'd be keen. And would be able to bring a few others too!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
£590 all in for a sunday departure would tempt me. I enjoyed folgarida and would like to go back so I can get over to Marilleva
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Jumper, nbt,
One swallow doesn't make a summer ?
But we will keep looking at this.
Many thank for all the feedback
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sorry Wayne forgot about the Monday to Monday bit, so maybe £100 off my earlier estimate to compensate for the extra day off work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
That's why I'm in charge of coming up with 'suggestions' as to where we stay 
