 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey All,
My boyfriend and I are looking to make a trip during January 2010. It would probably be the first two weeks in January, as school starts back up the third week. Not sure how long of a trip we're looking for- at least a week and probably no longer than 2.
We live in Colorado and spend a lot of time at Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge and Keystone... I would say he can ski anything in any of those resorts, but I'm a bit more reserved and won't go off of cliffs  Skiing in the trees is loads of fun and we both love powder. He snowboards, I ski.
Neither of us have been to Europe, ever. Because of that we'll want to do some non-skiing touristy type things. We've also never skiied outside of the US... so really looking forward to trying some new places.
We're college students, so we are on a bit of a budget. I have enough frequent flier miles to cover the airfare so that is not a concern. Not looking for fancy, expensive resorts but good skiing is a must. Powder is even better.
So, I guess for my questions... Where are good places to ski and stay in Europe? What would be a good city to fly in to? Is it possible to take buses/trains/whatever to different ski areas in potential different countries, or would we be better off renting a car? (Might be difficult, I'm 21 and he's 23)
How much does rental gear cost? Would it make sense to bring our own boots but leave the skis/board at home?
Any and all advice is welcome but helpful advice is best. 
Thanks!
Lauren
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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laurenl, welcome to 
Lots of questions and you will get lots of answers to help on here. Probably would be good to have an idea of what country you like the sound of (France, Austria, Switzerland and Italy are the main ones but there are other choices). This will also depend on what non skiing touristy things you have in mind?
Generally apart from the first week of January, it is a good month to go as (in France anyway) the February hols don't start until end of first week in Feb.
Travelling between resorts could be expensive and car hire is probably best especially if you bring your own gear. If you want an idea of rental prices have a look at
http://www.snowrental.net/
though of course there are other rental outlets but this will give you an idea.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There is generally less snowfall in the alps than the rockies so you can't bank on being able to ride powder any particular week of the season. I'm sure you've heard of chamonix before and it could be a good place to go for skiing and touristy things, especially if the valley blanc is open, not sure if it normally has enough snow to open by early january
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Minimum age for car rental is 21 I think, so at the least your boyfriend should be OK to get a car. I usually find that the cheapest option for car rental is to use Holiday Autos following this link for a good discount code.
Geneva would be one of the options for your destination airport (direct flights from JFK and Washington, or via London, Paris or Frankfurt for other departure points) and give you lots of resort options for France and Western Switzerland.
You might want to consider a central base which would allow you to sample two or more resorts. Somewhere like Bourg St Maurice in France is a valley town with easy access to Les Arcs by a 7 minute mountain railway ride, 45 minutes drive to Val d'Isere & Tignes and slightly longer for the Trois Vallees all of which offer huge piste networks and off-piste terrain, significantly larger than anything you will have skied in the US. For a contrast you would also be about 20 minutes drive from St Foy which is a small resort but with lots of off-piste opportunities (although you should probably budget for the cost of a guide to make the most of the skiing there).
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 20-07-09 11:40; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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so long as you aren't here for New Year's week, you probably don't need to book accommodation now. i'd be inclined to get flights into Zurich and then follow the snow. the Swiss public transport system is very efficient so you wouldn't need a car to travel around there, and it links reasonably well with Austria. so, within a couple of hours or so you have places like St Anton, Andermatt and Engelberg, all of which have v good snow records for the alps and lots of interesting terrain
slightly further afield, but completely doable you have places like Zermatt and Verbier and you could get to Chamonix but that would probably be a fairly full day of travelling
Early Jan is a bit early in the season for very glaciated places like Cham unless it is a bumper snow year
most places have reasonably priced accommodation - go through the tourist office
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Thanks everyone!
Off-piste.. I had to look that up. We do a lot of off-piste skiing here and generally stay off groomed runs. Are guides necessary? How English-friendly are Switzerland, France and/or Italy? I speak Spanish decently but that's not much of a help.
Non-skiing touristy things would probably be sight-seeing, a bit of shopping, eating good food, enjoying some bars...
We don't mind traveling.. We both are used to driving through mountains and I'm familar with driving on the wrong side of the street... Plus-- in the US nothing is close and I'm used to driving 16 hours in a day to go home and visit the family. Even though we live in the foothills here it takes ~3-4 hours with traffic to get to summit county.
I definitely want to spend some time in Switzerland but it would be awesome to see as much of the area as we could. Would it be viable to spend 3 there, 3 in France and 3 in Italy and leave a day of travel or 2 for each? Maybe 6 days of skiing total? I'm thinking a loop of travel, in which case driving would be our best bet. How are the roads? Is 4WD necessary? Do passes get closed due to snowfall?
Figuring out how much all of this will cost will give me the best idea of how long we can spend there. And sorry for the bombardment of questions.. I really have just started looking into the possibility of a vacation.
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laurenl, You won't have to drive "on the wrong side of the street", since all of continental Europe drives on the right, the same as you do
It certainly would be possible to do France, Italy, Switzerland in a loop - probably best to fly to Geneva for that), although only the parts of each fairly close to the borders (with one day of travel between each). Hiring a car would make much more sense than trying to use public transport for this.
If you stick to the main resorts, you won't have much difficulty with English, but you will find it less easy to find English speakers in the smaller places, particularly in France and Italy.
You have to be careful when comparing off-piste to what you know. As a general rule, there is no such thing as "out of bounds" in Europe, but at the same time, hardly any off-piste terrain is avalanche controlled (except where this is needed to protect groomed runs or inhabited areas below it) or patrolled. So yes, guides are generally pretty necessary unless you know the area pretty well. You also have to remember that snow depths in Europe are usually much less than you are likely to be used to, and January is fairly early season, so there is no guarantee that there will be any useable off-piste when you are over here.
As for the choice between renting gear or bringing your own, I would say bring your own boots definitely, and whether to bring your own skis/board will depend a lot on how you plan out the trip. If you are moving from one resort to another each day, then it will be a lot of hassle sorting out rentals each day, but if you are spending 3-4 days in each place, it will not have as much impact. Costs of rental gear vary quite widely between resorts. You could look at the Intersport or sport2000 websites for an idea of what it will cost in each of the places you are interested in.
Lift passes will probably be cheaper than US ones, other costs will probably be more in mega resorts (particularly in France), less in some of the smaller resorts (particularly in Italy).
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| Quote: |
Off-piste.. I had to look that up. We do a lot of off-piste skiing here and generally stay off groomed runs. Are guides necessary?
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The best way of thinking about most European skiing areas is of a set of pistes threading their way through the backcountry. If you are comfortable skiing b/c in the US then there is no reason why you would not be similarly comfortable in Europe (unless you are proposing to ski on glaciers). Otherwise I would consider getting a guide or an instructor.
Otherwise I would agree with Arno's advice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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lol, shows what I know... Who drives on the left then? Silly British..
Where would be a good place to go in Italy?
I'm messing around on Google Maps-- We could fly in to Milan and go to Livigno (or someplace else in Italy), then make our way to Verbier by going through Zurich (and definitely stopping for a bit of tourism there) and after skiing in Verbier, heading to Chamonix, and then going back to Milan. We could also fly in to Zurich. Round trip 983 km.
I don't think we would ski on glaciers, or do anything too dangerous. Are dangers labeled?
If the Alps don't get a ton of snow, are avalanches common?
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| laurenl wrote: |
I don't think we would ski on glaciers, or do anything too dangerous. Are dangers labeled?
If the Alps don't get a ton of snow, are avalanches common? |
Sounds like a nice loop - Zurich isn't the greatest city for the tourist thing but Lucerne is quite pleasant for a half day & you can do a day down to Annecy or geneva easily enough from Chamonix.
Off piste areas are generally roped off so labelled to a degree but then don't expect crevasses or cliffs to be marked once under the rope. Avalanche risk varies by snowfall, temperature, aspect etc as it in the US - there is larger temperature variation than in Colorado I believe in Jan so risk can vary due to warming cycles etc. & of course local history re weak layers. Usually pretty clear when you are on a glacier.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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laurenl, Stuben (same pass as St Anton) is powder central. Much better snow record than St Anton - just seems to catch all the snow. Check out this vid by Candide Thovex http://www.candidekamera.com/cinemaroom/cinemaroom.html some filmed around Stuben and some around Montgenevre (I think). Get train from Zurich to Langen am Arlberg - c. 2.5 hours then 5 min taxi. http://www.stuben.com/index.php?id=3&L=1 for more info on Stuben. Zurs is only 5 mins away and gets 2nd/3rd best snow record in Alps but Stuben will get at least the same but as such a small resort probably not included in figures.
Plus you then get the apres ski of St Anton only 30-40 mins of skiing/uplift away or 10 min taxi away - the Mooserwirt is a must www.mooserwirt.at
Took my brother in law and his family to Stuben with us this year and they loved it. They usually go to Colorado as my sister in law's sister has lived in Golden for 10 years or so, so tend to spend a few weeks with them at Christmas.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you want to tick off all 3 countries you might be better flying into geneva and visiting (say) Chamonix, Verbier and the Monte Rosa region (ie Gressoney/Alagna.) Zermatt would be worth a look - it has a bit of history about it, stunning scenery and you can ski over into Italy conditions permitting.
This is just concentrating on big name resorts (although Monte Rosa is quite overlooked) - there are any number of cool smaller places which you can visit with a car.
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How many times are you going to be able to visit Europe again ? At the risk of being banned from this forum I'd suggest Venice (cold, but about the only time of year you can explore at your own pace not that of the people two inches behind and in front of you), Rome and Florence, with maybe a couple of days skiing in Cortina for the unique scenery.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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laurenl, Although I haven't been my perception of Livigno is not one that I'd recommend.
Flying into Milan gives you the Aoste valley, easy-ish access to much of the Haute Savoie and Savoie (France) and Switzerland. Oddly enough, It's quite a good idea. (Normally I'd default to Geneva).
If I was planning a tour and not spending too much time touring;
In no particular order...
Chamonix
Zermatt/Cervinia
Verbier/4 Vallees
MonteRosa
Although I love the Portes du Soleil I am afraid it and the Grand Massif get B-listed on this one - but both well worth a visit.
Maybe a little heli ski in Val Grisenche?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I would get a 2-3 country rail pass and just stop off at resorts with efficient rail connections instead.
By the time you figure in gas and parking, the rental fee will feel like nothing!
Switzerland had excellent rail service, probably 80-90% of resorts are reachable by rail without much hassle. Austria is not too far behind, as least as far as the bigger, well known resorts goes. Even in France, you can still get to quite a few resorts by train, though the schedule can be hit or miss. I don't know if the Italians know what train is though.
Language: I had no trouble in Switzerland, Austria nor France. I've been told by others Spanish comes in handy enough in Italy. And I've witness a conversation between a Spanish speaker and an Italian speaker to believe it works.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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laurenl, I would concur with under a new name, as a practical way to visit 3 countries and ski in some of the most spectacular parts of the alps. I would deffo not bother with the tourist thing in Zurich! If you were coming in March I'd suggest La Grave, but January is too early to be sure of much over there. Enjoy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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laurenl, I agree with under a new name, Livigno is not a place to visit on a fast moving European tour . . . it's not quite at the ass-end of nowhere, but pretty darn close. I love the place but it's somewhere to go for a holiday that happens to be a ski resort, somewhere to relax over postprandial lunch digestif and not worry about heading back up the hill . . . somewhere to chill with snow. Also it's not somewhere to ski out of bounds without a guide as the local farmers do not take down their wire fences in the winter . . . not something you want to hit at speed 
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laurenl
There are just too many options !! Hiring a car will make a road trip a lot easier for you.
I don't think you'll need to drive 900km to have a fantastic tour. How about a 3 countries trip where you are never more than (about) 200km (2.5-3 hours) from Geneva airport?
Fly to Geneva (Switzerland) then drive along the top of Lake Geneva. If you want to keep the cost down, stay in valley towns like Sion or Martigny, both are within (approx) 90 mins of the airport. Good value hotels at http://www.accorhotels.com/gb/home/index.shtml. Martigny has a Roman amphithetre which is well worth a look.
Visit:
- Portes du Soleil ski area (access via Torgon, Les Crosets or Morgins). World's biggest ski area - covering France and Switzerland - 650km of pistes and 230 lifts.
- Zermatt. As have already said, it's amazing. Great skiing and worth going for the Matterhorn views alone. The town has some lovely rustic bits too, with snow covered chalets and cowsheds. You can ski your 3rd country of the trip as it's linked by piste to Cervinia in Italy. We've stayed here - this is fairly budget by Zermatt standards - http://www.matterhornblick.ch/index-e.php. It means 'Matterhorn View', is in a great spot and is highly recommended. The standard is exceptional for a bed and breakfast.
- Chamonix. The pass from Switzerland is usually kept open but can be closed by heavy snowfall. Fantastic off piste potential (especially the views and experience of the 15 miles Vallee Blanche, if it's open - the vertical drop is about 7000 ft.) & amazing scenery. Nice town too with lots of accommodation options. Or cheap hotel at Sallanches - a pleasant valley town 30 mins from Chamonix) via Accor Hotels website link above. Sallanches is also very handy for Combloux (15 mins drive). Totally unheard of resort but a great ski area that is linked to the more well known Megeve. Combloux is a really nice resort too - would be nice to stay there.
A quirk of the above itinerary is that you would encounter 3 languages - French (obviously), Italian (obviously) and German in Zermatt - so that might be nice for you!
You could add Saas Fee (Switzerland to the above) - it's an absolutely gorgeous resort in the next valley to Zermatt; or Verbier - easy access from Martigny.
Or add Courmayeur (Italy) after Chamonix - it's just the other side of the Mont Blanc tunnel from Chamonix.
AAAAGH! Choices!! You will be amazed to find just how many skiing areas you will have to choose from once you get over to the Alps - you will be totally spoiled for choice. In January you can just turn up and find accommodation - usually no need to book ahead.
There's a fantastic UK-published ski guide called Where to Ski and Snowboard, which has 'warts and all' reviews of just about everywhere in the world (or so it seems). Higly recommended if you can get hold of a copy. Here's their website:
http://www.wtss.co.uk/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=100
Good luck and let us know what you decide.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi, welcome to snowheads.
You've got a one to two week vacation, and are on a budget.
Check this out, I would recommend Innsbruck in Austria. The winter Olympics have been held twice in Innsbruck. The airport is a ten-minute taxi ride from the city centre. Also because its a city, a university city at that, food, drink, night life and accommodation is fairly cheap, in fact it's possible to stay in the old Olympic competitors' accommodation and everybody speaks English.
What about the skiing, you ask. There are free ski buses from the city to all the surrounding ski resorts, which take between 30 minutes and an hour, so no expensive hire car required. You can even get the tram and cablecar to Nordpark from the city centre.
A good ski hire shop is DIEBORSE.AT (wwwdieborse.at, shop@dieborse.at). They hire out everything from on piste to ski touring gear. You could certainly spend a week here and head off to Switzerland by train if you have another week.
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Thanks everyone! I will have to do a lot of research to look at all this stuff...
I basically was using Livigno as a google entry. We don't have to stop in Zurich but when I entered Livigno to Verbier the route went directly through the city.
Zermatt did look pretty awesome, and if we can get to Italy from there.. sweet.
Hopefully I'll be able to go back to Europe many times; I love to travel.
Manual is no problem at all. My boyfriend is quite profficient with all sorts of cars (is building a 60s bug at the moment) and he's promised he will teach me how to drive a manual.
Free ski buses sounds great. I guess gas is much more expensive there, so we'll have to see. Truffaut, wouldn't the canals be frozen in Venice? Though I suppose if it doesn't have much traffic it'd be sweet to go there.
Gotta run, I'm sure I will have more questions when I start to sit down and work on it..
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| laurenl wrote: |
Free ski buses sounds great. I guess gas is much more expensive there, so we'll have to see. Truffaut, wouldn't the canals be frozen in Venice? Though I suppose if it doesn't have much traffic it'd be sweet to go there. |
Not likely. Venice is on the coast, so a lot warmer than the mountains to start with, and then I'm sure the canals will b at least somehwat brackish, being open to the sea, so would need a lower temperature to freeze anyhow.
Apparently the average water temperature, even in January, is 10 degrees. http://www.zoover.co.uk/italy/veneto/venice/weather#tabs
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I would not recommend Livigno. Though it is a nice resort it is a little off the main roads and the skiing isn't that amazing (if compared with all the other options). And skiing in Italy includes the risk of having a very poor year snowwise (this year was gorgeous in Italy but it was extremely exceptional since major storms were rolling in from the Adriatic and the Mediterannean almost on a weekly basis starting in November. However, this is not something you can count on). An additional problem in Livigno is that off-piste skiing might forbidden by the local police (depending on the avalanche situation). The Italian police is quite effective in hunting down freeriders (I was almost arrested this March in the Adamello region on quite ridicolous claims).
There are tons of good recommendations in this thread already. If you are really into road-tripping I would suggest a general route which includes the Arlberg (it is most likely - compared to other regions - that you'll find enough powder snow there in January), then some interesting Swiss resorts, e.g. Davos, Engelberg, Andermatt. Then travel over to the Pennine mountains (if and only if enough snow visit Zermatt, it is really spectacular but often lacks snow), Verbier and then go over to Chamonix. If snow is coming from the south (Mediterranean storms) then you can easily change from Chamonix (tunnel through Mont Blanc) to Alagna. Try to get used to the general storm pattern concerning the European Alps:
West = Snow in Chamonix area, most parts of the northern Alps in Switzerland, sometimes Austria too (however western winds are sometimes associated with rising rain/snow levels)
North-Western-Storms: big dumps in Northern Switzerland, Arlberg and all the northern fringes of the Austrian Alps (depending on the path of the storm, Switzerland or Austria receives more).
The South (Aosta, Piemont, Lombardia, Trentino, Dolomites) receives usually only enough snow if the aforementioned Mediterannean or Adriatic storm patterns are in effect (they deliver huge but are quite rare and in some winter there is really a lack of snow in these resorts).
A very good ressource for following the snow is to be found in the avalanche warning services (SFL ... Switzerland www.slf.ch, Austria: www.lawine.at
You will be fine with English in all resorts (especially in the larger resorts). Chamonix is almost a british exclave.
Cheers
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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laurenl, I live in USA and ski a fair bit in Europe too. One thing to consider - many of the ski areas being mention are somewhat huge. If you visit for a day, you'll spend half the time lost, esp if weather iffy, and rest of time doing a 'drive-by tour' (using a Rush Limbaugh-ism - sorry!). Of the two suggestions above, I really resonate with ideas like:
-fly to somewhere central, hire a car, and follow the snow. let the weather dictate. I suspect you are going to be shocked by car rental and gas prices tho. They may blow your budget.
-base in Bourg St Maurice and just hit the ski hills around there. There's some epic terrain and variety beyond belief.
-the advise about Stuben/Arlberg is spot on, it is European powder central. Must admit Lech is my fave but again you may struggle there on a budget. teh skiing in the whole Arlberg area is incredible.
The 'let's hire a car and see nothing of a 100 places in a week' is a classic American tourist 'mistake'. If you're planning to go many times, you don't have to see everywhere on teh first visit.
my blog (in signbelow) has plenty of entries and lots of pics/vids on trips in last two years to the Arlberg and several ski areas in that vicinity. I go there simply because the snow/terrain combo is so good.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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laurenl, understood. I went to college for 8 years of poverty, but 20 years later somewhat amazingly find I can still see the world and work at the same time
So here's an analogy skiing-wise. Say you had 2 weeks and flew in Denver. And wanted to ski at Winter Park, Breck, Keystone, Vail, Beaver Creek, Aspen (all hills), Steamboat. And spend a day in Denver relaxing. What sort of impression do of the ski hills do you think you'd have? Given you'd be driving most evenings or early mornings, the weather might be unpredictable, etc ...
Now imagine going to the Trois Vallee or the Arlberg, areas that are linked and have as much terrain variety as most of the above combined. And you spend a day or two there. Basically you'll see a few nice runs (on days you hit good weather), but miss out on most of the good bits, which lie between/off-piste, and the culture, which is a big part of the fun in Europe.
re: off-piste, if you're used to skiing advanced terrain in Colorado, then don't be afraid to head off the groomed in Europe. But be sensible. If its dumped, there's so much terrain you can pretty easily find safe deep pow, often under lifts and in simple traverses between the runs. and you'll find many of the locals skiing it too, but there's not much competition as most of the punters stay on groomed. Like skiing trees in North America, follow locals, avoid obviously steep areas, etc, and enjoy. Heading into some of the truly epic terrain undoubtedly requires guides and avi gear.
All depends what you want, of course ....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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laurenl, I'd also just say that in Europe YOU have responsibility for your own safety. So if you're going off-piste check out the level of avalanche warnings and ensure you are fully prepared/kitted out. It's a wild alpine environment, not a safe ski hill.
I'm sure you'll have a great time wherever you go - be sure to tell us all about it! And gortonator's blog is well worth reading
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You know it makes sense.
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laurenl, I would highly recommend taking gortonator's advice. We Americans have a tendancy to be overly ambitious when going to Europe, wanting to see 10 cities in 12 days and such. In your attempt to see as much as possible, you risk not experiencing anything (other than motorways). You also risk blowing your budget.
I think the first step is to stop thinking of the names mentioned here as single resorts, because that disguises just how huge they are. Chamonix is in fact comprised of at least five distinct sectors (with Cornemeyer in Italy also on the other side of the Mount Blanc tunnel and included in your lift ticket). You would not ski more than one of these sectors in a day, so only giving yourself a couple days there really misses the point. It would also mean being so rushed that you would miss out on seeing much of the town of Chamonix itself (which would be a shame). I'm using Chamonix as an example, but the same is true of any number of other resorts.
My advice would be to plan to stay at least one week, preferably 10 days, in a place like Chamonix (or Verbier or Alberg or any number of other places). Really explore that region, and then tack on a day or two of sightseeing in Geneva or whereever at the beginning and/or end. This can also save you from having to rent a car, and that is money you can put toward a guide or a great dinner or paragliding or whatever else you might want to do.
Just my $0.02.
Regarding costs, in my experience you will find that lift tickets are far cheaper than the US and lodging is significantly cheaper for similarly classed accommidation (although this is not true in all European resorts). On the other hand, food and drink is much more expensive in Europe, and renting a car plus fuel could feel extortinate. Luckily, it is the expenses that are higher in Europe that are also most easily controlled.
Good luck, and remember that whereever you end up going will be great.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ami in berlin wrote: |
Regarding costs, in my experience you will find that lift tickets are far cheaper than the US and lodging is significantly cheaper for similarly classed accommidation (although this is not true in all European resorts). On the other hand, food and drink is much more expensive in Europe, and renting a car plus fuel could feel extortinate. Luckily, it is the expenses that are higher in Europe that are also most easily controlled.
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Walk up day ticket prices at many "big" European resorts may look eye watering compared to a Vail epic season pass but as headline rates that isn't a bad assumption. I don't get the accomodation point though - European rooms are tiny comapred to their North American equivalent and often in resorts expect bookings for the week (less so in Chamonix & other valley towns)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Comparing multi-day lift tickets (that is to say, like for like, and the sort of ticket appropriate for laurenl), I've found prices in Europe to be far lower, even approaching half, than those in the US.
As for accom, I've never had a problem with the one week booking requirement, and I have always gotten budget accom at a price/quality level not possible in the US. I stayed over New Years in a very large, clean double room with a large balcony in Les Houches (next village from Chamonix, right on the free bus line) for €55 per night. I booked my father into a five star hotel in Bad Gastein for under €100 per night, while my girlfriend and I were in a studio apartment 2 minutes from the lift for €500 for 9 nights. I've booked a large two room apartment in Switzerland just down the hill from Laax for two weeks next Christmas and New Years for €700. That's two weeks. The Hotel Bellevue in Engelberg has double rooms for, what, 70 CHF per night? You don't have to look around too hard to find cheap accomodation in Europe.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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laurenl, if it were me I'd recommend Chamonix because it's just so spectacular and Zermatt because the Matterhorn is so iconic (Verbier as an alternative).
As ami in berlin, says, trying to do Chmamonix in a couple of days would miss the whole point and mean that you'll potentially miss out on treats like the Vallee Blanche, which you really need good weather for.
A couple of suggestions for saving costs:
- stay in hostels - there's one in Chamonix (whose name I can't remember, but someone will pitch in) and there's also a good hostel in Zermatt
- have a car for Chamonix (the bus service can be a bit of a pain), but use the train to get to somewhere in Switzerland. So, if it were me, I'd hire a car for 5 days skiing in Chamonix; return the car to Geneva airport; maybe do a sightseeing in Geneva and pick up the train at the airport for Zermatt. Zermatt is a car free resort, so having one is a complete pain anyway as you'll end up paying for parking.
Whether you need a guide off-piste very much depends on your level of mountain craft. You certainly don't want to consider going on a glacier without one.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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cathy, thx ...  ... that makes 2 readers!
starting to ponder next years little jaunt to somewhere north-west Austria-ish. And still have to put all my Serfaus footage into a video. Bloody work - gets in way of so many things ....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I agree with FlyingStantoni(especially about the car), and others.... I'd split that time between Chamonix (including a day for the VB and one in Courmayeur) and Zermatt - I think these two between them offer you two very different and completely spectacular experiences which are unlike anything in the US. You've got Verbier or the PDS as a backup in case of conditions being iffy. You'll have no trouble getting accomodation in January so you can be flexible about that
Le Vagabond is the best known hostel in Chamonix but there are other cheap places - you can get an apartment for a week in the Grand Roc pretty cheaply too, right by the lifts in Argentiere.
I think an iPhone or laptop would be invaluable for checking conditions etc. There's plenty of free wifi around.
You might want to do the Pas de Chevre in Chamonix too (visible here on the left, in the sun) if it's in condition (you need a guide for it)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
you can pretty easily find safe deep pow, often under lifts and in simple traverses between the runs.
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From a chairlift in Verbier we once saw what we thought was an avalanche dogs drill among some deep powder between 2 pistes. Turns out it was for real - and someone had been buried. We found out later that they died. Based on where it happened - about 30 metres from a piste - we couldn't believe it. But it served as a sobering lesson that off piste is off piste and that 30 metres from the piste is as dangerous as 3 kilometres.....
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Quote: |
you can pretty easily find safe deep pow, often under lifts and in simple traverses between the runs.
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From a chairlift in Verbier we once saw what we thought was an avalanche dogs drill among some deep powder between 2 pistes. Turns out it was for real - and someone had been buried. We found out later that they died. Based on where it happened - about 30 metres from a piste - we couldn't believe it. But it served as a sobering lesson that off piste is off piste and that 30 metres from the piste is as dangerous as 3 kilometres..... |
it happens. even happens on piste/trail sometimes. every time you venture off piste requires vigilance. Know what avi conditions are, if in any doubt avoid steep stuff and exploit local knowledge. But in big Euro ski hills the fact is that thousands of people go off/between piste every day without guides, and very very few experience avalanches.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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firebug, that's a photo! . . . yours?
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FAQ
), but the Matterhorn has to be the most photogenic mountain in the world 
,and it also has some of the best mountain restaurants in the Alps eg Chez Vrony. The skiing ain't bad either! 
, but it's a place every snowsports enthusiast should see at least once in their life IMO. I've stayed at the 
