 Poster: A snowHead
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For many, Snowboard boots are a major issue. The product doesn't lend itself to fitting very well. If we take a look at the principal design we have a soft shell, liner and footbed. If we take a look at Snowboarders, we too have many issues that may inhibit correct fitting. I would like to state i ski with Snowboarders as often if not more than skiers and couldn't careless how we get around the mountain even if occasonally i like to poke fun at the Snowboarder just for giggles. I was lucky enough to work with someone for 4 years that was not only one of the best Snowboarders in France, but also one of the best bootfitters and has designed SB boots. To watch him deconstruct a SB boot and basically turn it into a ski boot whilst remaing soft was art.
So back to the product.
Snowboard boots are for the main part, soft. This enables 360° of motion to the ankle and enables us to engage heel edge, toe edge and to weight the nose and the tail of the board but as a result gives us less direct response that may otherwise cause difficulties for all but the very best. Given this fact there is very little to hold the shell against the foot with the amount of forces put through them. Freestyle boots are alot softer in this area (the ankle) and are as such to enable a better landing without forcing the board in whichever direction you land(like skateshoes). Freeride boots are alot stiffer and enable faster riding and more direct control, however less flexibility around the ankle to ensure better energy transmission. There are of course many boots that crossover that maybe better than the other for either purpose, why? Marketing and Product Costs. Sometimes stiffer materials are cheaper and get used in Freestyle boots to achieve price points (this is what you should buy.)
Ignoring the binding system is important at this stage, don't buy a poor fitting boot just because it fits your binding system! My advice is always use a strap system, such a K2 Cinch, the correctly fitted boot will mean this kind of binding is all you need.
Snowboard boots are on the whole, poorly made and cheap to manufacturer, many/most costing less than a pair of Nike Running shoes to make. I point you towards the 'Well Known Brands", Vans, Burton, Northwave and all the rest, too many to mention. There will be 'Diamonds' amongst them but if we take these brands 'Globaly' you are being ripped off, despite them serving you well there are much better that can move your boarding onto much higher levels.
Apart from one or two standard problems (heel lift, burning calfs) SB boots can only be comfortable, after all they are soft. That said, like ski boots, buying them too big can cause lots of problems. The soft structure combined with the fact most of them are huge in volume (aren't they comfortable in the shop.) mean you'll often spend all day playing with the binding to get purchase on your foot and moreover, over tightening the binding to compress the foot causing many problems difficult to resolve. Add to this the frequency you have to undo/do up your binding, twice every lift and the chances of this being a problem are multiplied.
So, up to here we know that the Soft Shell on the whole is poor, so how do we avoid buying a duff one?
Ok, there is a standard test we apply to all footwear except ski boots. Firstly we need to remove the liner and leave the shell as empty as we can. Ask the shop assistant to do this for you, it prevents upsetting the store and will also enable you to see whether the sales person has any idea how the product works.
So take the shell, i lace it up, not over tight but enough to keep the shell in place, same with 'BOA' tighten it to middle, don't compress it. Now hold the boot around the heel, hold it like a beer glass and squeeze, squeeze hard, this is the bit that will pressure the heel and prevent heel lift so it need to be stiff. This part will be really soft on top end freestyle boots, so don't buy freestyle boots. After a few days this part will soften and give eventually collapsing offering no support or heel hold. Next take hold off the cuff, imagine you are looking into the neck of the shell, now in a closed fist grab the highest part of the boot with one hand, the other hand holding the boot's sole and the boot upright, now holding the cuff try and push/pull it sideways and see how far it bends, this is a test to see how much precision you will have when weighting the tip or tail of your board or better balancing your upper body on reception of landings. Lastly pinch your fist again over the toe box of the boot(as if to give the toebox a cowbite.) now squeeze hard, can you compress it? If you can the boot is poorly made as the toebox is a vital part of correct boot manufacture, if there is a soft toe box the boot has been made cheaply and should be avoided.
Next liners, this is simple, thermoflex, intuition liners that are moulded in an oven are good. The rest IMO are a bag 'o' shite, i love the 'BOA' system but it does break, don't forget we see lots of them and break lots of them!!! Getting liners fitted in SB shops is near on impossible in my experience. Both SB shops in Sham send us their clients despite being great techs, they just can't be bothered, however give them a MTB in the summer and that's a different story, hense we fit all boots sold by them for free. Those rubbery 'Burton' things are the absolute pits, whether you have been happy with them or not, they are CRAP.
All liners should be heat moulded, i don't care if 'Jonny B' the Saturday boy reckons it will happen on it's own, getting it done properly will compress the liner and harden it up, thus lasting longer and fitting better. It will also mean you can fit the boot smaller, reducing volume and heel lift and enhancing performance.
Footbeds, well go to the best ski shop you can and get the best bootfitter you can to do this. I don't know any SB shop out there that has the workshop or equipment to do this properly. If you are one, you are reading this, please get in contact via PM, i'd love to hear from you.
What size? Well again this is dependant on what happens to your feet standing up and sitting down. But again we need the liner out of the shell and bare foot in it. Slide your foot to the toe end, lift the toe a little to move up the ramped part of the boot and touch the end. Don't worry if you touch in width, now look down behind the heel of your foot, 12mm is ideal, no more and occasionally less. Correct moulding of the liner with a good foot bed will give you more than enough space for your toes.
I hope so far you follow. If you do and you have and still have problems then provided that shell is good, a Bootfitter can stretch the boot to give you length.
They can add padding to the liner to get better purchase on the foot. The tough shell will in turn apply pressure to the liner and onto the foot, a too soft shell will just be forced out aways and the net result is little or no improvement.
Improve comfort and any major Biomechanical issues with footbeds or correct measurement of your stance.
Spend a good amount of time and money on your boots, i understand for many SB'rs that it might just be a one off holiday, a chance to go and do what you do on your skateboard or surfboard but on snow, however if you want to really take to the mountains, Feet are the Foundation, despite the fact you're wearing awful globe skateshoes, 2 sizes too big and keep trippin' over the laces.
I hope that's covered it, Chelsea are just about to kick off, see ya.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oh yeah, good socks are a must! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Excellent. Thank you. 
In every shop I have been to when trying to buy boots the staff were useless and didn't have a clue.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Interesting post, what socks do you recommend. Been on snowboard specific bridgedales for 7 years (erm, the same 3 pairs... although I do wash them)
I'll be in sham for a week at the end of the month so will probably pop into the shop.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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prog99, make sure its on day 1 the sock wearing, don't want to kill a zookeeper
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, thanks for that I agree about Burton btw.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, cheers 
this should be a sticky ???? Mod ????? do we have a Mod here????
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, excellent, very informative, thank you very much. I've never been able to find any theory behind snowboard bootfitting before. What boot manufacturers do you recommend? Saloman? I spend no time in the park, don't do tricks, just ride piste and off piste pretty fast and weigh in at 115 Kgs if that info makes a difference.
I too am firmly in the don't buy Burton camp - too expensive and too fragile - at least my first boots and bindings were.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Very interesting to read having just bought a new pair of 32s. Already got it on the list to have them heat molded (well actually they have been in the car boot for the past 3 weeks with the intention to take them into SnowSun in Ipswich).
I am interested in the socks point though - would you and others recommed getting techie ones rather than bog standard tube socks that i have always skiied and boarded in?
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croskemj, Lidl ones - techie boardy types for a couple of quid a pop
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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croskemj, never tube socks, they fall down and are uncomfortable.
The best socks I have are like thin walking socks I got from a Pyrenees resort. Personally I find 'snowboard' socks too thick. But I know loads of people that just wear their normal day socks & never complain !!!
Personal preference really.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Cloven hoofs where not designed to go into footwear 
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i bought two different types of salomon socks from tk max - both about a fiver or so a pair and they're really good.
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You know it makes sense.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, now thats intresting!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ooh, just realised that i hadn't said thanks SMALLZOOKEEPER, that really was an interesting read 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Excellent post SMALLZOOKEEPER,
Explaining how a snowboard boot "should" fit can be very awkward but you've managed it very well. That's enough ass-kissing, lets see when I can get out to cham to get my next pair of boots fitted!! 
joe
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I would just like to pick you up on a few points ....... in person in Cham with my boots under my arm
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rayscoops, Best place for SB boots, under your arms.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Smallzookeeper - I once saved a skier from drowning in Le Lac with my snowboard boots ........... I took my foot off his head
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rayscoops,
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rayscoops, Why was it getting wet? 
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SZK Can you give us a list of your preferred boots in the budget, medium and premium price ranges?
7 of us are going to Andorra and may well purchase, rather than rent.
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bar shaker, No. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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top post - next season i want new boots - will use this as a guide
(hangs head in shame - my current (first) pair of boots are burtons and they are too sloppy now)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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<>
Which make of boot/model did he design?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Cheers - Sticky ?
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I bought the Salomon Malmutte's in the end. the guy in the shop thought the 9's would be right for me but using your measuring system I had about an inch and a quarter at the back of the boot, they were very comfortable though! In the end I took the 8's as they were a better length but tighter on the sides. My heel doesn't lift at all! The problem on the width is that in the 9's it's fine but in the 8's it's a bit tight. The bloke in the shop said they would break in and that they couldn' be stretched sideways. Is this correct as you say that they can. They do pinch but I'm afraid that if I get the 9's they'll end up slack after a week or two.
Any help greatly appreciated.
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You know it makes sense.
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This thread is a great idea. I suffered from badly fitting boots for ages - tried everything to make the damn things comfortable when riding. The guy who sold them to me in Canada was more bothered that they looked good in my set-up and being naive at the time, so was I. When I bought boots again, I tried on every boot in the shop and walked around in each pair for 15 mins (sorry to the patient guys in Oxygene in Meribel!). While some seemed to fit ok, once I'd finished my little walking tour, I'd changed my mind as they'd started pinching or slipping. I'm pleased to say the boots I finally bought have been fantastic and I'm glad I insisted on being a difficult, if not apologetic, customer. Everyone should try it!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks man, that's a really helpful post
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Poster: A snowHead
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whichsnowboard, you really think so ? or should we visit your site to agree with you
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DebbiDoesSnow...or shall I call you hawk eye?
The plug was so subtle I nearly missed it...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Kruisler, had your eyes tested recently ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'll be in Andorra by tomorrow night for three days boarding so I'll let you know if the boots work!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just got back. The boots were fantastic. An initial bit of pain in the outside of my lead foot but that soon went (down to using the foot in a different way, I was told). No pain at all and more inportantly zero heel lift, thanks SZK for the advice on the 8' over 9's!
Within 20 mins I was going off-piste and loving it.
I did two days on the board then the last day on ski's and I do fear that I'm swithching to the dark side! The board was a lot more fun off piste. I couldn't hire any big mountain skis so I still don't know how uch better they are but I will definitely be boarding for at least half of every trip from now on.
Out of the box comfort! Never have thought it was possible with my plates of meat!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Jumping Jack Flash, sounds great, the beauty of an 'all mountain' board which is probably/possibly a typical hire board is that it is quite versatile and you can use it on and off piste, in comparison skis seem to be getting so specialised that you almost need a different set of skis if it snows over night ! glad you enjoyed yourself
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, thanks for posting that, most informative. Whilst you mention the makes/brands to avoid i couldnt see any recomendations, i'm new to snowboarding and have burton boots at the moment, mainly because i learnt in the summer and stock in my size was quite restrictive. Reading your article above i might want to invest in some new ones, i have very small (uk size 2.5) and narrow feet, what makes/brands could you recommend i look out for?
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I wouldn't say any brand were particulary worse or better. there is an evolution all the time, year to year brands improve or fail.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snobunni: The best boots in the world are the ones that fit YOU best. Forget brands, try lots of pairs on and see what fits. If you really know what you want, then worry about stiff vs soft, etc. otherwise just get the ones that fit best.
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snobunni, i also wear size 2.5 in normal shoes, but get away with up to size 4 in trainers/boots. i also have narrowish feet. i wear a pair of salomon f20w's from 07/08 season in size uk5.5 the liners aren't heat mouldable or removable but are "self-moulding". i added in customised-to-my-feet footbeds. i wear smartwool snowboarding socks but my boots still fit really well when i wear other socks. it seems that after i've worn them for about two weeks worth of riding, they now fit my feet perfectly. and that's after fitting on about 5 pairs of boots in the shop. you need to spend a lot of time in each pair to ensure there are no pressure points, etc.
like SMALLZOOKEEPER, says, you can't recommend a specific brand cos each person has very individualised (is that a word?) feet.
hope the info helps.
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FAQ
