Tough family skiing in North America - where?

A snowHead

We're hopefully back to North America this winter, and we're looking for some challenging skiing to keep our three tearaway lads entertained. If a run isn't double-black, it offends their delicate egos: they can comfortably tackle just about any named run that I've ever encountered, but they particularly like steeps, glades, big bumps and simple chutes. They're less experienced with deep powder, and really deep stuff (>18" of fresh snow) could be a problem for the younger two (11 and 12 when we travel) due to their size and weight.

We don't care about nightlife (they ski so hard that they're too knackered to go out in the evening) and we'd prefer slopeside (so we can start early) self-catering (they get bored in restaurants) accommodation. Flight and transfer complexity isn't an issue, but queues might be as half term clashes with President's weekend. We need cast-iron reliability - a transatlantic ski trip for five is a major investment so we're not likely to go twice this season.

Our current shortlist is looking like this:

- Two centre trip to Revelstoke and either Kicking Horse or our old favourite, Panorama
- Alta or Snowbird, but we need to be convinced that the enormous cost of lift passes and accommodation there is justified by the skiing experience
- Big Sky, although we went there a few years back and I don't remember a great deal of gladed stuff; perhaps my memory's faulty, though. I'm also worried about queues for the tram

We figure the main Colorado resorts will be rammed that weekend, and Jackson Hole's sadly out of the question as we can't seem to find suitable flights. Anyone care to give some advice?

A snowHead

all 3 are great options. We did revvie/KH last year. Fine stuff. I think Alta/Snowbird is worth it, and i'd actually not buy the joint pass, just ski one or the other each day (if it works out cheaper). Both are individually big enough not to need to go elsewhere. They will be a little busiera t Presidents Weekend tho.

Only ever seen lines at the Big Sky tram on big powder days. Generally, it's ski on. I seem to remember a new lift put in last year too which went somewhere on lone pine, and with Moonlight Basin, there's a huge amount of terrain.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

>Alta or Snowbird

I would highly recommend basing yourself in the south east corner of Salt Lake City and hiring a car. You can then visit Alta, Snowbord, Solitude and Brighton very easily, and have Deer valleym Park city and the Canyons only a little further away, with exotic location such as Powder mountain available too. This reminds me that I said I'd write up some tips on Utah for various snowheads, which I've forgotten to do: I;ll get onto it as soon as I get chance

back to Utah, we had a great time in the various resorts. I only visited the resorts in the Cottonwood Canyons as Mrs NBT fell ill, but I nonetheless had some great skiing (as did Mrs NBT before she fell ill).

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Hi,

The cost of one trip to the Sates could probably mean that you and your family could go away twice in Europe (Half Term and Easter) There are some fabulous deals around.......just a thought Very Happy

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

If it is gnarly skiing that you are after then Mammoth will have a lot of it . Cheaper flights to Los Angeles than a lot of other places....you do then have a drive but do it the day after you fly and it is no big problem.

Squaw Valley and some of the other Tahoe resorts have some very tough stuff. Ditto on cost of flights to San Francisco and a shorter drive.

We went in April to those resorts so dont know on crowds in mid Feb. The snow record, especially Mammoth, is v good.....our first day was 14inches of fresh snow. Even rank amateurs in deep snow (ie us) could have a good day. My kids are of a similar approach to your description of yours, but are slightly older. They were mid to late teens when we went

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Jonny Jones, I'm a bore about it - but JH would be great and cover all that - and isn't that slammed presidents weekend - I am surprised you cannot get flights... Have you tried AA via Dallas? I suspect you are right about Colorado being slammed though.

KH's suitability will be crucially dependent on the conditions. I am not sure I'd rush there unless I knew there was powder.

Our family holiday is Utah this year.

[edit] I am getting plenty of feb flights come up on AAs site.

GreyCat, ski much in US/Canada do you? snowHead

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Depending on how you're booking (TO vs DIY), you may want to wait till after New Year before finalizing on the WHERE part.

In general, all of your choices have good snow record. By Janurary, you'll know what the base is like and whether the truely gnarly stuff are covered by sufficient snow.

Another thing to keep in mind. The distance between Salt Lake City and Jackson Hole (and JH to Big Sky) isn't that great. You can actually move from one to the other if the forecast is calling for big weather system hitting one vs. the other. That is, if your lodging isn't locked in to such a point that you can't leave...

I haven't beed to Tahoe but the reputations of Squaw and Kirkwood are impressive for serious skiing. If the El Nino does happen, it might be massive snow there too. I hope to get down there this year to find out.

abc is right about booking late, but as you're going President's Week, on-hill accommodations are going to be full. So I appreciate your dilema.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

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Thanks for the advice, guys.

Tahoe / Squaw valley is somewhere that I'd completely overlooked, having mistakenly thought it was a drive-to-the-slopes-in-the-morning kind of place (I really want to go slopeside if I can). More investigation needed, methinks - thanks for the tip. And unless there's some cunning camera angle at work in the picture above, Jim's drop certainly looks interesting.

stoatsbrother, I'll re-check the position on flights to JH because I'm very aware that it seems to tick all of the boxes for me. I certainly can't get there from my local airports (Cardiff or Bristol), and flights from Heathrow were hideously expensive when I last looked. I'm also interested in your comment about conditions at Kicking Horse - have you had a bad experience there that I could learn from?

nbt, With kids, I'd really rather not have to drive from SLC to the resorts every morning but I wouldn't rule it out if I saved enough cash that way ( everyone has their price Very Happy

). What's the drive like - how long does it take and, on powder days, does every SLC resident take the same road out of town?

snow reports

Jonny Jones, I have done the same as nbt, it is an easy drive up from Sandy to either Cottonwood canyon. I can't remember exactly how long it took but it didn't feel like a major trip. Most SLC residents will be at work, even on powder days. You can also take the bus, I had to one day as my hire car didn't have chains and there was too much snow on the road.

Hi there,

Thought I'd contribute my two cents on Tahoe - I used to live in San Fran and skied there a lot.

There are about a dozen seperate areas close to the lake - Squaw, Kirkwood and (to a lesser extent) Heavenly have the toughest skiing - plenty of trees and features 'off trail'.

Slopeside accomodation is available at a few of the ski areas but your best bets are South Lake Tahoe (for Heavenly) or at Squaw Valley. From these bases, you can explore the other areas - Alpine Meadows, although small is worth a day early in the trip. Suggest you avoid Northstar and Sierra at Tahoe - both very cruisy. (Alternatively the Kings Beach area (North Shore - CA/NV border) has loads of self catering cabins and is good for access to Squaw and Alpine.)

President's weekend is the busiest of the year - accom is at a premium, with lots of weekenders from San Fran.

You could combine with Mammoth - about a three hour drive South, which is likely to be slightly less busy for Presidents due to the more difficult access from LA and SF.

If you did go for two-centre, consider flying to Reno (about an hour from Tahoe) - easiest connections are via LA (various airlines), SF (United) or Vegas (BA + Southwest) - the SF/LA options seem to be £420ish (Expedia). This results in significantly less driving than flying to SF.

Finally, snow at Tahoe (and Mammoth) tends to fall in huge dumps (up to 10 feet over a few days), followed by a quiet (sunny) spell of a couple of weeks. You are unlikely to get the regular top ups that Colorado and Utah often have. Consequently, you should have loads of snow depth by President's, but Spring conditions are reasonably likely for at least a part of a trip at any time of the Season. Being at slightly higher altitude, Mammoth has a better powder record than the Tahoe areas.

Cheers

You know it makes sense.

Jonny Jones, If you're mobile then don't under-estimate Lake Louise. You've already identified Kicking Horse and Panorama so possible road trip (+ Fernie).

JH is everything it's written up to be (or is was when I went). It's actually relatively small compared to a lot of European resorts but you can ski just about every bit of it (well you can if you're good enough). Flights from around 500 pp is about what you'd expect ??

If you're considering Big Sky,you could do a two stay with JH, just travel after skiing to avoid missing time on the slope. And you could do a day or two (snow mobiling) in Yellowstone, which I'd really recommend.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

we stayed here, in Cottonwood heights,

http://www.wfsa.com/properties/Cottonwood-Heights/index.html

which may be bigger than you need. Solitude is the closest resort, it took us 20 minutes - Alta is the furthest of the cottonwood resorts, that took 40mins. Most of the resorts are geared to day trippers rather than people staying in resort, although there was limited accomodation

A snowHead

How about a Fernie/ WHitefish combo?

A snowHead

PS

WE were in Fernie for thursday to monday of Alberta's family day weekend which coincides with Presidents week. Friday was quiet, sat and sunday fine, monday quiet again.

Think we will go for same nights this year as the previous year we went to LL on the sunday and it was awful, really really busy.

Gryph

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

LL by no means guaranteed great skiing. It needs a lot of snow to open its steeps - this rarely happens before late February. You'd be very unlucky to get dodgy conditions in KH in mid feb, and Revvie should be fine, possibly superb.

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The problem with staying off hill in SLC is powder days. If its snowy in teh canyon, its a struggle to get there early, and if its closed, you twiddle your thumbs. The pow goes quickly enough at the Bird/Alta, and if you're not there when lifts open, you'll see little legendary fresh. If you're a powderhound, staying offhill is a dubious economy.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

gortonator, I've skied a # of days up Little Cottonwood with deep fresh and never had the road closed and was always up for first chair although it is busier on Pres day weekend. Even spent a day skiing the tram at Snowbird with over 14" of fresh and skied fresh Pow all day.

With kids I would also be more inclined at short drives Tahoe would be fun, JH with a fly into SLC. It may not be European crowds but Pres weekend is the busiest ski weekend outside of XMAS. UT is El Nino neutral and Tahoe sees more snow.

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pinhead, I've had road closed twice, one most of day, one until 10am. Luckily we were at Snowbird - it was sweet Wink

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I've overlooked the President's Day weekend part. My experience has been it's slightly better (less crowded) at "destination" area (JH, Big Sky) than day-tripping area (Tahoe, SLC). At least during the actual weekend itself, which can indeed be a mob scence at some of the day-tripping areas (e.g. Heavenly).

After all it is free

Tahoe all the way.

Between Squaw, Kirkwood, Alpine, Sierra and Heavenly you should find plenty of entertainment. Head to vrbo.com and get yourself a condo. Not sure how long you're going for, but Kirkwood do a $379 midweek pass that pays for itself in five or six days.

gortonator, My brother worked at Alta 84/85, I stumbled out of his room onto the chair many a morning.
I do love SLC as it usually snows as I've drive in to go ski, the Interstate now... Smile

Jonny Jones, Choices so many choices, I'd vote for Tahoe/Squaw, accommodations slopeside are going to go quicker that weekend but Tahoe and SLC will still both have places but you'll have the drives, course staying in town about covers the car rental over slopeside rates.

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Jonny Jones, The thing with booking flights to JH is that sometimes they don't seem to release the flights into JAC till later than the international flights become available - and the routes are tricky. Sometimes better to go to the Airlines websites rather than expedia/opodo etc too. I would strongly advise the AA via DFW way over going via ORD or DIA. But consider packing your boots in hand luggage. Once you arrive at JAC it is a 15 minute drive/shuttle/taxi to town or about 40 minutes to the hill if you stay at Teton village.

I have been to JH at Xmas, New Year and Presidents weekend. It doesn't get that bad, as it isn't a place people can day-trip to so the available accommodation limits the punters. The new tram has made a difference - but it ain't huge by European standards - only 100 passengers. There are usually stashes of powder in the trees for a couple of days after a fall. In about 80 days at JH I have only ever had to queue more than 10 minutes for a chair when the top/skiers right of the mountain was closed for avvy control.

There are also sometimes some very good presidents weekend gear sales (check out Skinny skis - and Sports Authority - which usually has a discount voucher in the freebie local rag)

gortonator, which is why we are getting off the hill at snowbird the night before we leave this year and slumming it at a Holiday Inn in SLC...

snow reports

Something of interest to those thinking of heading to Tahoe is the Ski Lake Tahoe Six Pack ticket, http://skilaketahoe.com/cms/ski-resorts/lift-tickets.html it offers 6 day tickets valid at various combinations of the 7 participating resorts for $269, a very substantial saving over the daily rack rate you pay at the ticket office.

Kirkwood's mid-week season tickets are mentioned above, unfortunately the price goes up tonight on them and something to remember for the Tahoe resorts, the cheaper season tickets are blacked out over President's Day weekend and a couple of other peak holiday weekends. That said, if you plan ahead, you can pick up a Kirkwood 6-wood Season Pass (valid Sun to Fri) for $199 in the summer! Last years addition of the Look Out Vista T-bar at Kirkwood has lifted some amazing previously hike to terrain in Thunder Saddle.

If you have never been to San Francisco and you are heading to Tahoe, I'd highly recommend flying into SFO and spending at least a few days in San Francisco (either at the start or end) of your holiday.

One other tit bit of info for the Tahoe area, from San Francisco you can get to South Lake Tahoe with Amtrak for less than 1/5th of the cost to Fly to Reno from SFO, from where you still need to either take a coach or hire a car to travel back West to Lake Tahoe.

Damn the censorship filter thingy. There was a great tit in my garden earlier, have also seen a blue tit, crested tit and every so often a long tailed tit. Shocked

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

greg66, Thanks for the thought, but we want to go at half term and in Whistler that clashes with the winter olympics.

But we've made our decision now, and we've booked flights to Jackon Hole. President's and the thought of tracked-out powderdrove us away from Utah and California, and, as we've previously travelled to Big Sky and been to Canada in three out of the last four winters, we thought a change would be good. Thanks for the push, stoatsbrother - flights to JH seem to be strange beasts that vary hugely in price and availability between sites, and a wider search yielded results. We got ours from Expedia in the end.

Now all we have to decide is where to stay and whether we should head up to Big Sky for a few days. Anyone have any thoughts about either point?

And thanks for the advice so far. It's been really helpful and has given us a fair amount to consider for future trips.

A snowHead

Jonny Jones, Nice one...

Re accommodation - how many of you? Do you want to be in town (livelier) or out at the hill? Do you want flash, cute or cheap?

A snowHead

stoatsbrother, my first instinct was to stay on the hill because of the hassle getting 3 kids out in the morning and because of the extra flexibility - anyone who gets knackered can quit early that way. But the kids are getting older now so tiredness is less of an issue, and it's easier to get them up for an early breakfast now they're even more keen than I am to get onto the slopes early.

So I'm thinking the town might be good - I understand it's only about 20 mins drive to the ski area? Cheap sounds good (remember, I have to multiply the price by five... ouch!) but not to the point where it intrudes on my enjoyment. A reasonably well specced 3 bed condo is what we normally look for. JH central reservations recommended the Sun King condos for what seemed like a reasonable price of $4,450 (9 nights including lift passes for 8 days), but they've had some rotten reviews on Trip Advisor so I think I'll give them a miss. I was also offered a slopeside condo for an eye-watering $9,833... I think I'll give that one a miss, too!

Cute is definitely better than flash and I'd rather not have a 1970s motel. Does that paint a picture?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Jonny Jones, Snow King (which is I suspect what they meant) is out of the way - despite some snowHeads giving positive reviews - I would avoid. The Ranch Inn is central and has Suites which sleep 4 - but with double beds. What we have done there twice is to get a suite with an adjoining double room - meaning you have sleeping room for up to 6, two bathrooms and a kitchen. But there is no swimming pool and it is functional if spacious. Most of the condos are out at the hill. The Parkway Inn and Alpine House are worth going to - but I was surprised to see on TA that the latter's excellent breakfasts are no longer included...

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Thanks, stoatsbrother, this gives us something useful to go on. And you're right: it was Snow King, not Sun King - must have been the unseasonal Spetember weather that distracted my brain...

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Snow King is old but it does have the advantage that the kids can ski right at Snow King and pay by the hour if JH doesn't wear them out. I have had a good hour or more there on a day we arrived or were leaving the town of JH, just for the extra kicks and had great fun skiing.

On another note you should have at least 2 or 3 days planned for Targhee, let the weather dictate, check the reports, they get much more snow than JH typically, and stashes can be found the day after JH is tracked out. Enjoy

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pinhead, says a famous potato...

But yes - one day if viz is good and there was a dump 2-3 days ago

Help!!

Tough family skiing in North America - where?

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