 Poster: A snowHead
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Here is (maybe your one and only) chance to actually alter the way in which a TO operates.
If any other TO’s are reading this may want to note that answers?
Please don’t mention individual companies - just problems in general.
Tell you us what you don’t like about ski holiday with a TO
Of course if you always go DIY, then you could say what makes you go DIY rather than with a TO.
Not individual one-off problems i.e. The TV wasn’t working in our room or the toast was cold at breakfast, etc, but rather general problems and things that you don’t like.
Just to start you off, I asked the same question a while ago and these are some of the answers I got. (not in any order, just cut-n-pasted). I have cleaned up some of the answers ?
Arriving at the airport and having to wait for hours for another flight to arrive before the coach can depart.
Being moved from the hotel (and on some occasions the resort) we booked to another.
Being hassle on arrival to buy optional extras
Welcome meeting being primarily about sales rather than giving resort information
Flight surcharges
Gap year reps
Inaccurate brochures/website descriptions of facilities and locations
Extremely small chalet rooms
Sleeping in the corridors in chalets
Old or tatty hire equipment
Ryan Air, BA, KLM, Easyjet, BMI, FlyBe, etc
Hidden charges
Hotels that are described as near the piste but really miles away
Ski instructors that can’t speak English (at all)
Ski instructors that take you down runs you are not comfortable with
Ski instructors that turn up late for classes
Etc
Etc
Unusually, we really do want to hear what you don’t like about the TO industry. Just a little bit (more) market research.
Many thanks
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 11-09-09 16:44; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We have been with 2 TO's quite regularly over the past 6 seasons. They were both terrific.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Frosty the Snowman,
Really looking for negatives here (if there are any)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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What's a TO? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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silly timed flights & over generous allowances for getting to airport, meaning getting up at 4/5am and then stuck at the airport for hours
welcome meetings as you said above
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lucky I guess, not really had much in the way of problems. Maybe I'm not much of a whinger, or I'd done my homework prior.
No's 3 & 4 in the above list is about it. Pushy, hard sell resorts reps who just won't leave you alone. Skin like a pachyderm, "what part of no don't you understand?". Thankfully getting rarer, these days, as most reps are more chilled.
John.
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I have went on but a single proper tour op operated ski trip, and have done DIY ever since, with one exception where I used Snowtrex who are sort of "half a TO". Here's why:
Discovered I could do it cheaper DIY (or at least that used to be true, indicators might be that the tide is turning a bit).
Not particularly interested in all the 'luxury' pampering stuff that TO hols seem often to be geared around (saunas and pools and stuff - can't see the attraction myself).
Don't like regimented meals (e.g. having to eat in the same bloody hotel all week, at a particular time).
Don't like sharing a (probably delayed, slow, noisy) transfer bus with a load of other babbling stinking humans. I'd rather drive.
Hate having some chummy rep constantly badgering me to pay for extra things and go on rubbish dogsledding excursions that I'm not interested in, and expecting a tip for his trouble.
Generally just discovered that perversely I get a kick out of DIY trips that go well, so I can say 'I did that all by myself, mother!'.
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Why focus on negatives when some do a really good job ?
I have been with TO's on most of my trips and they have all been great (some experiences better than expected).
If you are relying on someone else to organise what you can't be bothered to then you can't moan . end of
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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paulio, Excellent 
DebbiDoesSnow, because if we ask what you do like it will sound like a sale pitch which it isn't. Just interested to see if people who presumably do go on quite a few trips have the same dislike as we came up with in the office a few days ago. Our list is over 60 points that we wouldn't like. Just comparing.
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Wayne, bear in mind that I'm a pervert though. All the things I dislike (convenience, having my meals cooked for me, jacuzzis) are for most people the definition of what a hioliday is at its very core.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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paulio,
You may be interested in this.
Last Half Term I asked one of the hotels to count the number of times that our clients used the hotel sauna. Not 1 (nil, zilch, nowt) in a whole week.
But when asked why they choose that particular hotel the sauna was high on the list. Go figure, as I can't work it out.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
over generous allowances for getting to airport, meaning getting up at 4/5am and then stuck at the airport for hours
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You'd be the first to whinge your t*ts off if you got stuck in traffic and missed the flight though, hmmm?
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Wayne, that's fascinating, genuinely.
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You know it makes sense.
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| DebbiDoesSnow wrote: |
| If you are relying on someone else to organise what you can't be bothered to then you can't moan . end of |
Not sure about that.
I can't be bothered to make my own bread, but if it's moldy from the supermarket, then I'll whinge like a good un.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Why 'don't mention companies'?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wayne, paulio, oh come on, that's obvious. How much stuff have you got lying about your house which you bought thinking it would be really fun/useful/etc and never used? Same thing with the saunas.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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snowheads - admin's very slow at getting the buttons up. Mind you, the week is always worth waiting for. 
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 11-09-09 17:17; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wayne, for us, family of 4, DIY = flexibility of travel dates and times (often avoiding usual transfer days) and being able to eat when and where we want. We drive/self-cater, go out to eat maybe three nights of hols or so. Quite like the little bit of organising it takes.
Flexibility is the main thing.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| Why 'don't mention companies'? |
Contrary to (some) opinion most TO's really do try hard to get things right. If you have a specific problem then e mail them, and I'm sure they will try their best to sort it out. But by adding names here you are only giving one side of the story and that is never really fair. Hope you agree.
We are just some market rearch and hope to get to a list of 100 things Not To Do soon.
Names of other companies won't reallt help (them or you)
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Welcome meetings - I came here to ski, I only have 6 days, I don't want to listen to rep drivel - always skip them
I want my lift pass in advance so I can get the first lift not when a rep decides to give it to me, I also want to get my skis early (if I rented) not when the rep decides and 100 people are all there at once
Long check in queues for charter flights
Long waits for transfer buses since you have to wait for everyone on the flight to sort themselves out
Being lumped together with a load of brits in a foreign country, I want to get away from brits if I go abroad!
Equipment hire usually works out as poor value (never hired through a TO but family has) the hire shop will dig out old crappy gear
Only go to well known resorts. Probably a positive really since the nice places don't get spoiled by TOs and brits
The last time I used a TO was 8 years ago and I have never looked back. I hate the inflexibility and extra hassle.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Welcome meetings - I came here to ski, I only have 6 days, I don't want to listen to rep drivel - always skip them
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So you're that irritating berk who claims that 'no-one told me' when breakfast is served, what time the bar opens, where the ski lockers are, why you need not to throw away the lift pass receipt .................... etc. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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narc, you wouldn't read it. They never read anything they're given, and then get all irate with you because 'you should have told me'.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Agree - airport check-in. Especially on the way home because this time when we are all on coaches and they tend to all arrive at the departure airport at exactly the same time - and unfortunately this time we are leaving the mountains.
Also there is always way too much chat on the transfer bus. I have reached the extreme limit of how many times I can handle the coach driver gag (This is our coach driver Enrique - it's a special day for him today and do you know why? (silence) - Yes today is special because he has at last just passed his driving test...).
Lastly, the empowered rep thing is starting to get on my nerves. This is when the rep with the mic claims that he is changing the route to the hotel to make it faster - or he has sorted out a fast channel just for us through the airport. Nearly always a fib. 
Still, must not moan, they mostly do a good job.
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Inghams rep in Zermatt kept visiting the hotel to catch me during the day when I was obviously skiing and wondered why I wasn't ther. Never did see her.
I've used TO's for ski trips 3 times and they have all been fine. It comes down to cost, they are usually far too expensive at half term and Easter (which is my gripe) which are my main trips, which is why I usually DIY.
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You know it makes sense.
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Lizzard true, but it genuinely is one of the reasons we no longer use TOs .
Smaller buses could do it - I recall one trip - semi-TO if you will, organised by the hotel owners in Bareges - load up the bags on the bus, then ski in the morning, change on the mini-bus, arrive in airport 1 hour before flight - home for tea. Perfect.
its been a while, so perhaps slightly old fashined biasses.
So what else? -
In fact it is the transfer 'experience' that is the worst bit - the waiting for the flight from Manchester before you can leave. The enforced stop at a cafe on route (discount for the rep?... surely not). Stopping at EVERY. Damn. chalet, hotel, pension, cow shed in the village before they get to yours. And yes, the rising at stupid o'clock to go back to the cattle market that is Lyon.
Of course when you DIY you do miss the exciting coach transfer game of "Which of these sad individuals is staying in the same accomodation as us?" Its fascinating in a sick kind of way: you just know if you pick the worst possibly dressed / loudest / latest arrival/ most badly organised/ largest family with under 5s, in the hope that your track record of always being wrong about guessing games, you're boluxed. Winning this game is in fact losing.
In fact, that neatly encapsulates it: I don't use a TO because of the other people who do. Snob, moi?
Overall though, if you ignore the pleas to buy things you neither want nor need, don't expect the welcome drink to be anything special or useful, don't stress about getting your ski pass - they will turn up eventually - and don't expect to rely on anyone but your own experience during a crisis or emergency, they're not a bad way of doing things.
So chill, and set your expectations quite low. You could be pleasantly surprised.
PS
Sauna / Steam rooms / jacuzzis - funny old thing. I found the "after ski" use of 2 out of three of the above the most amazing and perfect way to warm down. Miss it, and I ache like hell the next day. But it always surprises me that there are almost never any brits in the facility.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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don't use TO myself as for us they don't add anything. Can get exactly what I want cheaper via DIY.
BUT this takes some time and effort. For some just paying for a package is going to be attractive.
For several years we went with a TO. The thing which i disliked was the catering. Not that it was bad, just was too rigid for me. Somenights I didn't want a huge meal just a sarnie
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Wayne wrote: |
paulio,
You may be interested in this.
Last Half Term I asked one of the hotels to count the number of times that our clients used the hotel sauna. Not 1 (nil, zilch, nowt) in a whole week.
But when asked why they choose that particular hotel the sauna was high on the list. Go figure, as I can't work it out. |
FWIW our chalet (or whatever you call it) at Center Parcs a couple of weeks ago had its own private, generous-size sauna. None of us used it. Mind you, the chalet was not selected on the basis that it had one.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JimW - you nailed it
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I always use a TO as it really does not work out cheaper for me to do DIY. Can't really list any negative experiences although I would agree with some of the comments about transfers, but since there is really no viable alternative, it's certainly not something I'd ever get hung up about.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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achilles, the older ones are 'villas', the new refurb units are 'lodges'. CP is one of our clients at work.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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TO's don't offer many single rooms, and those they do offer usually have a hefty supplement.
The big advantage of DIY is more choice of flights, airports and transfers (in Switzerland I prefer using Zurich airport to Geneva and using the train to get to the resort).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| DebbiDoesSnow wrote: |
| Why focus on negatives when some do a really good job ? |
Companies that strive to eliminate all their major and minor weaknesses are typically more profitable than those who just stick their heads in the sand.
Wayne is bang-on with his approach.
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| Wayne wrote: |
paulio,
You may be interested in this.
Last Half Term I asked one of the hotels to count the number of times that our clients used the hotel sauna. Not 1 (nil, zilch, nowt) in a whole week.
But when asked why they choose that particular hotel the sauna was high on the list. Go figure, as I can't work it out. |
Because most people, in public, want to appear sophisticated. So they pretend they like saunas.
In private, they know staring at fat, old people in a sweatbox is not fun.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My top 2 gripes: it's really hard to book for a family of five through a TO. For some reason TO's often don't offer larger apartments, even if they're available in resort, and few TOs will guarantee adjacent hotel rooms even though most hotels offer a guarantee if you book direct. I once asked a large TO that specialises in NA skiing which of their holidays would suit a family of five... after 3 hours I was called back and told they had only one holiday in the brochure where they could guarantee that we'd all be together 
The other gripe is extortionate holiday prices. If you DIY a holiday to North America, the price hardly changes for February half term. Book through a TO, and the price goes up by £300 or more per person.
That's why I hardly ever use a TO. They just don't seem to cater to my needs.
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Check-in queues at airports.
Overcrowding in airports such as Geneva, Lyon and Chambery, specially when homeward flights are delayed.
In the accommodation:
Lack of coat hangers.
Insufficient coat hooks in the room to hang up jacket, salopettes, fleece, other jacket. And this is only my kit, need more hooks for my partners kit!
No hooks that are high enough to hang up a one-piece ski suit, or even sallopettes. (One solution, take my own cup-hooks and screw them into some suitable piece of wall or timber!)
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FAQ
Decent instructions on how to use that microwave/oven thingy in S/C ... never yet got one to do what its supposed to
