 Poster: A snowHead
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have looked in the searches and have some options. We are a family of 6 wanting to ski from friday 18th December returning on 24 December (all intermiediate +) older children looking for off piste and not too outrageous nightlife. Chamonix last year suited but wanting something different possibly. We are thinking of booking flights to a suitable airport with maybe a view to book accommodation when we know where the snow is. We have enjoyed france but are happy to look at other destinations. Here is the list of questions - which airports offer access to which skiing areas? Which resorts are snow sure at this time of year with some blues and above and offering some off piste? Accommodation - preferably self catering within the resort/town. transfers - being 6 we have hire car economical and convenient - max 3 hour transfer.
Chamonix ticks all the boxes but we like to try something new and we have not been to Austria.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pembsflyer, Welcome to  . Good to see somebody else from paradise on here.
There'll be loads of advice on here in short time but to start:
For your week you'll need to go high. Therefore Geneva for Val d'Isere, Val Thoren etc is a good place to start.You can also get to Verbier in Switzerland which is a superb resort.
There are many more options. If you want my choice for your requirements- Les Arcs. Again from Geneva (or Lyon or Chambery).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi
1) Visit Skyscanner to find places you can fly to from your local airport - http://www.skyscanner.net/flights-from/cwl/cheap-flights-from-cardiff-airport.html or Bristol or other
2) J2ski - will show you for each destination airport what resorts are easy to travel too - http://www.j2ski.com/ski_resorts/Airports/
Obvious choices for France would be (a) Lyon/Geneva - which would give you a choice of Espace Killy, 3v, Paradiski. GVA is good for PDS (Morzine / Avoriaz / Les Gets etc)
(b) Grenoble which is better placed for the likes of L2A and ADH
3) WTSS will give you the basic factual information on each resort - http://www.wtss.co.uk/index.jsp
Most places will have self-catering places available, and as that's likely to be 2nd week of the season for most places, then I can't imagine it will be totally rammed. Snowsureness is never guaranteed but the higher resorts listed above would be pretty good bets. You refer to 'older children?' - is that 14 or so where a cheeky vin with the meal is appropriate or 18-19 where they'll want to go drinking/clubbing on their own in which case they'd love some of the livelier resorts in Austria (st. Anton, Ischgl, Mayrhofen etc)
To my mind your criteria is too wide to form an effective selection (what an IT geek!) - you could make an argument for literally most places in W. Europe, so If I was you I'd start looking at what places you can fly to easily and narrow from there.
Good luck whereever you end up
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pembsflyer, For the last two winters I've been to the Skiamade area in Austria and the snow has been good and the pistes were fairly empty (the Austrians don't seem to go out toplay before Christmas and not many people from the UK seem to go there).
Also it's easy to get there from Salzburg airport. For more information see:-
www.skiamade.at
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For the last two winters I've been to the Skiamade area in Austria and the snow has been good
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It has indeed been good for the last two years but it remains the case that that is a dodgy week for snow in lower areas - there have been some years with extremely poor snow cover at that time. It's a great week to go if the snow is good - quiet and not too expensive. There shouldn't be a problem with accommodation so you can probably afford to leave booking accommodation later, as you suggest. But if you want to book now, and be reasonably sure of good snow, you need somewhere with pretty high skiing. The Espace Killy, Val Thorens or Les Deux Alpes would all be good bets in France (just about within your 3 hours transfer from Geneva or (for L2A) Grenoble. The resorts closer to Geneva would not be so reliable for snow, if you want a change from Chamonix. Indeed the lower areas in Chamonix could be pretty rubbish that week too.
I wouldn't normally plan a big family holiday at Christmas (let alone the week before) but I'm doing so this year because it's the very last week my pregnant daughter will be able to fly. Am keeping fingers crossed for snow, but we'll be prepared to do other things if the snow is not good enough for enjoyable skiing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks so far, yes pretty unspecific i know but all views welcome, oldest 17 with girlfriend so lets not let them too long a lease! Skiing is most important famililar with most of what France can offer where is snow sure in Austria that might suit, was last season in the dolomites a freak or are there possibilities there?
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where is snow sure in Austria that might suit
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Decent glacier areas - not massive but see note below:
Soelden
Hintertux
Kaprun
Stubai
As mentioned by others, accommodation will be no problem - very quiet at that time. If you do wait until nearer the time to see what the snow's like and it's not fantastic, the glaciers will be excellent. You could hire a car and do a glacier area tour, finding accommodation as you go. We've done it and it was great. If you were to fly to Munich, you can also add the glacier at Garmisch, which is en-route to Austria.
Non-glacier areas - high and as snow sure as it gets for Austria:
St Anton/Lech/Zurs
Kuhtai (Resort is at 2000m but skiing a bit limited)
Obergurgl (big area excluding the two glaciers)
Soelden
Obertauern (not massively high but good snow record)
You could also consider Switzerland:
Saas Fee and Zermatt are both high and snowsure . Both have glaciers and a good early season snow record. Both are gorgeous villages and would be a lovely change from France for you. Both are within 3 hours of Geneva.
Then there's Italy:
Cervinia (linked to Zermatt) is another snowsure option. Sorry, no experience of early season Dolomites.
Food and drink wise, Austria and Italy are significantly cheaper than France and Switzerland is generally just cheaper.
Choices, choices!! 
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was last season in the dolomites a freak or are there possibilities there?
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I'd say the suggestions from mountainaddict would be a lot more reliable. Snow record in the Dolomites is pretty patchy. They do have a lot of cannons, which is OK if it's cold, but even then those ribbons of white don't do much for me. However, the Dolomites are absolutely stunningly beautiful, and the mix of villages speaking different languages in close proximity is charming, and very different.
Lech sounds wonderful - always been too expensive for me though. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, why do you love cutting down ski-amade and Austria quite so quickly?
The only season where sub 1400 was a problem was in 2006... when I believe there were much bigger problems over the Alps.
Biggest 'problem' in the ski-amade before xmas is that the ski busses are on a restricted service...
Height is only a contributory factor as location does play a wee part into things!
You do not need to keep up to glacier level in Austria in late December...
See where is best to fly from, quote some destination airports and then seewhat is on offer!
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flangesax, rubbish. I'm not cutting down Austria at all - I was agreeing with mountainaddict's recommendations, most of which were in Austria. It's not "late December", it's before Christmas. Suggesting a resort with a glacier in the vicinity is perfectly sensible. And maybe my memory is longer than yours.  We don't all automatically recommend our favourite areas to everybody.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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flangesax, I agree that height isn't just be be all and end all of snow sure resorts. Lech isn't particularly high by some standards but does seem to have it's own micro climate.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I agree that height isn't just be be all and end all of snow sure resorts.
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So do I. Our area in France is not high, but has a particularly good snow record, and Meteo France says that it is generally comparable to levels 300 - 400m higher in the Tarentaise. However, I would still NOT recommend it as snowsure for the week before Christmas. It's just daft to suggest that any one ski area has everything and given that the key requirement of the OP was "snowsure" I thought mountainaddict's suggestions were good ones. You are, of course, free to disagree.
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flangesax, another thought. I think any objective search of posts on Snowheads would find that you are FAR more frequently to be found "cutting down France" than I am to be found "cutting down Austria". Indeed, although I'd agree that there are more posts about French resorts than any others, as that is where most of us go (which must be annoying if you have commercial interests in Austria) there are also far more posts which are just generally critical about French resorts than there are about Austrian resorts. Indeed the only general criticism I remember about Austria is that the music is cheesy.
As for the Ski Amade, I've never been there, and don't remember making any cutting down comments about it.
Did you have any specific posts of mine in mind, or is this just more of the generalised "France versus Austria" rubbish?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pembsflyer, Paradiski, everything open fully operational from December 19th 2009. Ls arcs and La Plagne opening Decemeber 12th onwards
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Poster: A snowHead
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Tignes is good even early on. You get the Espace Killy without the extra expense of Val D'Isere (if you want to save money that is!).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just to be even-handed, I'd agree with the Tignes suggestion too - I went there the first week in December once, and although it was not a specially good year for snow, and not everything was open, there was still masses to choose from. I don't know about the nightlife; after a day of skiing, including a four hour lesson every morning, we just stayed in the hotel, had supper and a few drinks, and went to bed early.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Remember that the week before christmas, some resorts irritatingly open a very limited amount of lifts. Due to lower levels of demands and preserve the quality of snow, I assume?
Personally I would find an area that has a past record of opening a vast amount of lifts pre-christmas. As I would find it highly fustrating, being restricted to smaller than usual areas of the resort. This puts me going off at this certain time of year for the full whack price.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ah, but I'd rather share a modest range of empty pistes than a load of very crowded ones. But Christopher is right about limited piste opening (and ancillary services). Something to check - most resort websites should say when their area will be fully open - subject to snow, obviously.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, Nice to see the Espace Diamant on the tour! it was a shame it was raining though. The traditional chalets looked pretty through the gloom.
I find christmas week where I have been, queues are always avoidable. Just about being a bit wise. Get up the mountain before ski school, have an early lunch, ski normally busy areas at lunchtime when everyone is eating. Avoid busy links and home runs from 3.30 onwards by having a hot chocolate break or skiing fringe areas. Normally avoid lift queues and busy pistes easily.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w,
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Quote:
For the last two winters I've been to the Skiamade area in Austria and the snow has been good
It has indeed been good for the last two years but it remains the case that that is a dodgy week for snow in lower areas
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When I first read your comment about my post I thought you were speaking specifically about the Ski Amade area, and that you speaking for personal experience of the area.
Speaking from my experience I've enjoyed being in the Ski Amade region before Christmas. For more informed information look at the SCGB historical snow reports.
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I don't think many long term skiers, or observers of Alpine weather, would quarrel with the suggestion that early holidays (including Christmas) are more likely to be marred by lack of snow problems than are later ones. Most resorts have more snow in March than they do in December, most years. Early season can be dodgy for snow in higher areas as well, particularly when they are very rocky, and people are hoping to head off-piste. Some resorts where most pistes are on pasture (including a good number of French resorts and many Austrian resorts) can provide excellent piste skiing with fairly minimal snow cover. But the fact remains that it is a bit unusual, in historic terms, for the very early weeks to provide such super skiing as has happened several times recently.
Fortunately accommodation is generally so empty in mid-December that (despite the understandable blandishments of property owners or tour operators who like people to sign up early) folk going on holiday can - as suggested by the OP - afford to wait until they know how and where the snow is coming down. Sometimes more easterly areas - including Austria - get much better early snow than the French Alps. Sometimes Andorra gets great early snow. Sometimes it's all the other way round. Wait and see, then book accommodation at the last minute, is a wise policy for those able to avoid the peak school holiday weeks.
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pam w, Very true. We've had fabulous holidays before Christmas - and always booked at the very last minute. Last year we were in Avoriaz with great snow, 2007 we were the only skiers (nearly) in Lech and 2005 (I think) we bought no.1 & no.2 lift passes of the season in Megeve. My favourite skiing is always done before Christmas.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, But the question wasn't "when's the best time of year to go skiing in Europe?", it was "where's a good place to go for the week leading up to Christmas?".
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rich.ll, sure, and that's the question I've been focussing on, agreeing with some (not all) specific suggestions and recommending not booking accommodation yet. My more general point about whether this is the best time of year to go skiing was in direct response to posts implying that because the very small sample of the last two seasons has yielded good early snow it would make perfectly good sense to book accommodation now in a low resort.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Christopher wrote: |
pam w, Nice to see the Espace Diamant on the tour! it was a shame it was raining though. The traditional chalets looked pretty through the gloom.
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In case you missed it the television coverage is online at Le Tour de France 2009 sur L'Espace Diamant from maogan77 http://www.vimeo.com/5731246
my favourite part starts at 19:00 (but i am biased  ) with the overhead shot of the very windy road down to and across the bridge into flumet.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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scotkiwi, nice link, thanks.
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pembsflyer, If you're thinking Austria I would be tempted to fly into Innsbruck and most of Austria's best resorts are within an hour and a half - the Arlberg resorts (don't forget wee Stuben if you fancy some off piste and quiet nights), Ischgl etc, Serfaus, Solden, Obergurgl - all with great snow records despite their lack of height. That area west of Innsbruck seems to get the biggest dumps of snow in Austria and arguably, the Alps
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You know it makes sense.
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pembsflyer, I should think you'll have a lovely time in any of the Austrian resorts already recommended, and it's true that you can normally ski at lower levels on a smaller base in Austria because it's more grassy underneath. However if you do decide to do France again LDA has everything you'er looking for, but I should point out that the off piste might be a bit dodgy so early in the season wherever you go. It was great last year though - check out the snow reports.
Now before I get caned - I've only mentioned LDA or posted on here because others have already mentioned France ... I was not going to suggest it in response to the OP.
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